Will immigration cause the end of America as we no it today?

[SgtRock]

Before answering this question please watch the video Immigration Gumballs I have posted below. It is a 9:35 minutes long. After watching this video I can say that indeed we will become a third world nation. The solution to third world poverty is improving economic conditions of third world nations. America cannot continue taking in immigrants legal or illegal at the current rate. If you disagree with the premise please explain why ~ Sgt Rock

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=5ez3GmDgknk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Kandahar]

America cannot continue taking in immigrants legal or illegal at the current rate. If you disagree with the premise please explain why ~ Sgt Rock

Because our country has been taking in immigrants for centuries, and there are still jobs here. The net migration rate is only slightly above average by historical standards. There's hardly a crisis.

 

[Navy Pride]

There is a definite possibility that could happen especially giving Mexicans amnesty...

 

[SgtRock]

Because our country has been taking in immigrants for centuries, and there are still jobs here. The net migration rate is only slightly above average by historical standards. There's hardly a crisis.

Did you watch the video?

 

[SgtRock]

Please do not vote unless you have watched the video from begining to end. Thankyou, Sgt Rock

 

[26 X World Champs]

There is a definite possibility that could happen especially giving Mexicans amnesty...

More than 40% of undocumented aliens are not Mexican.

I'm first generation American and unless I'm dreaming America is a country of immigrants.

The usual suspects are writing their anti-American ethnic hate posts just like clockwork.

 

[bhkad]

Because our country has been taking in immigrants for centuries, and there are still jobs here. The net migration rate is only slightly above average by historical standards. There's hardly a crisis.

You hadn't watched the video when you posted that.

 

[bhkad]

More than 40% of undocumented aliens are not Mexican.

I'm first generation American and unless I'm dreaming America is a country of immigrants.

The usual suspects are writing their anti-American ethnic hate posts just like clockwork.

Have you watched the video?

And if you have watched it and still say that then you don't really care about America's well being if you know the costs being incurred as a result of current immigration levels.

And if you don't care about America's well being why should any American give a fvck about you?

 

[Inuyasha]

It's a good video and hard to objectively disagree with weather you are right left or center. However historu has suffered (yes suffered) populationshifts before and it has remade history, the maps and the social structure of the enite world. Frighteningly I do not think that can be controlled by legislation. That would be similat to trying to make a law against floods or earthquakes or hurricanes.

 

[SgtRock]

There is a definite possibility that could happen especially giving Mexicans amnesty...

This is not about country of orgin, race, or ethnicity.

 

[SgtRock]

More than 40% of undocumented aliens are not Mexican.

I'm first generation American and unless I'm dreaming America is a country of immigrants.

The usual suspects are writing their anti-American ethnic hate posts just like clockwork.

Please stay on subject, this is not about hate speech. Did you watch the video? What do you think about it? ~ Sgt Rock

 

[Kandahar]

OK, I watched the video. Not because I thought it would have any good points, but merely to refute the arguments.

1. Of course America has more immigration in absolute terms than it ever has before. That's because America's population is greater than ever before, and can therefore absorb more immigrants. The RATE of migration is nothing off-the-charts though. It's only slightly higher-than-average by historical standards.

2. He chose an arbitrary date (1970) to begin making his comparison. If he had backed up a little farther, he'd see that we have had immigration on this scale before, and there wasn't any shortage of jobs.

3. He used the strawman argument that we need to absorb immigrations to prevent Latin American countries from "exploding." No one with a brain seriously makes that argument in the first place. We should absorb immigrants because it helps our economy, helps the immigrants, helps American workers, and helps American consumers.

4. His red/green chart is somewhat misleading, because it's only the rate of INCREASE. Not the actual change in population. The same thing with his comment that we need to build twice as many schools...while technically correct, he knew that most people would hear "We need to spend twice as much on schools," which is not true.

5. I agree with him that we need to help developing countries help themselves, so that there won't be a need for as many people to immigrate. But that doesn't change the fact that immigration is good for our own economy.

6. He kept talking about how this would destroy the "social fabric" of America, without explaining what that meant or how immigration would destroy it. It's been my experience that "social fabric" is just a code phrase for "we don't want the wetback culture in this country." If I'm wrong, maybe somebody could tell me what exactly that phrase means.


If you folks who live in California and Texas don't want immigrants, we'll take our fair share of them when I'm governor of Ohio.

 

[SgtRock]

Before answering this question please watch the video Immigration Gumballs I have posted below. It is a 9:35 minutes long. After watching this video I can say that indeed we will become a third world nation. The solution to third world poverty is improving economic conditions of third world nations. America cannot continue taking in immigrants legal or illegal at the current rate. If you disagree with the premise please explain why ~ Sgt Rock

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=5ez3GmDgknk[/YOUTUBE]

I have done some research on the gentleman in the video. Roy Beck is Director of NumbersUSA and author of The Case Against Immigration: The Moral, Economic, Social, and Environmental Reasons for Reducing U.S. Immigration Back to Traditional Levels.

