Will Democrats Be Able To Defend Their Own Medicare Cuts?

[cpwill]

As I've pointed out a number of times here, (usually with no response), the Obama administrations current plan cuts more from Medicare than the Ryan Plan does. No one currently salivating over attacking Ryan on Medicare seems to realize that doing so leaves them horribly vulnerable to that retort. Apparently even the usually erudite Rachel Maddow didn't either.


Are Democrats going to be able to defend Obama's Medicare cuts with the same vigor as Republicans will be able to defend the Ryan-Wyden plan?

 

[cpwill]

 

[IndepCentristMA]

As I've pointed out a number of times here, (usually with no response), the Obama administrations current plan cuts more from Medicare than the Ryan Plan does. No one currently salivating over attacking Ryan on Medicare seems to realize that doing so leaves them horribly vulnerable to that retort. Apparently even the usually erudite Rachel Maddow didn't either.

Are Democrats going to be able to defend Obama's Medicare cuts with the same vigor as Republicans will be able to defend the Ryan-Wyden plan?

I hate to be the pessimist on this one... but, I think the Dems can sell anything to fellow Dems, and they just accept it as fact, no matter how bogus it is... and then tell each other over and over again, until they all think its reality...

This election is not gonna hinge on anyone selling anyone plan to anyone...

It's gonna hinge on voters going to the booth and voting on what hurts their wallet most...

Obama is pushing tax hikes, he has created massive amounts of debt, he has presided over a stagnant economy...

The rising 8.3% unemployment reflects how many are out of work, are scheduled to lose their job, or are working jobs well below their paygrade just to scrape by... and the workforce participation rate has taken an unprecidented steep 2% dive once Obama's policies kicked in...

Prices have gone up everywhere, and consumer confidence is dwindling again... and nowhere is it most evident than with gasoline prices upwards of $3.50/gal in most areas of the country... debilitating to families who need to get to work, run errands, take kids to school... additionally those fuel prices hamper business that rely on fleet, delivery, or transportation to conduct that business...

People will be voting their wallets come November... and it won't be to choose Obama or Romney... it'll be to vote someone other than Obama... to change things up...

 

[Diogenes]

Are Democrats going to be able to defend Obama's Medicare cuts with the same vigor as Republicans will be able to defend the Ryan-Wyden plan?

No. The Dems only hope is to vigorously lie about the alternative plans.

 

[VanceMack]

They have to cut medicare...because...of George Bush.

 

[IndepCentristMA]

They have to cut medicare...because...of George Bush.

It is afterall the only reason we breath oxygen...

 

[Diogenes]

They have to cut medicare...because...of George Bush.

Right. And the earthquake that damaged the Washington Monument a while back was caused by a heretofore undiscovered geologic fault, which has now been christened "Bush's Fault"...

 

[AdamT]

The Democrat plan does not cut Medicare benefits. Rather, it cuts payments to providers. Of course that is unrealistic as providers will increasingly respond by refusing to see Medicare patients and by limiting care. And realistically, the cuts will be rolled back in significant part for that reason.

And guess what? Ryan's plan includes the same cuts. :lol:

 

[VanceMack]

The Democrat plan does not cut Medicare benefits. Rather, it cuts payments to providers. Of course that is unrealistic as providers will increasingly respond by refusing to see Medicare patients and by limiting care. And realistically, the cuts will be rolled back in significant part for that reason.

And guess what? Ryan's plan includes the same cuts. :lol:

Which makes people that attack Ryan over said cuts look like partisan douchebags...right? That IS kinda the point. How do you defend one while attacking the other without looking like a complete douchebag. Answer...you dont.

 

[IndepCentristMA]

The Democrat plan does not cut Medicare benefits. Rather, it cuts payments to providers. Of course that is unrealistic as providers will increasingly respond by refusing to see Medicare patients and by limiting care. And realistically, the cuts will be rolled back in significant part for that reason.

And guess what? Ryan's plan includes the same cuts. :lol:

LMFAO... Talk about jumping into a conversation without knowing what it's about...

That's EXACTLY what he said in the OP... That the Democrats will have to defend the fact that their plan cuts Medicare, TOO... Eventhough they've been heavy about criticizing it in the Ryan plan for it...

