• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Will Americans vote to scrap the EC?

Will there be an amendment to change or remove the Electoral College?

  • Total voters
    59
RetiredUSN said:
The results weren't disastrous.

The system worked as designed.
Click to expand...

Actually it did NOT work as the Founders designed. This is from Federalist #68 written by Alexander Hamilton explaining why the EC is necessary

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68

These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.
Click to expand...

Despite all the publicity about Russian interference in our election on behalf of one particular candidate - not a single states Electors discussed that reality when they met in December to cast their votes. Not a single one.

It failed and it failed miserably and the Electors did NOT do their job as Hamilton viewed it.
 
haymarket said:
Actually it did NOT work as the Founders designed. This is from Federalist #68 written by Alexander Hamilton explaining why the EC is necessary

The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68



Despite all the publicity about Russian interference in our election on behalf of one particular candidate - not a single states Electors discussed that reality when they met in December to cast their votes. Not a single one.

It failed and it failed miserably and the Electors did NOT do their job as Hamilton viewed it.
Click to expand...

The federalist #68 is not law.

The election was won within the law........... regardless of your twisting.
 
The Electoral College system is insane.

A few hundred designated individuals (electors) can override the election results if they feel like it.

That is pure insanity. All states should not allow their electors to go against the popular vote of their state.

And that is just one problem.


Another is that no state should be a 'winner-take-all' state. The number of electors should be based on the percentage of voters that voted for that candidate. A candidate can win one state by one vote and gets all the electors? That is nuts.


And finally, the whole system stinks. The majority should ALWAYS be the main decider for an election. And I do not care what kind of knucklehead reason people have for the Electoral College. That someone can lose the popular vote by many millions and still win the election? That is ridiculous...period.


Will it change? Not any time soon.

Why? Because most Americans do not have that much political common sense. The fact that so many voted for that buffoon Trump and that corrupt pig Clinton prove it. If you voted for either candidate, you are either politically clueless and/or disinterested and/or politically brainwashed and/or outright stupid in my book - whichever, you clearly have no idea what America truly needs.


And those who like the system - save your arguments. I neither care what they are nor will I waste my time reading them. For they are ALL wrong - some more than others.

The Electoral College system is wrong...period. It must go or be so radically altered that it would require a new name.


Have a nice day.
 
Last edited:
No.

And actually there needs to be a push to send the election of Senators back to the State houses...
 
DA60 said:
The Electoral College system is insane.

A few hundred designated individuals can override the election results if they feel like it.

That is pure insanity.

Anyone who sees that as just has no idea what 'just' actually means.


And I could care less what a few states with small populations thinks.

The majority should ALWAYS be the main decider for an election. And I do not care what kind of knucklehead reason people have for the Electoral College.

It is ridiculous...period.

Will it change? Not any time soon.

Why? Because most Americans do not have that much political common sense. The fact that so many voted for that buffoon Trump and that corrupt pig Clinton prove it.
Click to expand...

So a handful of large cities will forever rule the land..................right?
 
DaveFagan said:
The voters might be interested, but the Repubs have control for 4 years and since the Electoral College worked to their advantage in this last election, they will not allow change.
.
Click to expand...

If you recall prior to the election, democrats were universally said to have 'an electoral advantage.' Funny how they didn't want to see the EC changed then isn't it. If republicans are able to keep the rust belt red, then that EC advantage turns to them. If not, then the democrat hold on the coasts will make it tough for any republican in the future.

All is not lost, democrats
 
Getting rid of the EC would likely result into the eventual collapse of the US. It would lead to constant talk of secession due to many states feeling like they have no input into the election of President which has been granted far too much power. I think the easiest solution is to stop keeping track of the popular vote because it is completely irrelevant and only leads to confusion into how the President is elected.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Why are you making assumptions of prejudice and hate.

You can do better that this.
Click to expand...

They are evident in all this railing against people who live in urban areas .

Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
Yeah! Let's have a handful of densely populated left leaning cities determine the outcome of the election every 4 years.
Click to expand...

Its right there in your own words.

and again in 31

So a handful of large cities will forever rule the land..................right?
Click to expand...
 
RetiredUSN said:
The federalist #68 is not law.

The election was won within the law........... regardless of your twisting.
Click to expand...

You miss the point. The reason for the EC were not followed and ignored.What good is a system when it ignores its actual reasons for existing in the first place?
 
RetiredUSN said:
So a handful of large cities will forever rule the land..................right?
Click to expand...

I changed my post a little.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...e-scrap-ec-post1066805442.html#post1066805442


BTW - for what it is worth - I have more respect for you than most around here. If you have an even handed suggestion - I will read it.

