Why Progressives Should Support the Draft

[Indy]

I'm not sure if an editorial piece belongs in *breaking news* but I wasn't sure. Mods, if I misplaced this thread please move to the appropriate location.

With that said, I found this to be one of the strongest arguments in favor of a draft that I have ever heard. I also think its very interesting because you don't really know what this woman's political ideology is except that she doesn't like McCain or the war. Before the chickenhawks start screaming of her "liberal bias" there are PLENTY of conservatives who disagree with the war and don't like McCain so don't use that cop out excuse. Comments are welcome.

Full Story Here

The growing disconnect between the military and the rest of society has increasingly caught the attention of sociologists, political scientists and others who study contemporary society. Samuel Huntington, in his study, The Soldier and the State, said the armed services have "the outlook of an estranged minority." More ominously retired Admiral Stanley Arthur has suggested that, "The armed forces are no longer representative of the people they serve. More and more, enlisted as well as officers are beginning to feel that they are special, better than the society they serve." Thomas Ricks echoes this concern in Making the Corps, asserting that "U.S. military personnel of all ranks are feeling increasingly alienated from their own country, and are becoming more conservative and more politically active than ever before."

I think there is quite a bit of truth to the arguments made in this editorial. Only 3% of the American population has a direct connection tot he war through an immediate family member. Of course the populous is going to be less than motivated to contradict those who have served. At the same time though, this 3% is becoming a minority group that feels both segregated fromt he rest of society and superior for serving regardless of what the original reasons were for joining the military. Our nation has gotten to the point where "patriotism" is a title that is bought with service and no longer earned with actual accomplishments that show utter selflessness and a true desire for the betterment of our nation as a whole.

Now that I'm done, let the flaming begin.

 

[DarkWizard12]

there are no such thing as progressives anymore. They died out. There is only suicidel socialists today.

 

[Red_Dave]

I'm not sure if an editorial piece belongs in *breaking news* but I wasn't sure. Mods, if I misplaced this thread please move to the appropriate location.

With that said, I found this to be one of the strongest arguments in favor of a draft that I have ever heard. I also think its very interesting because you don't really know what this woman's political ideology is except that she doesn't like McCain or the war. Before the chickenhawks start screaming of her "liberal bias" there are PLENTY of conservatives who disagree with the war and don't like McCain so don't use that cop out excuse. Comments are welcome.

Full Story Here



I think there is quite a bit of truth to the arguments made in this editorial. Only 3% of the American population has a direct connection tot he war through an immediate family member. Of course the populous is going to be less than motivated to contradict those who have served. At the same time though, this 3% is becoming a minority group that feels both segregated fromt he rest of society and superior for serving regardless of what the original reasons were for joining the military. Our nation has gotten to the point where "patriotism" is a title that is bought with service and no longer earned with actual accomplishments that show utter selflessness and a true desire for the betterment of our nation as a whole.

Now that I'm done, let the flaming begin.

I think his argument falls apart when you consider there was a draft during the vietnam era and that didnt stop that "dumb war" [at least not by itself]. But on the whole i think the best argument against the draft is that conscripted soldiers dont tend to be any good as they need to be motivated in order to win wars. Thats why the U.S could never have won Vietnam.

 

[danarhea]

I'm not sure if an editorial piece belongs in *breaking news* but I wasn't sure. Mods, if I misplaced this thread please move to the appropriate location.

With that said, I found this to be one of the strongest arguments in favor of a draft that I have ever heard. I also think its very interesting because you don't really know what this woman's political ideology is except that she doesn't like McCain or the war. Before the chickenhawks start screaming of her "liberal bias" there are PLENTY of conservatives who disagree with the war and don't like McCain so don't use that cop out excuse. Comments are welcome.

Full Story Here



I think there is quite a bit of truth to the arguments made in this editorial. Only 3% of the American population has a direct connection tot he war through an immediate family member. Of course the populous is going to be less than motivated to contradict those who have served. At the same time though, this 3% is becoming a minority group that feels both segregated fromt he rest of society and superior for serving regardless of what the original reasons were for joining the military. Our nation has gotten to the point where "patriotism" is a title that is bought with service and no longer earned with actual accomplishments that show utter selflessness and a true desire for the betterment of our nation as a whole.

Now that I'm done, let the flaming begin.

I have 2 points to make:

1) On soldiers feeling superior, I am not sure. They generally get the shaft from the administration, along with a lot of our society. They are called grunts, sometimes spit on when they get home (such as in Vietnam), generally taken for granted, and usually kicked to the curb once the government has no more use for them. I am not sure how that could translate into feelings of superiority. Maybe it is the intellectual elite that wrote the article who feels he is better than everybody else.

2) Republicans are not the ones who drafted our soldiers into Vietnam. It was the Democrats, including some of those who called themselves "progressive". I don't believe there is any high horse for them to sit on.

 

[Indy]

I don't think the point of the editorial was to sit on a high horse or claim one party is better than another. I'm sure the writer has more of a leaning towards the left than the right but I think the editorial sits well on its own merit.

I do think though that we are seeing a bit of a superiority complex mixed with a feeling of rejection from society at large with our soldiers. They are praised for being heroes, when that's just not the case in every situation, but the next minute they are denied treatment for PTS at the veterans clinics. Its a bit of a catch 22 for our soldiers and I think a draft like what's found in other countries such as South Korea could be a good thing. If everyone is required to serve for a year or two when they turn 18 you will see less politicizing of our military because both sides have an equal stake in it.

Wouldn't it be great if our country could start talking about real issues instead of constantly bickering about the military and the war?

 

[Kandahar]

I'm not sure if an editorial piece belongs in *breaking news* but I wasn't sure. Mods, if I misplaced this thread please move to the appropriate location.

With that said, I found this to be one of the strongest arguments in favor of a draft that I have ever heard. I also think its very interesting because you don't really know what this woman's political ideology is except that she doesn't like McCain or the war. Before the chickenhawks start screaming of her "liberal bias" there are PLENTY of conservatives who disagree with the war and don't like McCain so don't use that cop out excuse. Comments are welcome.

Full Story Here



I think there is quite a bit of truth to the arguments made in this editorial. Only 3% of the American population has a direct connection tot he war through an immediate family member. Of course the populous is going to be less than motivated to contradict those who have served. At the same time though, this 3% is becoming a minority group that feels both segregated fromt he rest of society and superior for serving regardless of what the original reasons were for joining the military. Our nation has gotten to the point where "patriotism" is a title that is bought with service and no longer earned with actual accomplishments that show utter selflessness and a true desire for the betterment of our nation as a whole.

Now that I'm done, let the flaming begin.

I really don't see how this is a good argument for a draft. Perhaps it is true that soldiers feel isolated and superior...but is that really a sufficient justification for conscripting millions of people, forcing them into involuntary servitude, forcing them to kill, and possibly ruining their lives? Which is the greater evil here?

Besides, a volunteer military is simply more efficient than a conscripted military. If everyone shares a goal and wants to be there, they're more likely to work well with other soldiers, as opposed to someone who never wanted to be in the military and whose only goal is to not get killed or maimed.

 

[John1234]

The problem with the draft is not what most people make it out to be.

Of those that oppose any draft of any kind...

Most do not really oppose either the draft or their own personal service to their country.
What they oppose is the war itself.

For example:

If i was of drafting age during Vietnam or Korea, i would have moved to Canada in a heartbeat.
I do not believe in the reasons for going to war.

But if i was of legal age and alive during World War 2, I might have joined up even before I was drafted.
Because I believe strongly in America's role during that war.
(Except for using the atom bomb, I do not agree with that what so ever)

I am strongly against the draft.
But that is only because i am strongly against the 3 main wars my country has launched surrounding my lifetime.

Give me a just cause to go to war and tell me that my country needs me, and i am there.

 

[aegyptos]

Now that I'm done, let the flaming begin.

No flaming from me. I think we are in danger of raising up a military caste. Not only that but the volunteer military is too small to serve the needs of the foreign policy that we have been burdened with since 1945.

I think if we are going to continue attempting to correct the mistakes of the British Empire and service international demands with our blood and treasure, we should have a draft in this country and one with no exemptions except for physical, mental or criminal unfitness. Given the complexity of the modern military the term of service should be three years.

 

[Hatuey]

No flaming from me. I think we are in danger of raising up a military caste. Not only that but the volunteer military is too small to serve the needs of the foreign policy that we have been burdened with since 1945.

I think if we are going to continue attempting to correct the mistakes of the British Empire and service international demands with our blood and treasure, we should have a draft in this country and one with no exemptions except for physical, mental or criminal unfitness. Given the complexity of the modern military the term of service should be three years.

I don't believe in drafts. They have a funny way of picking out the sons & daughters of the poor & somehow skipping rich people. However, if it's truly a fair draft where there are no exceptions except for those you cited, I'm all for it. Don't hold your breath.

 

[aegyptos]

However, if it's truly a fair draft where there are no exceptions except for those you cited, I'm all for it. Don't hold your breath.

No, I'm not holding my breath. I not holding my breath on any problem that challenges us. The best Congress money can buy refuses to face any problem while they service special interests who donate.

 

[new coup for you]

I should support the draft purely because it's egalitarian?

How about we all join the Peace Corps together instead of bombing people; that's egalitarian and no one has to die.

 

[aegyptos]

The Peace Corps serves no vital US national interest and is not a substitute for national military service which is what we are talking about. After you serve in the Army you can always do a stint in the Peace Corps if you want.

 

[new coup for you]

What vital interest does serving in Iraq serve?

The Peace Corps serves the vital interest of making people in developing countries not hate Americans so much.

The Peace Corps has without a doubt prevented more terrorism then the Iraq war.

 

[quatrotritikali]

I think that the United States should establish a Draft and require everyone (male and female) to enlist for at least two years. This is done in Israel and seems to work just fine.

By making it mandatory to enlist for two years, military service can provide such things as discipline, responsibility and a sense of pride, skills that a person can use in civilian life, a solid career if people remain in the military after their two-year mandatory service.

 

[Kandahar]

By making it mandatory to enlist for two years, military service can provide such things as discipline, responsibility and a sense of pride, skills that a person can use in civilian life, a solid career if people remain in the military after their two-year mandatory service.

People can also learn discipline, responsibility, pride, skills they can use in a civilian life, and develop a solid career by attending college. And without the PTSD.

 

[new coup for you]

...and without the sloped forehead machoism. Have you ever met any Israeli's quatro? They're the single most unbearably macho people in the entire industrialized world, they're as bad as the ****ing arabs.

 

[128shot]

Germany has 2 year manadatory servitude toward country.

Either military or a civilian option, for those not interested in the mil.

 

[quatrotritikali]

People can also learn discipline, responsibility, pride, skills they can use in a civilian life, and develop a solid career by attending college. And without the PTSD.

Well, that may be true. However, people with minor juvenile problems, or minor criminal records would greatly benefit from a military discipline. They would also be taught responsibility, and a skill or trade that can carry over into civilian life. Oh, and they can get their college paid for if they wish to further their education. The military can teach people things that the parents wouldn't or couldn't teach. Military service is a way out of poverty, especially for single people.

All draftees would not have to serve in combat positions. There are plenty of ways in which young people can serve in the armed forces without going into battle.

 

[Kandahar]

Well, that may be true. However, people with minor juvenile problems, or minor criminal records would greatly benefit from a military discipline. They would also be taught responsibility, and a skill or trade that can carry over into civilian life. Oh, and they can get their college paid for if they wish to further their education. The military can teach people things that the parents wouldn't or couldn't teach. Military service is a way out of poverty, especially for single people.

All draftees would not have to serve in combat positions. There are plenty of ways in which young people can serve in the armed forces without going into battle.

You are overlooking the fact that military service would CEASE to be a way out of poverty, and the military couldn't possibly pay for everyone's college education, if we had a draft. Our government simply does not have that kind of money. A draft would necessarily result in drastic cuts to the pay and benefits of our soldiers.

 

[aegyptos]

What vital interest does serving in Iraq serve?

None.

The Peace Corps serves the vital interest of making people in developing countries not hate Americans so much.

Propaganda and nonsense.

The Peace Corps has without a doubt prevented more terrorism then the Iraq war.

Unsupported assertion. Its unlikly that the Peace Corps has ever had a measureable effect on anything. A waste of resources.

 

[rathi]

A draft would hurt military effectiveness and cost vast sums of money. Lacking any sort of drastic Emergency, there is no reason for a draft. Having smaller numbers of volunteer soldiers is much more useful too the military than vast numbers of conscripts. Modern wars are not full scale wars of attrition anymore. Smaller forces with peacekeeper and counter-insurgency training is what the modern battlefield needs.

 

[aegyptos]

If you support the foreign policy the US has been on since WW2 you must realize that the current Armed Forces are inadequate to the needs of the empire.

 

[John1234]

If you support the foreign policy the US has been on since WW2 you must realize that the current Armed Forces are inadequate to the needs of the empire.

Empire?
When i hear that word it either makes me think of Darth Vader or McCain.
And both are unpleasant thoughts.

I have no desire to be a part of anything that would be called an "Empire".
But if it is our goal to become this "global empire", then i wonder if we will scrap the word President.

Emperor McCain... now thats scary.

 

[bhkad]

I don't think the point of the editorial was to sit on a high horse or claim one party is better than another. I'm sure the writer has more of a leaning towards the left than the right but I think the editorial sits well on its own merit.

I do think though that we are seeing a bit of a superiority complex mixed with a feeling of rejection from society at large with our soldiers. They are praised for being heroes, when that's just not the case in every situation, but the next minute they are denied treatment for PTS at the veterans clinics. Its a bit of a catch 22 for our soldiers and I think a draft like what's found in other countries such as South Korea could be a good thing. If everyone is required to serve for a year or two when they turn 18 you will see less politicizing of our military because both sides have an equal stake in it.

Wouldn't it be great if our country could start talking about real issues instead of constantly bickering about the military and the war?

The only people who are rushing for us to withdraw have no understanding of the nature of Islamism and how it's goal is to take over Iraq and make it a totalitarian state and then move on to the next nation and that cancer must be stopped while it is small.

The other people who are rushing to get us out of Iraq are the politicians and media who are ignorant or catering to the ignorance of the populace rather than trying to educate them.

And of course the strongest supporters of our withdrawal are the Jihadists themselves and their supporters.

And an aside to Danarrhea: The term "Grunt" in reference to Infantrymen is not an offensive term or slur. It's a title mixed with pride along with the blood, sweat, tears, gore, fear, exhilaration, boredom and discomfort that is the life of the Infantrymen.

They keep us safe whether we understand their world or not.

 

[bhkad]

I should support the draft purely because it's egalitarian?

How about we all join the Peace Corps together instead of bombing people; that's egalitarian and no one has to die.

"A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan." - Martin Luther King Jr.

Those of this generation who turn their heads from the Islamist cancer we are in Iraq to try to arrest now would rather have to deal with Jihad only after it is serious enough of a threat to really threaten the world...when the outcome might not be assured.

Here's news for you.

It's not assured now.

And the reason it isn't is precisely due to your insistence on buying the demise of freedom one little bit at a time.