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Will Epstein be Trump's downfall?

Will Epstein be Trump's downfall?


  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .
You seem to assume I am holding him to a different standard because I am a conservative.
No, that is not an assumption (nor my basis). That is a surmise.
In order for it to be true that I am holding him to a different standard, who is the baseline for this standard to be compared against?
Anyone else? Perhaps any partisan of a different persuasion? Just a thought.
Emmit Till is entirely relevant
Still not relevant or persuasive.
the ninth circuit has an overturn rate of nearly 80% for cases that make it before the Supreme Court.
Now you're in my wheelhouse. I should acknowledge that I'm a recently-retired lawyer, former Assistant Attorney General - specializing in constitutional law - prosecutor, and defense attorney, and took many cases through the appellate courts (particularly the Ninth Circuit). I say all of that because your assertion indicates a lack of experience with the appellate process. The vast, vast, vast majority of Ninth Circuit cases are never challenged or reviewed. Most of the cases overturned (and I doubt that figure, but I've not researched it) were not incorrectly decided on the existing law. The problem is the current SC majority's penchant for overturning existing precedents. Maybe you've heard about that?

Continued...
 
Jonathan Turley ... suggested the case was more about political targeting than a clear-cut felony, pointing out that the prosecution’s reliance on uncharged crimes...was a novel and potentially overreaching legal strategy.
Those words do a lot of work, here. Turley's (I should have known. That hurts your credibility) analysis tends to be far beyond his area of expertise, and his views are decidedly libertarian and quite outside of the mainstream, but let me not digress.
David Sklansky (Stanford Law School): In a Stanford Legal podcast, Sklansky noted that the New York case is unusual because falsifying business records is typically a misdemeanor unless tied to another crime, and the prosecution’s theory about what that other crime was (e.g., campaign finance or tax violations) has been "a little convoluted."
But not unsupported or incorrect. Again, this smacks of special pleading. Just because a particular application of the criminal code is unusual, or novel, does not make it inappropriate. I've had to be creative in how I charged crimes, but ensured that they were legally correct and supported by the law and evidence. Successfully, I might add. That's routine for prosecutors. The judge in the case, and the appellate court, agreed that the charges were not unfounded and could proceed to trial. The jury understood the charges and convicted him of the crime. The judge confirmed that conviction.
Jed Shugerman (Boston University School of Law): Shugerman has critiqued the New York case specifically, arguing in outlets like Slate that the legal theory behind elevating falsification to felonies was "unprecedented and shaky." He expressed concern that the prosecution’s reliance on federal campaign finance law as the "other crime" was problematic, as it’s unclear whether state prosecutors can enforce federal law in this way.
It's clear now. You have yet to convince me this is not special pleading. All of this commentary was before the case went to trial. These issues are now settled.
If your evidence that he has committed sexual crimes is so rock solid, why has he never been convicted of these crimes in a criminal court?
Hundreds of thousands of sexual crimes go unprosecuted simply because they are not identified in time, or the victim doesn't want to relive the trauma publicly. That's extremely weak sauce. It's like Gislaine Maxwell's equivocal assertion, "I never saw Trump participate", or the canard "I can produce a hundred witnesses who didn't see him commit the crime." It means nothing; it has no legal relevance. It's a fallacy.
Falsifying business records is not a sexual crime.
But is a crime of moral turpitude. He was convicted.
I earlier referenced the innocence project being involved with exonerating over 500 people who were falsely accused of committing crimes, (often sex crimes), what evidence do you have that I would hold someone else to a different standard for the same issue?
I have none that you would. None. Again, you persist in this fallacy: "I can produce a hundred witnesses who didn't see him commit the crime." It means nothing; it has no legal relevance.

Here's the problem: Your entire presentation is a challenge to prove a negative. I can only surmise based upon what you have presented. That, however, has been wholly unconvincing. I have a hard time believing that it is NOT special pleading, based solely upon what you have presented, and what I have provided in response. The sum makes accepting your claims at face value extremely difficult. It boils down to, "trust me on this". I have no basis to do so, and a lot of reasons not to.
 
If 91 federal indictments, convictions in two civil cases, two other cases for election fraud and interference still pending, the Russia Hoax, and probably much more haven’t hurt Trump what makes you think whatever may or may not be in the Epstein files will? Pro-Trumpers will still be pro-Trumpers, anti-Trumpers will still be anti-Trumpers. Whichever column one falls into, there’s no changing these folks minds about Trump. You do have 10% or so of all Americans who aren’t either pro nor anti-Trump. Maybe the Epstein files will move a few of these off the fence or again, maybe not.
Yeah I don't think there's going to be much on this about Trump. But we've gotten over him being called fascist I'm Nazi sexual assault or which he's none of these things. And a felon which he is only on the basis of a rather questionable court case.
 