Before anyone jumps the gun on this and assumes he is a racist or a bigot. Go to the site and read. I feel much the same way he does. I am afterall married to an Immigrant. The following comes from numbersusa.com

"No" to Immigrant Bashing

by Roy Beck
Executive Director of NumbersUSA.com


Nothing about this website should be construed as advocating hostile actions or feelings toward immigrant Americans. (Even illegal aliens deserve humane treatment as they are detected, detained and deported.)

Unfortunately, to write about problems of immigration is to risk seeming to attack immigrants themselves. Even worse is the risk of inadvertently encouraging somebody else to show hostility toward the foreign-born as a group.

I encounter too many immigrants and children of immigrants in daily affairs where I live in northern Virginia to take those risks lightly. From five continents, members of immigrant families have passed through my home, especially in the persons of friends of my sons. They are among the physical therapy patients of my wife; they are participants in youth activities which I lead; they are friends at my church, which has received national recognition for creating local service to new immigrants; they are neighbors; they are business clerks and owners where I trade.

Thus, as is the case for millions of other Americans, I have a very personal stake in not wanting to provoke hostility or discrimination toward the foreign-born who already are living among us.

But our kindly feelings toward immigrants must no longer stifle public discussion about the effects of immigration numbers.

To talk about changing immigration numbers is to say nothing against the individual immigrants in this country. Rather, it is about deciding how many foreign citizens living in their own countries right now should be allowed to immigrate in the future.

None of this is to suggest that no immigrants are scoundrels or contribute to problems of immigration because of their bad personal behavior. It is not unfair, nor does it constitute immigrant bashing, to criticize the behavior of specific immigrants who violate our laws or otherwise behave in a manner unworthy of guests who have been invited into this country.

It IS immigrant bashing, however, to ascribe those bad characteristics to whole groups of people based on their ethnicity or foreign-born status. All of us should be careful of the language we use so as not to inadvertently appear to be making such negative generalizations.

Not only is it ethically wrong to engage in such stereotyping, it is tactically short-sighted. There is much to suggest that most immigrants already among us would support reductions in immigration numbers. The reasons are not surprising. Virtually any reduction designed to help native-born Americans would be even more beneficial to foreign-born Americans. That is why so many immigrants are supporters of NumbersUSA.com.

Perhaps the greatest "immigrant bashers" are those Members of Congress who refuse to look at the abysmal conditions of so many immigrant Americans and who every year insist on adding more than a million more immigrants into their occupations, schools and communities.

 

[SgtRock]

I have done some research on the gentleman in the video. Roy Beck is Director of NumbersUSA and author of The Case Against Immigration: The Moral, Economic, Social, and Environmental Reasons for Reducing U.S. Immigration Back to Traditional Levels.

Before anyone jumps the gun on this and assumes he is a racist or a bigot. Go to the site and read. I feel much the same way he does. I am afterall married to an Immigrant. The following comes from numbersusa.com

"No" to Immigrant Bashing

by Roy Beck
Executive Director of NumbersUSA.com


Nothing about this website should be construed as advocating hostile actions or feelings toward immigrant Americans. (Even illegal aliens deserve humane treatment as they are detected, detained and deported.)

Unfortunately, to write about problems of immigration is to risk seeming to attack immigrants themselves. Even worse is the risk of inadvertently encouraging somebody else to show hostility toward the foreign-born as a group.

I encounter too many immigrants and children of immigrants in daily affairs where I live in northern Virginia to take those risks lightly. From five continents, members of immigrant families have passed through my home, especially in the persons of friends of my sons. They are among the physical therapy patients of my wife; they are participants in youth activities which I lead; they are friends at my church, which has received national recognition for creating local service to new immigrants; they are neighbors; they are business clerks and owners where I trade.

Thus, as is the case for millions of other Americans, I have a very personal stake in not wanting to provoke hostility or discrimination toward the foreign-born who already are living among us.

But our kindly feelings toward immigrants must no longer stifle public discussion about the effects of immigration numbers.

To talk about changing immigration numbers is to say nothing against the individual immigrants in this country. Rather, it is about deciding how many foreign citizens living in their own countries right now should be allowed to immigrate in the future.

None of this is to suggest that no immigrants are scoundrels or contribute to problems of immigration because of their bad personal behavior. It is not unfair, nor does it constitute immigrant bashing, to criticize the behavior of specific immigrants who violate our laws or otherwise behave in a manner unworthy of guests who have been invited into this country.

It IS immigrant bashing, however, to ascribe those bad characteristics to whole groups of people based on their ethnicity or foreign-born status. All of us should be careful of the language we use so as not to inadvertently appear to be making such negative generalizations.

Not only is it ethically wrong to engage in such stereotyping, it is tactically short-sighted. There is much to suggest that most immigrants already among us would support reductions in immigration numbers. The reasons are not surprising. Virtually any reduction designed to help native-born Americans would be even more beneficial to foreign-born Americans. That is why so many immigrants are supporters of NumbersUSA.com.

Perhaps the greatest "immigrant bashers" are those Members of Congress who refuse to look at the abysmal conditions of so many immigrant Americans and who every year insist on adding more than a million more immigrants into their occupations, schools and communities.

