Why We All Need to Be Pro-Abortion

[Lursa]

On the topic.

Think the criteria in RoevWade was pretty close to what should be the standard. Although i do agree with the Supreme Court decision that there was nothing in the Constitution which addresses the issue. RoevWade was correctly overturned. Would love to see Congress grow some balls and actually legislate guidelines.

Allowing the termination of healthy fetuses/babies who have reached viability should qualify as murder. Once that point (viability) has been achieved the mother should no longer have the option of terminating the child. The child should be delivered and sustained.

Not sure which side of the abortion argument that puts me on. (....but i'm really not a bad person, so there is that.)

..

Um, how about "slave owner?"

Why not tell us how many women have elective abortions of healthy, viable fetuses before calling for life in prison?

 

[weaver2]

On the topic.

Think the criteria in RoevWade was pretty close to what should be the standard. Although i do agree with the Supreme Court decision that there was nothing in the Constitution which addresses the issue. RoevWade was correctly overturned. Would love to see Congress grow some balls and actually legislate guidelines.

Allowing the termination of healthy fetuses/babies who have reached viability should qualify as murder. Once that point (viability) has been achieved the mother should no longer have the option of terminating the child. The child should be delivered and sustained.

Not sure which side of the abortion argument that puts me on. (....but i'm really not a bad person, so there is that.)

..

That's what Roe says and that's what is happening. Only about .2% of all abortions happen after viability (24-28 weeks) and most of those abortions are medical emergencies and should never be called murder.

 

[Gordy327]

On the topic.

Think the criteria in RoevWade was pretty close to what should be the standard. Although i do agree with the Supreme Court decision that there was nothing in the Constitution which addresses the issue. RoevWade was correctly overturned. Would love to see Congress grow some balls and actually legislate guidelines.

Allowing the termination of healthy fetuses/babies who have reached viability should qualify as murder. Once that point (viability) has been achieved the mother should no longer have the option of terminating the child. The child should be delivered and sustained.

Not sure which side of the abortion argument that puts me on. (....but i'm really not a bad person, so there is that.)

..

Who's electively having abortions post viability? Abortions after viability are typically done for medical issues. Even if that were not the case, on what basis would a murder charge be applicable? Why should a woman be required or forced to sustain a fetus against her will? No one can be compelled to have their body used to support another, and that's actually backed by legal precedent.

 

[choiceone]

On the topic.

Think the criteria in RoevWade was pretty close to what should be the standard. Although i do agree with the Supreme Court decision that there was nothing in the Constitution which addresses the issue. RoevWade was correctly overturned. Would love to see Congress grow some balls and actually legislate guidelines.

Allowing the termination of healthy fetuses/babies who have reached viability should qualify as murder. Once that point (viability) has been achieved the mother should no longer have the option of terminating the child. The child should be delivered and sustained.

Not sure which side of the abortion argument that puts me on. (....but i'm really not a bad person, so there is that.)

..

I think there should be a Constitutional amendment clarifying that women have a right to choose, though I'm aware that it won't come for a decade or so.

Re viability - I don't think abortion is ever murder because, as long as a fetus is in a woman's body and attached to her body biologically, it is part of her body.

However, I saw the reasoning in Roe v Wade and do think that medical viability could be a cut-off point for state law regulating medicine, but with exceptions to save a woman's life or major organ function.

Re termination - I have never considered abortion to terminate a child. Abortion terminates a pregnancy, a biological relation of a woman and implanted embryo/fetus. If it can't survive outside and detached from her body, I don't think it's a person and I'm not changing. At the same time, if it can survive, but it's attached, it's still not a child from my perspective.

 

[screenwriter]

The fetus is a human being with rights?

Not in the dystopia in which we live it isn't. It should be though.

 

[Gordy327]

The fetus is a human being with rights?

No, it is not.

 

[Gordy327]

Not in the dystopia in which we live it isn't. It should be though.

Why? What about the rights and autonomy of the pregnant woman? Restrcting her rights and autonomy is what is really dystopian here. Laws restricting abortion are draconian.

 

[Real blank]

You aren’t going to win people round by becoming more entrenched in your position. Pro-choice is a pretty diplomatic term for your position.

 

[choiceone]

You aren’t going to win people round by becoming more entrenched in your position. Pro-choice is a pretty diplomatic term for your position.

Of course we are. All we have to do is wait for a sufficient percentage of older people to die, because surveys have shown that the young are more pro-choice than the mature, the mature are more pro-choice than the middle aged, and the middle aged are more pro-choice than the old. This is the reason why support for the pro-choice position went from about 52% in 1973 to about 59-60% now.

 

[Real blank]

Of course we are. All we have to do is wait for a sufficient percentage of older people to die, because surveys have shown that the young are more pro-choice than the mature, the mature are more pro-choice than the middle aged, and the middle aged are more pro-choice than the old. This is the reason why support for the pro-choice position went from about 52% in 1973 to about 59-60% now.