 

[AdamT]

LMFAO... Talk about jumping into a conversation without knowing what it's about...

That's EXACTLY what he said in the OP... That the Democrats will have to defend the fact that their plan cuts Medicare, TOO... Eventhough they've been heavy about criticizing it in the Ryan plan for it...

Yes, I realize that. Hard for you to understand, but there are actually people who will admit when "their side" has a problem.

The bottom line, IMO, is that the Dems do not have a big issue in the NEW Ryan Medicare plan, which doesn't really solve the problem, but also doesn't throw old people under the bus like Ryan's original plan.

It's the rest of the Ryan budget that provides all the ammunition Dems will need.

 

[VanceMack]

Yes, I realize that. Hard for you to understand, but there are actually people who will admit when "their side" has a problem.

The bottom line, IMO, is that the Dems do not have a big issue in the NEW Ryan Medicare plan, which doesn't really solve the problem, but also doesn't throw old people under the bus like Ryan's original plan.

It's the rest of the Ryan budget that provides all the ammunition Dems will need.

How many democrats have voted for the "Obama Budget"? For that matter, when was the last time the Senate passed a 'budget'? Since the 'super-committee failed miserably to come up with so much as a few trillion in cuts over 10 years, its pretty hard to bash someone that is actually putting forward viable ideas. Well...I take that back. People will have no problem bashing the ideas...they just have no answers themselves.

 

[Bronson]

The Democrat plan does not cut Medicare benefits. Rather, it cuts payments to providers. Of course that is unrealistic as providers will increasingly respond by refusing to see Medicare patients and by limiting care. And realistically, the cuts will be rolled back in significant part for that reason.

And guess what? Ryan's plan includes the same cuts. :lol:

Wrong

Obama has already robbed from Medicare. Ryan's plan will save it.

Where are Joe Biden's plans? Where are Obama's plans? They have none. All you can do is try and objectify your opponents because you belong to a Hope and Change cult no better than Scientology.

Yes, I realize that. Hard for you to understand, but there are actually people who will admit when "their side" has a problem.

The bottom line, IMO, is that the Dems do not have a big issue in the NEW Ryan Medicare plan, which doesn't really solve the problem, but also doesn't throw old people under the bus like Ryan's original plan.

It's the rest of the Ryan budget that provides all the ammunition Dems will need.

You're so transparently shallow and inept. You have no points. You have no facts. You have no substance.

All you can do are these cheap little games, offering no facts while pretending your nonsensical cult speak is too brilliant "for everyone to understand"

You're lost in your own delusion. Obama has stolen 700B from Medicare. Do you support that?

 

[hazlnut]

As I've pointed out a number of times here, (usually with no response), the Obama administrations current plan cuts more from Medicare than the Ryan Plan does. No one currently salivating over attacking Ryan on Medicare seems to realize that doing so leaves them horribly vulnerable to that retort. Apparently even the usually erudite Rachel Maddow didn't either.


Are Democrats going to be able to defend Obama's Medicare cuts with the same vigor as Republicans will be able to defend the Ryan-Wyden plan?

The Ryan plan is to end medicare as we know it, so you're comparing apples to oranges.

THE FACTS: You could fill an arena with all the details left out in this statement. Ryan’s reputation as a fiscal conservative is built on a budget plan that would overhaul the Medicare program and introduce a voucher-like plan that future retirees could use to buy private health insurance. Whether that results in a better or worse situation for Medicare recipients is a matter of debate. But under Ryan’s plan, traditional Medicare would no longer be the health insurance mainstay, just one of many competing options.

 

[AdamT]

Wrong

Obama has already robbed from Medicare. Ryan's plan will save it.

Where are Joe Biden's plans? Where are Obama's plans? They have none. All you can do is try and objectify your opponents because you belong to a Hope and Change cult no better than Scientology.

Both plans, as they stand, will "save" Medicare by cutting service. I think the Wyden-Ryan exchange idea is a good addition, but it's not going to provide the savings necessary to avoid service cuts. There are only two options for maintaining the current level of service without bankrupting the government: raise taxes or nationalize the entire health care system.

 

[Diogenes]

... For that matter, when was the last time the Senate passed a 'budget'? ...