Something else that I found usefull on numbersusa.com. You can find out what your congress members voting record is as it pertains to immigration ~ Sgt Rock

 

[bhkad]

OK, I watched the video. Not because I thought it would have any good points, but merely to refute the arguments.

1. Of course America has more immigration in absolute terms than it ever has before. That's because America's population is greater than ever before, and can therefore absorb more immigrants. The RATE of migration is nothing off-the-charts though. It's only slightly higher-than-average by historical standards.

That's really an extraordinary statement, as someone who married an illegal immigrant and lived among illegal immigrants, saying that because we have a larger population that we can absorb more immigrants, I don't think I have ever heard that before, and I have heard some pretty absurd explanations to justify increasing our immigration quotas.

I would ask the poster to withdraw that comment and tell us what he really meant by it.

 

[Kandahar]

That's really an extraordinary statement, as someone who married an illegal immigrant and lived among illegal immigrants, saying that because we have a larger population that we can absorb more immigrants, I don't think I have ever heard that before, and I have heard some pretty absurd explanations to justify increasing our immigration quotas.

I would ask the poster to withdraw that comment and tell us what he really meant by it.

:rofl
Thanks Rudy.

Say that there are 100 people living in the United States. If we allow 10 more to immigrate, the immigration rate is 10%. Correct?

Now say that there are 1,000 people living in the United States. If we allow 20 more to immigrate, the immigration rate is only 2%.

Yet by the logic here, the immigration in the SECOND case would have a bigger impact than the immigration in the first case. That is patently false. The number to look at is the net migration RATE, not the net migration. The absolute number of immigrants is fairly meaningless.

 

[bhkad]

:rofl
Thanks Rudy.

Say that there are 100 people living in the United States. If we allow 10 more to immigrate, the immigration rate is 10%. Correct?

Now say that there are 1,000 people living in the United States. If we allow 20 more to immigrate, the immigration rate is only 2%.

Yet by the logic here, the immigration in the SECOND case would have a bigger impact than the immigration in the first case. That is patently false. The number to look at is the net migration RATE, not the net migration. The absolute number of immigrants is fairly meaningless.

A new school EVERY SINGLE DAY in California needs to be built because of current quotas.

 

[Kandahar]

A new school EVERY SINGLE DAY in California needs to be built because of current quotas.

And this proves what? That kids need education?

 

[bhkad]

And this proves what? That kids need education?

Yes. And each new immigrant causes a new school to be built, dammit! :mrgreen:

 

[SgtRock]

:rofl
Thanks Rudy.

Say that there are 100 people living in the United States. If we allow 10 more to immigrate, the immigration rate is 10%. Correct?

Now say that there are 1,000 people living in the United States. If we allow 20 more to immigrate, the immigration rate is only 2%.

Yet by the logic here, the immigration in the SECOND case would have a bigger impact than the immigration in the first case. That is patently false. The number to look at is the net migration RATE, not the net migration. The absolute number of immigrants is fairly meaningless.

ok, using your logic, lets say the united states is a square city block. In the first case you would have 110 people living in that block. In the second case there would be 1020 people living in that block. Which is going to have the bigger impact on infrastructure, Schools, the enviorment etc.

If the second case is your answer than the absolute number of immigrants is paramount.

By the way, I like the way you approached this with an open mind.

"OK, I watched the video. Not because I thought it would have any good points, but merely to refute the arguments." ~ Kandahar enemy combatant

 

[SgtRock]

Kandahar, where did you go. I was expecting a rebuttal. :mrgreen:

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

More than 40% of undocumented aliens are not Mexican.

I'm first generation American and unless I'm dreaming America is a country of immigrants.

The usual suspects are writing their anti-American ethnic hate posts just like clockwork.

_________
"America is a country of immigrants." You are 100% correct sir!
But, you may be just dreaming because you seem to be mixing up ***LEGAL immigrants*** with ***ILLEGAL immigrants.***
_______
Happy dreams!!!

 

[Gardener]

_________
"America is a country of immigrants." You are 100% correct sir!
But, you may be just dreaming because you seem to be mixing up ***LEGAL immigrants*** with ***ILLEGAL immigrants.***
_______
Happy dreams!!!

Or perhaps it is you who confuse the two.The title of your post most certainly did not say "will illegal Immigration cause the end of America as we know it",as it merely said "Will immigration cause the end of America as we know it"

 

[bhkad]

It's a good video and hard to objectively disagree with weather you are right left or center. However historu has suffered (yes suffered) populationshifts before and it has remade history, the maps and the social structure of the enite world. Frighteningly I do not think that can be controlled by legislation. That would be similat to trying to make a law against floods or earthquakes or hurricanes.

It's interesting that while the government thinks it should be able to and indeed can control the numbers of people who come into this country, you think it is an uncontrollable phenomenon like an act of God or nature.

Very interesting.

 

[Gardener]

Or perhaps it is you who confuse the two.The title of your post most certainly did not say "will illegal Immigration cause the end of America as we know it",as it merely said "Will immigration cause the end of America as we know it"

Oops -- my mistake.

I had the wrong sgt. My apologies.