Yeah I don't think there's going to be much on this about Trump. But we've gotten over him being called fascist I'm Nazi sexual assault or which he's none of these things. And a felon which he is only on the basis of a rather questionable court case.
I don’t know what’s in the Epstein files and no one else does either. It’s all pure speculation and hope. But those files certainly give us a lot to talk about and to speculate up the ying yang.
 
With the Epstein debacle dominating the news for over a month, now, and with no end in sight, the question becomes quite relevant.
That worthless mother****er Trump has better teflon skin than Reagan could ever have hoped for.
 
Apparently almost half of GOP would still support Trump if he were officially implicated in Epstein’s sex trafficking activities.


Think about it.

Half the people on this forum who support Trump, and half the Trump supporters you meet, half of them, half, would still vote for Trump if they knew he was implicated in Epstein’s sex trafficking crimes.
 
You’re choosing to pretend not to know. But we all know. He admitted knowing Epstein was into young girls. He was close friends with Epstein. His “spa” employee went to Epstein and he’s still bitter about it.

Do you know anyone who owns multiple golf courses? Do you think they actually learn the names of their minimum wage towel folding employees? Don’t play stupid, it’s sad to see.

You’re just pretending to not see the obvious truth because it’s too painful. But it doesn’t have to be painful, it’s fine. Y’all got conned by a con man. You only compound the humiliation by continuing to pretend.
Still looking for hard evidence if you wish to indict the president for having sex with underage females.
Innuendo does not represent hard and fast evidence.
 
With the Epstein debacle dominating the news for over a month, now, and with no end in sight, the question becomes quite relevant.
What does "downfall" mean?

He's not going to be impeached over this.

Republican elected officials aren't going to stop kissing his ass 24/7 over this.

If Republicans lose the House in 2026, this probably won't be a key factor.
 
What does "downfall" mean?

He's not going to be impeached over this.

Republican elected officials aren't going to stop kissing his ass 24/7 over this.

If Republicans lose the House in 2026, this probably won't be a key factor.
You're right. The Epstein fiasco isn't needed for the Democrats to impeach Trump.
All they need is a good looking 'ham sandwich' to justify impeaching him again.
That's enough to tie him up so he has to pay attention to the charges instead of tending to the business of leading the country.
 
It won't even take two years. They've started calling. Maxwell a victim in various rw media. Trump voters do not care, never have.

The economy is what will bring Trump down because independents are peeling off like Noam's caked on make up.
How could anyone present Maxwell as a victim?

She is guilty!
 
Trump was found guilty of campaign FELONIES for using money he wasn't suppose to and covering it up. The paying off, yeah, that was a misdemeanor and had he left it to that he wouldn't of had the problems, but he took the money from the wrong pocket [his campaign finance account] and then covered it up. THAT was the felony.
What is confusing about that?

nobody would have been went after on all that except Trump - it was weaponizing the judicial system in a liberal Democrat state/district and you're right, they finally got him on felonies

and he still got more votes than worthless Kamala because all that was seen for what it was - is there anything confusing about that ?
 
When the truth comes out, don't be shocked if Trump goes on another revenge tour with the ones who have gone after him. The haters think it is OK to hunt him, but they don't like it when Trump hunts them back.
 
Nothing has sunk him…. He wont leave until he dies.
 
When the truth comes out, don't be shocked if Trump goes on another revenge tour with the ones who have gone after him. The haters think it is OK to hunt him, but they don't like it when Trump hunts them back.
When do the victims get revenge on Trump?
 
You might want to check with the Clintons for some clarity on that question.
The Clintons know when Epstein’s victims will get revenge on Trump for his participation in raping them?
 
Still looking for hard evidence if you wish to indict the president for having sex with underage females.
Innuendo does not represent hard and fast evidence.
So you’re going to give Trump a blank check to illegally conceal evidence as long as he leaves enough room for doubt to satisfy your personal denial.
 
Doh! Damn activist judge, calling this shit for what it is:

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So you’re going to give Trump a blank check to illegally conceal evidence as long as he leaves enough room for doubt to satisfy your personal denial.
They don’t even need it. MAGA has already agreed with itself Trump is clean. They have to.
 
Apparently almost half of GOP would still support Trump if he were officially implicated in Epstein’s sex trafficking activities.


Think about it.

Half the people on this forum who support Trump, and half the Trump supporters you meet, half of them, half, would still vote for Trump if they knew he was implicated in Epstein’s sex trafficking crimes.
But not a cult.
 
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