Way, way back in ancient times, before anybody had even heard of an iPad...

 

[azgreg]

The Ryan plan is to end medicare as we know it, so you're comparing apples to oranges.

Wouldn't reforming any program "End that program as we now know it".

 

[Bronson]

Both plans, as they stand, will "save" Medicare by cutting service. I think the Wyden-Ryan exchange idea is a good addition, but it's not going to provide the savings necessary to avoid service cuts. There are only two options for maintaining the current level of service without bankrupting the government: raise taxes or nationalize the entire health care system.

You're not even debating reality. Obamacare has massively raised taxes on the poor and middle class. Obama has already robbed from Medicare and has offered no plan to save it. He has spent 5 trillion in 4 years and is sitting at 15% Real Unemployment

Who are you to claim what the options are? We tried it your way over the last 4 years. Guess what? Massive failure. Why would anyone continue to listen to you? You're talking about saving? Medicare has already been robbed and the HHS Secretary has already admitted it.

Shimkus Questions Sebelius on Budget Gimmicks in the Health Care Law - YouTube

 

[AdamT]

You're not even debating reality. Obamacare has massively raised taxes on the poor and middle class.

Talk about a complete flight from reality! :lamo

 

[IndepCentristMA]

Both plans, as they stand, will "save" Medicare by cutting service. I think the Wyden-Ryan exchange idea is a good addition, but it's not going to provide the savings necessary to avoid service cuts. There are only two options for maintaining the current level of service without bankrupting the government: raise taxes or nationalize the entire health care system.

That's the Democratic solution to everything... nationalize it AND raise taxes... (god only knows how you think they'd nationalize heatlhcare without raising taxes)...

To the rest of us, we see no need to nationalize programs... we need to cut the size and scope of the federal government... and the problem with medicare and similar programs is they're just that... half-assed attempts to nationalize something... The government needs to get out of the healthcare business... The more the government gets involved, the higher the costs go...

 

[Bronson]

Talk about a complete flight from reality! :lamo

Do you support 700B having been stolen from Medicare by Obama?

Yes or No

 

[AdamT]

That's the Democratic solution to everything... nationalize it AND raise taxes... (god only knows how you think they'd nationalize heatlhcare without raising taxes)...

You're not familiar with the difference between "or" and "and"? Tricky concept....

 

[Samhain]

Wouldn't reforming any program "End that program as we now know it".

Of course, and there in lies the rub. The Obama campaign will make that statement, "as we now know it", to deflect the conversation away from entitlement reform, especially since Obama called for it in both the 2008 campaign and during his first year in office, and to play into fear. Oh noes! Change my Medicare!??!?!?

Of course, they don't mention that the Medicare surplus will run out in 2025, and will only be able to cover 2/3rds of obligations by 2045, but make sure you don't want to change a single thing. Of course, don't mention that they Ryan plan for Medicare was co-authoried by Democratic Senator Ron Wyden, and that they plan allows for only those under 54 years of age to opt, which is duh, optional, out of traditional Medicare and get vouchers. Sounds like letting the individual have a choice....

That's pretty much all Obama has to campaign on at this time. He has no ideas, nothing new to offer. All he has is fear.

 

[Kreton]

Are Democrats going to be able to defend Obama's Medicare cuts with the same vigor as Republicans will be able to defend the Ryan-Wyden plan?

No. What they will do it point out Ryan's plan whenever they are asked about it.

The Democrat plan does not cut Medicare benefits. Rather, it cuts payments to providers. Of course that is unrealistic as providers will increasingly respond by refusing to see Medicare patients and by limiting care. And realistically, the cuts will be rolled back in significant part for that reason.

And guess what? Ryan's plan includes the same cuts. :lol:

I rest my case.

 

[Born Free]

Yes, I realize that. Hard for you to understand, but there are actually people who will admit when "their side" has a problem.

The bottom line, IMO, is that the Dems do not have a big issue in the NEW Ryan Medicare plan, which doesn't really solve the problem, but also doesn't throw old people under the bus like Ryan's original plan.

It's the rest of the Ryan budget that provides all the ammunition Dems will need.

Maybe you can enlighten me with one post of your yours that ever critized Obama