How do you definitely know the generation after gen z won’t view abortion as a complete abomination? People seem comfortable with the idea the way we treat animals now will be seen as an abomination why not abortion ?

 

[Lursa]

How do you definitely know the generation after gen z won’t view abortion as a complete abomination? People seem comfortable with the idea we treat animals now will be seen as an abomination why not abortion ?

What's wrong with abortion? How is that worse than forcing women against their will, risking their health, their lives, their futures, their obligations and responsibilities to others...to remain pregnant? That's a horror of pain and suffering if someone doesnt want a child. It's inhumane, esp since there is a much safer medical procedure to end it. Women in this country have rights as individuals, are recognized as our own moral agents. Just like men.

The unborn suffers nothing. Weigh it out and see which is the higher moral ground...it's not banning abortions that's for sure.

 

[Real blank]

What's wrong with abortion? How is that worse than forcing women against their will, risking their health, their lives, their futures, their obligations and responsibilities to others...to remain pregnant? That's a horror of pain and suffering if someone doesnt want a child. It's inhumane, esp since there is a much safer medical procedure to end it. Women in this country have rights as individuals, are recognized as our own moral agents. Just like men.

The unborn suffers nothing. Weigh it out and see which is the higher moral ground...it's not banning abortions that's for sure.

Hold on ,I’m pro choice. Describing oneself as pro abortion is a terrible idea though it wins nobody around

 

[Integrityrespec]

Please read the article and discuss if you agree or disagree.

Why We All Need to Be Pro-Abortion

The language we use shapes the way we think, the way we see the world, and the way we live our lives. This couldn't be more true for abortion care, and Whole Woman’s Health Alliance is working hard to create a world free of shame, stigma, and judgement. Every day, we see the positive impact abortion

www.wholewomanshealthalliance.org

So, there is a reason why we say we’re pro-abortion. Many abortion supporters identify as “pro-choice”, but choice is simply not enough. “Choice” assumes that everyone can get an abortion, and someone just has to choose whether or not they want one. It fails to address the many structural and societal factors that leave people with very few or no choices at all.

This is especially true in states where abortion care is restricted and clinics are scarce. If the nearest abortion clinic is hundreds of miles away, a person may have a “choice” to get an abortion – but if they are lacking transportation, the ability to take time off work, or the funds to afford care, their “choice” doesn’t exist.

It’s not uncommon for people to say “I’m pro-choice, not pro-abortion.” If you are one of those folks or know someone who is, we know your heart is in the right place. But this framing is hurtful to people who’ve had abortions and those who might need abortions in the future. It implies that....

Abortion stops a beating heart. If it takes killing babies to make people feel good, I'm out.

 

[Integrityrespec]

What's wrong with abortion? How is that worse than forcing women against their will, risking their health, their lives, their futures, their obligations and responsibilities to others...to remain pregnant? That's a horror of pain and suffering if someone doesnt want a child. It's inhumane, esp since there is a much safer medical procedure to end it. Women in this country have rights as individuals, are recognized as our own moral agents. Just like men.

The unborn suffers nothing. Weigh it out and see which is the higher moral ground...it's not banning abortions that's for sure.

Who forced them to get pregnant? I'm ok with exceptions, but if you make a decision to do the dirty and you aren't smart enough to get and use protection then you made your bed and you laid in it.

 

[Real blank]

Who forced them to get pregnant? I'm ok with exceptions, but if you make a decision to do the dirty and you aren't smart enough to get and use protection then you made your bed and you laid in it.

It doesn’t make sense to be in favour of the exceptions

 

[Gordy327]

Abortion stops a beating heart.

So what? There's no developed, functioning brain yet, especially in early pregnancy.

If it takes killing babies to make people feel good, I'm out.

There are no babies in an abortion.

Who forced them to get pregnant? I'm ok with exceptions, but if you make a decision to do the dirty and you aren't smart enough to get and use protection then you made your bed and you laid in it.

Who are you to decide if someone can have an abortion or not? Protection is not 109% effective and most abortions are performed because Protection failed.

 

[Gordy327]

It doesn’t make sense to be in favour of the exceptions

It makes even less sense to be in favor of restrictions.

 

[Real blank]

It makes even less sense to be in favor of restrictions.

you are asking a different question

 

[Gordy327]

you are asking a different question

No, I'm making a statement.

 

[choiceone]

How do you definitely know the generation after gen z won’t view abortion as a complete abomination? People seem comfortable with the idea the way we treat animals now will be seen as an abomination why not abortion ?

Because the vast majority of young women don't want to get pregnant in adolescence or early adulthood, as they are not compensated well for it.

