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Why the Supreme Court should find for the Judges power, and Birthright Citizenship.

If they find an undocumented person, and they detain them , is that under the authority of their jurisdiction

If they arrest the immigrant, where did the authority to arrest them come from?

The laws in this jurisdiction
The individual is detained pursuant to a removal action unless they committed some other crime for which they are to be prosecuted. This is part of the limitation which includes a limitation on the right to stay in the country, the prohibition on working without express authorization, etc.
 
Diplomatic Immunity. If you can’t be charged with a crime because you have diplomatic immunity you are not subject to the Jurisdiction.

To put it in Hollywood terms. The Second Lethal Weapon movie. The bad guy was an Ambassador from South Africa. He had Diplomatic Immunity. The cops couldn’t arrest him or get search warrants for any property owned by the South African Government. They couldn’t do anything but ask the State Department to Persona Non Grata the guy. In other words tell South Africa that we didn’t like him and send him home.
As I recall, his diplomatic immunity was revoked. :)
 
If district court judges are allowed to impose national injunctions we will see hundreds, if not thousands, of cases shopped to these courts and the effect will be nullification of Executive power. Liberals will shop cases in liberal districts when a Republican is in office and Republicans will shop cases in conservative districts when liberals are in power. It will completely end Constitutional separation and hand ALL power to the judicial branch.

They tend to file in Washington DC as the defendant, the Government, is there. So it isn’t like the Government has to send a lawyer special yo some out of the way area accessible only by dirt road.

But let’s play this out. Let’s say a Democrat orders all personal weapons with magazines turned in. The folks in your area file a lawsuit. The case ends up before a Liberal Judge who says that you have to obey. In the meantime a Judge that has a district that ends in the next town over has quashed the order as unconstitutional. Do you obey the law? Or do you defy the local judge?
 
They tend to file in Washington DC as the defendant, the Government, is there. So it isn’t like the Government has to send a lawyer special yo some out of the way area accessible only by dirt road.

But let’s play this out. Let’s say a Democrat orders all personal weapons with magazines turned in. The folks in your area file a lawsuit. The case ends up before a Liberal Judge who says that you have to obey. In the meantime a Judge that has a district that ends in the next town over has quashed the order as unconstitutional. Do you obey the law? Or do you defy the local judge?
You're missing the point. If district courts are allowed to impose nationwide injunctions on Executive action then that means that the Executive MUST operate ONLY when their actions are approved by a court and can take NO ACTION unless they get judicial approval. For example, if an Executive branch agency claims to have actionable intelligence that a terrorist organization plans to fly airplanes into federal buildings then the Executive needs to get court approval before they take action.
 
You're missing the point. If district courts are allowed to impose nationwide injunctions on Executive action then that means that the Executive MUST operate ONLY when their actions are approved by a court and can take NO ACTION unless they get judicial approval. For example, if an Executive branch agency claims to have actionable intelligence that a terrorist organization plans to fly airplanes into federal buildings then the Executive needs to get court approval before they take action.
No, it doesn't. This is babbling bullshit.

Turn the Faux off.

It means the executive branch MUST FOLLOW THE ****ING LAW.
 
No part of "any person" is hard to understand. The phrase at issue actually says "all persons," but that's not the issue anyway. The issue is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."

Either you know this and are strawmanning a fake argument (in which case no one should take you seriously), or you don't and have no idea what you're actually arguing against (in which case no one should take you seriously).
And you have been shown numerous times what “subject to the jurisdiction” means.
 
Except there is wide disagreement about what it says. Aren't you aware of this? This is the crux of the whole matter.
No there isn’t.
What kind of immunity counts?
Diplomatic immunity. Be tr one else is subject to US jurisdiction while on US soil. Your citizenship and legal status is completely meaningless.
 
Real life isn't the movies. There are different kinds of immunity. Which ones make a person "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States?
Everyone except diplomats with immunity are subject to US jurisdiction. This is long settled law.
 
Only in a very limited sense. We have plenty of laws, especially when it comes to immigration, that substantively limit the rights of non-citizens. We have other laws that actually define "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" and in those cases the matter is clearly separated between those here lawfully and those here in contravention of the law.
No we don’t. Immigration status is completely meaningless regarding jurisdiction while on US soil. This is basic 6th grade level understanding of civics.
 
The individual is detained pursuant to a removal action unless they committed some other crime for which they are to be prosecuted. This is part of the limitation which includes a limitation on the right to stay in the country, the prohibition on working without express authorization, etc.
Which is how you know they are subject to US jurisdiction. The very notion that illegals aren’t subject to US jurisdiction is a special kind of retarded.
 