I thought I should add that given how scathing my post was. :)


I sometimes get worked up about things.

Also - I drank too much coca cola earlier. lol (I don't usually drink caffeine).
 
Last edited:
haymarket said:
You miss the point. The reason for the EC were not followed and ignored.What good is a system when it ignores its actual reasons for existing in the first place?
Click to expand...

I didn't miss the point, you did.

The federalist #68 is not is not law, but you keep referring to it.

There were many other opinions out there other than Hamilton's on the issue.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I didn't miss the point, you did.

The federalist #68 is not is not law, but you keep referring to it.

There were many other opinions out there other than Hamilton's on the issue.
Click to expand...

It tells us the reason for the EC in the first place. Why are you ignoring that?
 
RetiredUSN said:
Look, I'm growing weary of your ever changing accusations of prejudice and hate, along with all your assumptions.

You win! :lol: :2wave:
Click to expand...

Then dump them and stop railing against people who exercise their freedom to live where they want to live.
 
In a divided America, it is almost impossible to get Constitutional Amendment passed. Since the EC has given the Republicans 12 years in the White House they probably would not have received without the EC, its very unlikely they would be in favor of it.... so, this is a hypothetical. "Should" would be a better question than "will"
 
RetiredUSN said:
The federalist #68 is not law.

The election was won within the law........... regardless of your twisting.
Click to expand...

Correct, its not law. But Federalist #68 is the authoritative source for the inclusion of the EC in the constitution. The SCOTUS would look to #68 to understand matters of dispute of the purpose and scope of the EC. So, its not law, but its close.

That said, I agree with Haymarket. If the electors had done their job, more would have voted for someone (anyone) other than Trump.
 
Last edited:
RetiredUSN said:
So a handful of large cities will forever rule the land..................right?
Click to expand...

Simple answer, to most the election is over. Most Americans have forgotten about the Electoral College, it is ancient history now. Fact is according to Gallup, 85% of all Americans view Trump as their president, a legitimize president. What's left are those avid Clinton supporters who won't let go. So, no change.

But one has to remember when it comes to the electoral college, we are not one mass direct democracy. We are a republic of the several states. A union of the several states. Hence each state having a say individually when presidential elections occurs. It's all part of being in a union of the several states, all part of being a representative republic instead of a mass direct democracy.

Although through the years the federal or central government has usurped most of the powers the states once had, that states basically are no more than boundary lines on a map, each state is distinct and unique in some ways. The electoral college isn't going anywhere. At least in the near future to satisfy a few, perhaps as many as 15% of Americans who seem not to be able to acknowledge their candidate lost this time around.

If the Democrats had nominated a decent candidate, that candidate would be sitting in the white house house having won the election by a landslide over Trump. Maybe even won the nationwide popular vote by 20 points. Candidates matter.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
In light of the disastrous results the last couple of electoral vote vs popular vote contests, will an amendment gain real ground this time?
Click to expand...
Clinton did not win. That means the EC performed perfectly and disastrous results were avoided.

Sent from my LG-V930 using Tapatalk
 
upsideguy said:
No, its not law. But Federalist #68 is the authoritative source for the inclusion of the EC in the constitution. The SCOTUS would look to #68 to understand matters of dispute of the purpose and scope of the EC. So, its not law, but its close.

That said, I agree with Haymarket. If the electors had done their job, more would have voted for someone (anyone) other than Trump.
Click to expand...

The federalist# 68 is what remains with us through history as the recorded arguments and opinions. There were other opinions as well.

The electors failed by honoring the voters this time around? How so?
 
RetiredUSN said:
The federalist# 68 is what remains with us through history as the recorded arguments and opinions. There were other opinions as well.

The electors failed by honoring the voters this time around? How so?
Click to expand...

The electoral college has NOTHING to do with honoring voters. It is, in fact, in place to protect American from the voters. The electors are intended to be the "elite" in place to overturn the preference of the uneducated masses, when necessary. They are a veto.

They did not do their jobs in accordance with #68, despite overwhelming evidence that the candidate was unfit for the job (exhibit A - not a single major US newspaper endorsed the guy, citing he was unqualified). I was not expecting the electoral college of overturn the results ... I was expecting a dozen or so electors to not vote for him as a matter of conscience.

The Federalist Papers are an authoritative source for the US Constitution. It is the primary reference of the SCOTUS on Constitutional matters. It is not just arguments and opinions.
 
Last edited:
DifferentDrummr said:
In light of the disastrous results the last couple of electoral vote vs popular vote contests, will an amendment gain real ground this time?
Click to expand...

No, DNC needs to change up their candidates and strategy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom