Why Republicans Are Embracing Vouchers Even Though They Don’t Work

[Peacenik]

"A 2020 report in Chalkbeat explains how the evidence on vouchers has turned negative. “Older studies tended to show neutral or modest positive effects of vouchers on academic performance,” the story notes, but “in the last few years, a spate of studies have shown that voucher programs in Indiana, Louisiana, Ohio, and Washington D.C. hurt student achievement — often causing moderate to large declines.”

So why would Republican-run states invest huge sums of money in a program that seems more likely to hurt educational outcomes than help them? The answer is that vouchers have ceased to be an education-reform program. They are being used now mainly to reimburse parents who home-school their children or send them to private school. In Arizona, which recently enacted a universal voucher system, three-quarters of the recipients already attended private schools. Providing vouchers didn’t give children choices; it simply sent checks to parents who were already privately educating their children.

This dynamic is even clearer in Florida. The state previously had a limited voucher system for low-income students, and Governor Ron DeSantis’s bill makes it universal. “It expands school choice to every single student in the state of Florida, and it does that by eliminating the current financial-eligibility restrictions and allowing any student who is a resident of Florida and is eligible to enroll in K-12 to participate in school-choice scholarships,” he boasted. DeSantis’s reform is to make these vouchers available to people who aren’t poor."

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Just a way to attack the public school system while giving government resources to middle class private school students.

Nothing works better as a vote-getter than [ handing out free money + hatred of government institutions + keep my kid away from black kids ] .

It's a triple 'win' for DeSantis.

 

[gbg3]

Then maybe public schools should quit gender-swapping kids behind their parents' back and go back to teaching valuable, real world skills.

Besides...competition brings out the best in people.

EXACTLY!

 

[gbg3]

Until they realize their kids aren’t going to get accepted into the private and charter schools

Wait until these vouchers start gaining traction.

Suddenly, you’ll have 100 kids “competing” for 25 seats.

We already have that situation. Parents put great effort into looking for and figuring out the best options for their children. Parents are voting for and wanting school choice and the entire school situation is currently shifting and working hard to catch up with that demand. Charter schools and private schools will increase in numbers and public schools will improve (if they hope to stay in the mix). Competition is a good thing and a great thing in something as important as the education of children. Political narratives will struggle when it comes to education of children. Outcomes for kids will prove to be the big driver and the ultimate winner in this battle.
Parents will vote for their children!

 

[BirdinHand]

We already have that situation. Parents put great effort into looking for and figuring out the best options for their children. Parents are voting for and wanting school choice and the entire school situation is currently shifting and working hard to catch up with that demand. Charter schools and private schools will increase in numbers and public schools will improve (if they hope to stay in the mix). Competition is a good thing and a great thing in something as important as the education of children. Political narratives will struggle when it comes to education of children. Outcomes for kids will prove to be the big driver and the ultimate winner in this battle.
Parents will vote for their children!

Well, except for the small aspect of the time it would take (not to mention the money) to build new charter schools in areas with demand.

Doesn’t really help students currently IN schools, does it?


How long does it take to get a new charter school started?

Everything I’ve read is showing a minimum of 1-3 years. And that’s *if* an organization can get all the approvals necessary and the funding necessary together in that timeline.

And that’s per school.

That’s for charter schools. Private schools can take less time because they don’t have to meet the requirements public charter schools do - but private schools don’t have to accept every student either.



So…vouchers today are paying for kids to attend private and charter schools they otherwise would have already attended. With the only outcome being defunding the already struggling public school districts in many areas.

 

[gbg3]

I'm a grandmother now and things have changed substantially since I went to a public school as a kid.
Back then, competition was a huge part of school. Teachers would announce which students got the very highest score on a test, students were moved into accelerated classes when they were academically bored in a grade level class and, conversely, students who couldn't keep up were moved into a slower class where they could keep up. Even in physical fitness, we had the John Kennedy physical fitness program incorporated into our gym classes. We also had field day where only the top performers got ribbons. There were blue, red, and white ribbons and no "participation" trophies.
This competition was tough at times. For example, I couldn't climb a rope (part of the Kennedy program) and I was quite embarrassed during that activity. But I was an excellent math student and I was allowed to be in an accelerated math class which moved quickly and kept us interested and progressing at a challenging clip. Meanwhile, I could still be best friends with the girl who could climb the rope the fastest and struggled in math.
Competition was good and children could excel at THEIR pace while not being held back or pushed too hard due to a goal of trying to force everyone into the same box, give everyone a participation award, and avoid congratulating the student who got the highest test score because not every student did.

 

[gbg3]

Well, except for the small aspect of the time it would take (not to mention the money) to build new charter schools in areas with demand.

Doesn’t really help students currently IN schools, does it?


How long does it take to get a new charter school started?

Everything I’ve read is showing a minimum of 1-3 years. And that’s *if* an organization can get all the approvals necessary and the funding necessary together in that timeline.

And that’s per school.

That’s for charter schools. Private schools can take less time because they don’t have to meet the requirements public charter schools do - but private schools don’t have to accept every student either.