You're missing the point. If district courts are allowed to impose nationwide injunctions on Executive action then that means that the Executive MUST operate ONLY when their actions are approved by a court and can take NO ACTION unless they get judicial approval. For example, if an Executive branch agency claims to have actionable intelligence that a terrorist organization plans to fly airplanes into federal buildings then the Executive needs to get court approval before they take action.

It doesn’t mean that at all. It means that the Executive must follow the Constitution. They can’t just decide to redefine something. They can’t just issue an order that is blatantly unconstitutional, or Illegal.

Look at the Injunctions already in the Trump Term. Firing people who were appointed to Mandated terms. Such as the FEC. The Terms are set by Congress, and the appointments are for that entire term. Trump decided to do something illegal, and fire them. Okay, but that’s illegal, and the Court ordered that Trump reinstate them. Trump has power, but our system limits the power of the Executive to specific things.

The Appeals process still exists, and it exists faster if it is one judge instead of a Hundred.

Let’s play this out shall we? One Judge for your district rules that the Government can park police in your home at any time. They can conduct searches for Illegals without warrants or Probable Cause. His reasoning is that there is an invasion of illegals. Another Judge Rules that they can because you live within one hundred miles of a Port of Entry and you have no reasonable expectation of Privacy in the flood of illegals. The Appeals court rules that the second judge is wrong and the ICE Agents must get a warrant to enter the home. But that doesn’t address the argument of the First Judge, so his order stands until it is judged by the Appeals Court. Every different reason the Judges find, has to be litigated individually.

Remember Biden and his paying off of Student Loans? One Judge ruled that he could, the appeals court ruled that he couldn’t, and the Supremes said he couldn’t transfer money from B which was congressional mandated, to pay off A. So Biden tried to transfer money from C, to pay off A. Again one Judge issued a national stay, and again up the appeals courts it went.

Imagine if that was every district in the nation. One judge says yes, and they start paying off loans in that area. Another judge rules no, and they don’t in that area.

Until the Appeals Courts rule on each individual case, there is no overruling the judges. And with fifty plus cases, the appeals court will be flooded and swamped. And each one of those cases will get appealed to the Supremes.

One and done is safer, faster, and much more likely to get a quick path on the appeals.
 
(I found this old post of mine from another forum and it is more relevant than ever.)

The three main issues with Federal Judiciary is the Supreme Court's increasing use of its so called "shadow docket" (i.e. interlocutory docket), the ability of a single United States District Judge to enjoin a Federal statute or an Agency regulation on a nationwide basis and court/judge shopping.

My proposal is thus:

1. I would remove the Supreme Court's interlocutory appellate jurisdiction, with ONE and ONLY ONE exception. The Supreme Court could entertain interlocutory appellate jurisdiction for the purpose of enjoining a pending execution for consideration of a habeas issue. However, they could not intervene on an interlocutory basis to overturn a lower court stay of an execution.

2. The Supreme Court would retain appellate jurisdiction over FINAL JUDGEMENTS of the United States Courts of Appeals, three Judge United States District Courts (Civil Rights and Voting Rights), Courts of Final Resort in the several States, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court of Puerto Rico and the highest courts in the territories.

3. While the Supreme Court would not lose any subject matter jurisdiction overall, they would be deprived of interlocutory jurisdiction. This would have the affect of ensuring the Supreme Court remains in its proper role as a court of last resort, not a court of first resort.

4. I would establish a United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals. This court would consist of one judge randomly selected from each of the 12 regional Courts of Appeals and who would serve a one year term on the court. They would simultaneously continue their service on their home Court of Appeals.

5. The United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals would have a very small jurisdiction. It would have direct interlocutory jurisdiction when a United States District Judge issues either a nationwide injunction or an injunction applying to non parties in a case. When that happens, the injunction would automatically be stayed and appealed to the United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals. The court would hear the appeal on an expedited basis and the concurrence of 8 of the 12 Judges would be required to sustain the injunction. The judgement of the United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals would be final and not subject to review either by any of the 12 regional Courts of Appeals or by the Supreme Court, UNTIL judgement becomes final in the District Court.

(**NOTE:** Obviously, the judgement of the Interlocutory Court of Appeals could be overturned by the appropriate Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court, IF and WHEN the cases reach those respective courts after final judgement is had in the District Court. Just not BEFORE judgement becomes final in the District Court.)