When you are young, people treat you better when you are good-looking, healthy, single, adequately educated, and have more disposable income, which usually depends on full-time work outside the home. Having a baby interferes with every one of those characteristics.

Many men want to have sex with such women, but if the women get pregnant and give birth, they are way less interested, too. Young men also want women to have the characteristics of not being pregnant or being mothers.

This is not at all unique to Western societies. All over East Asia, young women know that their life as single and young is the best time in their lives and will never get better, so they want to draw it out as long as possible.

Moreover, there was a classic article about the island of Yap in Micronesia in the 1950s that recognized the same basic phenomenon there. Further analysis showed that, in earlier times, the traditional social structure had allowed men and women to obtain certain types of social gratification from marriage, parenthood, and middle age, but as modern medicine changed the ratio of youthful and older populations, one couldn't as easily obtain those types of compensatory gratification.

This seems to result in an elongation of adolescent and youthful social irresponsibility. It happens all over with overpopulation and economic issues and longer lives of the old, who don't give up their privileges. Want the young to give you grandkids? Give young people more money, good housing, more chances for promotion at jobs and more status as parents, and old people need to prepare to die sooner and otherwise give up their privileges..

 

[choiceone]

Who forced them to get pregnant? I'm ok with exceptions, but if you make a decision to do the dirty and you aren't smart enough to get and use protection then you made your bed and you laid in it.

The problem is that contraception is not 100% effective, so even if people use it assiduously and correctly, some women will get pregnant anyway and others won't. You'll penalize the unlucky. This is inherently unfair and is also bound to make babies less and less desirable until people recoil at reproduction generally.

It's because of that inherent unfairness that the "you made your bed, now lie in it" argument doesn't work. It proclaims that the lucky are treated as more moral and the unlucky are treated as less moral even when they practice the same level and quality of morality and intelligent responsibility.

And the problem is that in some cases someone DID force them to get pregnant because some girls and women have been raped. This merely exacerbates the immorality of the unfair treatment of lucky and unlucky.

 

[Real blank]

Because the vast majority of young women don't want to get pregnant in adolescence or early adulthood, as they are not compensated well for it.

When you are young, people treat you better when you are good-looking, healthy, single, adequately educated, and have more disposable income, which usually depends on full-time work outside the home. Having a baby interferes with every one of those characteristics.

Many men want to have sex with such women, but if the women get pregnant and give birth, they are way less interested, too. Young men also want women to have the characteristics of not being pregnant or being mothers.

This is not at all unique to Western societies. All over East Asia, young women know that their life as single and young is the best time in their lives and will never get better, so they want to draw it out as long as possible.

Moreover, there was a classic article about the island of Yap in Micronesia in the 1950s that recognized the same basic phenomenon there. Further analysis showed that, in earlier times, the traditional social structure had allowed men and women to obtain certain types of social gratification from marriage, parenthood, and middle age, but as modern medicine changed the ratio of youthful and older populations, one couldn't as easily obtain those types of compensatory gratification.

This seems to result in an elongation of adolescent and youthful social irresponsibility. It happens all over with overpopulation and economic issues and longer lives of the old, who don't give up their privileges. Want the young to give you grandkids? Give young people more money, good housing, more chances for promotion at jobs and more status as parents, and old people need to prepare to die sooner and otherwise give up their privileges..

Look, that’s nicely put together but it doesn’t answer the question at all

 

[Lursa]

Hold on ,I’m pro choice. Describing oneself as pro abortion is a terrible idea though it wins nobody around

My bad then. There are some that do consider themselves pro-abortion but they are uncommon.

 

[Lursa]

Who forced them to get pregnant? I'm ok with exceptions, but if you make a decision to do the dirty and you aren't smart enough to get and use protection then you made your bed and you laid in it.

Why cant people enjoy consensual sex? If there's an accident, there's a safer medical procedure to end the pregnancy. Yes, stop a beating heart, kill it. Why are you condemning women that use birth control to unwanted pregnancy...meaning risking their health, their lives, meaning unwanted, unaffordable kids?

I gave you the courtesy of an answer, Now, answer the question that you avoided please:

How is that worse than forcing women against their will, risking their health, their lives, their futures, their obligations and responsibilities to others...to remain pregnant? That's a horror of pain and suffering if someone doesnt want a child. It's inhumane, esp since there is a much safer medical procedure to end it. Women in this country have rights as individuals, are recognized as our own moral agents. Just like men.​

​

The unborn suffers nothing. Weigh it out and see which is the higher moral ground...it's not banning abortions that's for sure.​

 

[weaver2]

How do you definitely know the generation after gen z won’t view abortion as a complete abomination? People seem comfortable with the idea the way we treat animals now will be seen as an abomination why not abortion ?

88% of American women support legal abortion and will not never see abortion as an abomination. And if men had unplanned pregnancies abortion would become a sacred right.