So…vouchers today are paying for kids to attend private and charter schools they otherwise would have already attended. With the only outcome being defunding the already struggling public school districts in many areas.

Fine, lots of worthwhile things take time to fully implement. I'm not at all sure of your point. Are you suggesting a failing system should remain for the long term just because it takes time to work up to full operation of a better system?
You're right in that students currently at various points in their education will benefit more or less to system improvements depending on their current age. But in the meantime, those current options will be in competition to become better options - so they'll ultimately survive. And I certainly think public schools desperately need that great big kick in the butt. Recent student outcomes are loudly telling us how much they are failing.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

Well, for now, the "right wing" is making huge strides in the direction of school choice and vouchers. Parents are certainly voting for their children's improved success and future!

It will not last.

The right-wing will lose in the end. This has been a constant for decades.

 

[BirdinHand]

I'm a grandmother now and things have changed substantially since I went to a public school as a kid.
Back then, competition was a huge part of school. Teachers would announce which students got the very highest score on a test, students were moved into accelerated classes when they were academically bored in a grade level class and, conversely, students who couldn't keep up were moved into a slower class where they could keep up. Even in physical fitness, we had the John Kennedy physical fitness program incorporated into our gym classes. We also had field day where only the top performers got ribbons. There were blue, red, and white ribbons and no "participation" trophies.
This competition was tough at times. For example, I couldn't climb a rope (part of the Kennedy program) and I was quite embarrassed during that activity. But I was an excellent math student and I was allowed to be in an accelerated math class which moved quickly and kept us interested and progressing at a challenging clip. Meanwhile, I could still be best friends with the girl who could climb the rope the fastest and struggled in math.
Competition was good and children could excel at THEIR pace while not being held back or pushed too hard due to a goal of trying to force everyone into the same box, give everyone a participation award, and avoid congratulating the student who got the highest test score because not every student did.

Ok?

And now 1st and 2nd graders are using Chromebook’s and doing their assignments on computers.

They’re learning how to interact and work in collaboration with a wide variety of technologies and peers. They’re learning how to use technology to accomplish day to day tasks.

I graduated high school in1996. We spent large chunks of time learning cursive handwriting, how to format different types of letters and correspondence. You didn’t take any typing or computer classes until high school and technology was not a part of your day to day life.

Now 2nd graders know how to open a computer, find the appropriate program and select their next lesson, book, task, etc.

As they get older - they don’t have to walk into a library and pull an outdated encyclopedia off a shelf to write a paper - they’re learning to differentiate between different sources and the quality of different source material they can access on the internet - in elementary school.

They aren’t wasting time learning cursive handwriting - instead they’re learning how to utilize the technology at their fingertips to communicate with people around the world.


No one cares who can climb a rope the fastest - can you manage an international team?


Welcome to 2023. The standards from
The 1900’s don’t apply and aren’t valid metrics to measure successful educational outcomes against.

 

[gbg3]

Ok?

And now 1st and 2nd graders are using Chromebook’s and doing their assignments on computers.

They’re learning how to interact and work in collaboration with a wide variety of technologies and peers. They’re learning how to use technology to accomplish day to day tasks.

I graduated high school in1996. We spent large chunks of time learning cursive handwriting, how to format different types of letters and correspondence. You didn’t take any typing or computer classes until high school and technology was not a part of your day to day life.

Now 2nd graders know how to open a computer, find the appropriate program and select their next lesson, book, task, etc.

As they get older - they don’t have to walk into a library and pull an outdated encyclopedia off a shelf to write a paper - they’re learning to differentiate between different sources and the quality of different source material they can access on the internet - in elementary school.

They aren’t wasting time learning cursive handwriting - instead they’re learning how to utilize the technology at their fingertips to communicate with people around the world.


No one cares who can climb a rope the fastest - can you manage an international team?


Welcome to 2023. The standards from
The 1900’s don’t apply and aren’t valid metrics to measure successful educational outcomes against.

Unrelated to my comment about competition, the benefit of different levels of classes, and "participation trophies" vs acknowledgement of the best performances - but okay, technology has advanced. We certainly don't disagree.

Nothing has changed about there being high performers, average performers, and below average performers. But everything has changed about how we approach healthy and, I'd argue, necessary competition.

 

[BirdinHand]

Unrelated to my comment about competition, the benefit of different levels of classes, and "participation trophies" vs acknowledgement of the best performances - but okay, technology has advanced. We certainly don't disagree.

Nothing has changed about there being high performers, average performers, and below average performers. But everything has changed about how we approach healthy and, I'd argue, necessary competition.

How so?

 

[gbg3]

How so?

Competition has been squashed and participation trophies have become the norm. SAT/ACT tests are often optional, now even in some of our highest ranked universities. Testing in general, is now declared "too stressful". Accelerated classes are being removed in some high schools.
The overall goal has been to limit and force all students into an average or less than average category, apparently so no one feels left out. Meanwhile, today's public school students often aren't even performing at their own grade level and the outcomes are increasingly growing worse.
Public schools are failing and are far less successful than they were just a generation ago.
Thus, school choice and vouchers are alive and well and parents are clamoring for more of it. It's the current trend, growing very rapidly, and I hope it's just getting started.

 

[reflechissez]

Competition has been squashed and participation trophies have become the norm. SAT/ACT tests are often optional, now even in some of our highest ranked universities. Testing in general, is now declared "too stressful". Accelerated classes are being removed in some high schools.
The overall goal has been to limit and force all students into an average or less than average category, apparently so no one feels left out. Meanwhile, today's public school students often aren't even performing at their own grade level and the outcomes are increasingly growing worse.
Public schools are failing and are far less successful than they were just a generation ago.
Thus, school choice and vouchers are alive and well and parents are clamoring for more of it. It's the current trend, growing very rapidly, and I hope it's just getting started.

Unsubstantiated opinions noted.

 

[nota bene]

Competition has been squashed and participation trophies have become the norm. SAT/ACT tests are often optional, now even in some of our highest ranked universities. Testing in general, is now declared "too stressful". Accelerated classes are being removed in some high schools.
The overall goal has been to limit and force all students into an average or less than average category, apparently so no one feels left out. Meanwhile, today's public school students often aren't even performing at their own grade level and the outcomes are increasingly growing worse.
Public schools are failing and are far less successful than they were just a generation ago.
Thus, school choice and vouchers are alive and well and parents are clamoring for more of it. It's the current trend, growing very rapidly, and I hope it's just getting started.

You may find this of interest: https://dnyuz.com/2023/04/16/kids-c...hat-is-taking-on-the-education-establishment/

 

[mrjurrs]

And the problem with that is?

The same problem as Harlan Crow being Justice thomas' mother's landlord.

 

[gbg3]

You may find this of interest: https://dnyuz.com/2023/04/16/kids-c...hat-is-taking-on-the-education-establishment/

Very interesting information about the value of and need for phonics!

 

[vesper]

I'm a grandmother now and things have changed substantially since I went to a public school as a kid.
Back then, competition was a huge part of school. Teachers would announce which students got the very highest score on a test, students were moved into accelerated classes when they were academically bored in a grade level class and, conversely, students who couldn't keep up were moved into a slower class where they could keep up. Even in physical fitness, we had the John Kennedy physical fitness program incorporated into our gym classes. We also had field day where only the top performers got ribbons. There were blue, red, and white ribbons and no "participation" trophies.
This competition was tough at times. For example, I couldn't climb a rope (part of the Kennedy program) and I was quite embarrassed during that activity. But I was an excellent math student and I was allowed to be in an accelerated math class which moved quickly and kept us interested and progressing at a challenging clip. Meanwhile, I could still be best friends with the girl who could climb the rope the fastest and struggled in math.
Competition was good and children could excel at THEIR pace while not being held back or pushed too hard due to a goal of trying to force everyone into the same box, give everyone a participation award, and avoid congratulating the student who got the highest test score because not every student did.

The first time I was exposed to "participation awards" was going to watch my grandkids' sports events in grade school. Heck, they didn't even keep score........but the kids did.

 

[gbg3]

The first time I was exposed to "participation awards" was going to watch my grandkids' sports events in grade school. Heck, they didn't even keep score........but the kids did.

Lol, I love that the kids did! And I bet they (especially) congratulated, admired, and high fived the top scorers - giving that group the kudos they deserved.

 

[vesper]

Lol, I love that the kids did! And I bet they (especially) congratulated, admired, and high fived the top scorers - giving that group the kudos they deserved.

Sure they did. But there is one thing I believe that needs to change in jr high and high school in districts around me is they allow kids to continue in sports with a grade average of 1.5. The grade average to continue to play sports should be no less than 2.0. If football, basketball, soccer, wrestling etc. be their life, it should be an incentive to put in a little more effort.

 

[roguenuke]

Here's just one of many problems with voucher programs.

They are currently looking at vouchers in NC.

Lets just look at the logistics of how the voucher program could work in let's say Haywood county NC. Haywood county has currently 6800+ public school children. They have 6 private schools, and only 2 enroll over 100 students (but less than 200 each) and one of those is only PreK and K. One of the other private schools is specifically for kids with disabilities and is a boarding school. The other 3 schools are all Christian schools w/ one having 55 students, one 17 students and one 13 students. How many teachers do you think they have at most at any of these schools? How many students can any of these schools legitimately take in, if they were even willing to do so? These private schools can absolutely refuse anyone for refusing to say participate in prayers. Hell, this is less than 300 students that could even probably be private schooled in this county with the current setup and 235 students are already enrolled. So that means maybe a few dozen students could even potentially have a choice to go to a private in Haywood county from public school.

This is just a single county in our state. there are much bigger counties, which although they may have more private schools, also already serve about as many students as those schools already feel they can, with maybe only a few to a few dozen open seats available. Any new schools are almost certainly going to be "Trump University" style, for profit schools.