6. The final reform would be to venue for cases challenging a United States Federal Statute, Executive Order or agency regulation. When such a case is filed anywhere in the United States, a lottery style drawing would be held to randomly select which of the 91 Article III District Courts would hear the case. The case would be randomly assigned to any eligible active status or senior judge in that district. This, of course, would end the rampant evil of court shopping and judge shopping. Again, this procedure would only apply to the limited class of cases above and would not affect ordinary criminal or civil cases.

(Note: If multiple cases are filed, they would be consolidated and sent to the same court/judge, selected as above.)

And to make it clear, the Supreme Court retains the full jurisdiction they have now, but only on final judgements, not interlocutory judgements.
 
Except there is wide disagreement about what it says. Aren't you aware of this? This is the crux of the whole matter


Jus soli prevents anyone born in the US from being stateless.

Prior to the 14th, the US had numerous populations that were stateless - the children of Irish and German immigrants - facing delays in becoming naturalized - among them.

If you want to change it, do it properly through changing the Amendment.

Not by EO.
 
You're missing the point. If district courts are allowed to impose nationwide injunctions on Executive action then that means that the Executive MUST operate ONLY when their actions are approved by a court and can take NO ACTION unless they get judicial approval. For example, if an Executive branch agency claims to have actionable intelligence that a terrorist organization plans to fly airplanes into federal buildings then the Executive needs to get court approval before they take action.
No, it means the Executive should follow the Constitution and then they won’t find themselves in court every week defending EOs that don’t follow the Constitution. 🤷‍♀️
 
(I found this old post of mine from another forum and it is more relevant than ever.)

The three main issues with Federal Judiciary is the Supreme Court's increasing use of its so called "shadow docket" (i.e. interlocutory docket), the ability of a single United States District Judge to enjoin a Federal statute or an Agency regulation on a nationwide basis and court/judge shopping.

My proposal is thus:

1. I would remove the Supreme Court's interlocutory appellate jurisdiction, with ONE and ONLY ONE exception. The Supreme Court could entertain interlocutory appellate jurisdiction for the purpose of enjoining a pending execution for consideration of a habeas issue. However, they could not intervene on an interlocutory basis to overturn a lower court stay of an execution.

2. The Supreme Court would retain appellate jurisdiction over FINAL JUDGEMENTS of the United States Courts of Appeals, three Judge United States District Courts (Civil Rights and Voting Rights), Courts of Final Resort in the several States, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court of Puerto Rico and the highest courts in the territories.

3. While the Supreme Court would not lose any subject matter jurisdiction overall, they would be deprived of interlocutory jurisdiction. This would have the affect of ensuring the Supreme Court remains in its proper role as a court of last resort, not a court of first resort.

4. I would establish a United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals. This court would consist of one judge randomly selected from each of the 12 regional Courts of Appeals and who would serve a one year term on the court. They would simultaneously continue their service on their home Court of Appeals.

5. The United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals would have a very small jurisdiction. It would have direct interlocutory jurisdiction when a United States District Judge issues either a nationwide injunction or an injunction applying to non parties in a case. When that happens, the injunction would automatically be stayed and appealed to the United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals. The court would hear the appeal on an expedited basis and the concurrence of 8 of the 12 Judges would be required to sustain the injunction. The judgement of the United States Court of Interlocutory Appeals would be final and not subject to review either by any of the 12 regional Courts of Appeals or by the Supreme Court, UNTIL judgement becomes final in the District Court.

(**NOTE:** Obviously, the judgement of the Interlocutory Court of Appeals could be overturned by the appropriate Court of Appeals or the Supreme Court, IF and WHEN the cases reach those respective courts after final judgement is had in the District Court. Just not BEFORE judgement becomes final in the District Court.)

6. The final reform would be to venue for cases challenging a United States Federal Statute, Executive Order or agency regulation. When such a case is filed anywhere in the United States, a lottery style drawing would be held to randomly select which of the 91 Article III District Courts would hear the case. The case would be randomly assigned to any eligible active status or senior judge in that district. This, of course, would end the rampant evil of court shopping and judge shopping. Again, this procedure would only apply to the limited class of cases above and would not affect ordinary criminal or civil cases.

(Note: If multiple cases are filed, they would be consolidated and sent to the same court/judge, selected as above.)

And to make it clear, the Supreme Court retains the full jurisdiction they have now, but only on final judgements, not interlocutory judgements.
Why?

interlocutary actions are relatively rare.

Seems a large Congressional undertaking and spending of a lot of political capital to address a problem that doesn’t really exist 🤷‍♀️
 
No, it means the Executive should follow the Constitution and then they won’t find themselves in court every week defending EOs that don’t follow the Constitution. 🤷‍♀️
These "the courts have to rule on this" crap is just plain wrong, sorry, Justice Roberts. Congress, when they established the AEA, placed the enactment and execution of the Act in the inherent powers of the Executive. The courts really shouldn't have ANY say in whether it's being handled correctly or not. That role is for Congress. If congress determines that the Executive is abusing his power via the Act then they can and should impeach the President for abusing his office. The courts shouldn't be involved in any way other than as established in the Act.
 
If district court judges are allowed to impose national injunctions we will see hundreds, if not thousands, of cases shopped to these courts and the effect will be nullification of Executive power. Liberals will shop cases in liberal districts when a Republican is in office and Republicans will shop cases in conservative districts when liberals are in power. It will completely end Constitutional separation and hand ALL power to the judicial branch.

But the problem still stands. The government would still have to fight thousands of lawsuits regarding any given issue. Let us say the Supreme Court undertakes your logic, Lutherf.

Let's make up an outlandish scenario that nevertheless illustrates the point clearly. Let us pretend that in 2028 Far-Left Democrats sweep the House, Senate and Presidency. Not Moderate 1990s Clinton Democrats, mind you, but real far left Woodrow Wilson style progressives.

After murmurings of revolution against the socialist takeover by right-wing media figures, the Far-Left President invokes the insurrection act and signs an Executive Order ordering that every single registered Republican or any person who had voted Republican in the last 10 years in the United States shall be disarmed and are to turn over any and all firearms in their possession and are to open to having their homes searched by the ATF on pain of arrest within 30 days.

The far-left Congress cheers the President's courageous audacity. This clearly being grossly unconstitutional, gun owners try to sue the Federal government to get the Executive Order stayed and declared unconstitutional. Instead of stopping the order, the plaintiffs are told by the Courts that no general injunction against the unconstitutional order can be issued. Instead, they are informed they must each individually hire their own federal civil litigator to the tune of many tens of thousands of dollars in attorneys fees to preserve only their individual gun rights and theirs alone, because any given order can only be determined unconstitutionally applied as to them. But the order will still stand for the tens of millions of other voters without the wherewithal and monetary resources to preserve their rights.
 
These "the courts have to rule on this" crap is just plain wrong, sorry, Justice Roberts. Congress, when they established the AEA, placed the enactment and execution of the Act in the inherent powers of the Executive. The courts really shouldn't have ANY say in whether it's being handled correctly or not. That role is for Congress. If congress determines that the Executive is abusing his power via the Act then they can and should impeach the President for abusing his office. The courts shouldn't be involved in any way other than as established in the Act.

So it is Congress that has the power to determine what is properly within the scope of Constitutionally-granted authority of the chief executive?
 
Why?

interlocutary actions are relatively rare.

Seems a large Congressional undertaking and spending of a lot of political capital to address a problem that doesn’t really exist 🤷‍♀️

Interlocutory actions are extremely common. EVERY preliminary injunction (nationwide or not) is an interlocutory action. Every appeal of those preliminary injunctions is an interlocutory appeal. About 10% to 12% of Federal appeals are interlocutory, a very significant percentage.

However, my proposal only deals with a minute number of cases, those attempting to enjoin Presidential Executive Orders, Agency rules and certain other matters, where a nationwide injunction is sought.

The legislation required would be trivially simple to write and enact and the cost to the judiciary would be trivial, since no new judgeships would be created and the judges chosen would hear these appeals remotely.

And the problem does exist.

1. Court/Judge shopping (for which BOTH parties are equally guilty)

2. Nationwide injunctions (which may or may not be appropriate). In the case of birthright citizenship, appropriate, since the fundamental right of citizenship is at stake. On the other hand, litigant only injunctions would have been more appropriate in the Biden loan forgiveness cases, since a fundamental right was not at issue. A single appellate court adjudicating nationwide injunctions would bring uniformity and standard for the issuance of nationwide injunctions.

3. The Supreme Court has repeatedly interjected itself into cases at a fairly early stage of litigation. Not appropriate for a court of last resort and my reforms would make it unnecessary for the Supreme Court to act until the case is final both at the District Court and Court of Appeals, at which time the Supreme Court can appropriately act as a court of last resort.
 
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