Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581:1781]

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

There is no evidence to the contrary, just evidence that can or cannot support a statement/claim/concept, etc.



Aye, aye, sir!



I beg to differ.

Proving an impossible is impossible. Why claim it?

Rephrased: what evidence do you have that gods are not possible?

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Atheists won't speculate on how the universe was created because there aren't enough facts. I get that. Why won't atheists speculate on how (or if) the universe was created when it's well known the universe exists? Wait, sidenote, they will speculate there is/are no gods when they won't speculate on how the universe was created.

What proof do you have that it was created? Why bring a magic being into it? Which magic being? All religions have a different creation myth.

 

[cabse5]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

You missed the point which was about all gods being fictional characters. They will remain fictional characters until somebody comes up with proof of the existence of a god.

A proof of a god might be the universe. Get it? How was the universe created/how did it come into existence?

 

[cabse5]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

What proof do you have that it was created?

The universe exists. That is possibly started as nothing and came to become the vastness of the universe. No, I agree it's possible the universe expanded due to atomic, subatomic, 'natural' activities but how did it first become that infinitely small, dense, hot, mess?

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Rephrased: what evidence do you have that gods are not possible?

The fact that none have been found as of even date counts as evidence.

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

The universe exists.

What proof do you have that it was created? It could be the result of a natural process without a god.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

The fact that none have been found as of even date counts as evidence.

Gravitons have not been found. Are they possible?

Parallel universes and other dimensions have not been found. Are they possible?

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Rephrased: what evidence do you have that gods are not possible?

Much like other logically driven minds, I too do not allow myself to use logical fallacies such as proving the unknown and appealing to the unknown.

So, other than this English grammar issue, what else is there to support that this "god" concept exists?

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Much like other logically driven minds, I too do not allow myself to use logical fallacies such as proving the unknown and appealing to the unknown.

So, other than this English grammar issue, what else is there to support that this "god" concept exists?

Same question

Gravitons have not been found. Are they possible?

Parallel universes and other dimensions have not been found. Are they possible?

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Atheists won't speculate on how the universe was created because there aren't enough facts. I get that. Why won't atheists speculate on how (or if) the universe was created when it's well known the universe exists? Wait, sidenote, they will speculate there is/are no gods while they won't speculate on how the universe was created.

Again,

If you want speculation and theories on what science considers to be causes as to how the universe was made, have a go at "Origins of Life" thread right here in DP.

What I meant to say, DDD, was reexamine my post made at 7:45AM today. Changes were made reflecting my misunderstanding of you position on existence of gods (still kinda confused). I am cabse5.

Let me clarify then, I hold the atheistic position: There is no reason to believe that there is a "god" because there is no actual empirical evidence to support such a claim.

BTW, if Gandalf created the universe, Gandalf would be considered a god, no? Or a previous poster's reference to a big snot? Yeah, if a big snot created the universe, a big snot would be considered a god.

To some religious posters here, illogical fallacies of appealing to the unknown and attempting to prove a negative is enough to believe that fictional characters such as this "god" and Gandalf are real. So on the same grounds I was testing the poster since Gandalf creating the universe cannot be established to be impossible, then perhaps the poster would believe that Gandalf is like or equal to "god" also.

Finally, my position is: atheism is a faith-based ideology. Contrary to what all atheists say.

On what does this position stands on? What evidence?

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Same question

And very interesting questions indeed. They do deserve their own threads so as not to hijack this one, do you not agree?

Now to get back to the topic of this thread:

Other than this English grammar issue, what else is there to support that this "god" concept exists and has created the universe?

 

[cabse5]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Much like other logically driven minds, I too do not allow myself to use logical fallacies such as proving the unknown and appealing to the unknown.

So, other than this English grammar issue, what else is there to support that this "god" concept exists?

Why is the Hadron Collider in Switzerland so popular? To prove the 'natural' existence of creation, for example. Why the kick by physicists to study the existence of dark matter? For one reason, to prove the 'natural' existence of creation. Logical minds (like physicists) want to know how the universe was created because there is a universe.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

And very interesting questions indeed. They do deserve their own threads so as not to hijack this one, do you not agree?

Now to get back to the topic of this thread:

Other than this English grammar issue, what else is there to support that this "god" concept exists and has created the universe?

No. I do not agree. Gravitons, muli-universes, other dimensions, gods...all are in the same sphere--things that are possible.

 

[RAMOSS]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I am not an agnostic troll, William...but I understand why some would want to paint me that way. It is easier than dealing with the issues I raise.

If a thing is not impossible...it simply is possible.

There is nothing difficult or unreasonable about that. The fact that you cannot acknowledge that...should, if you have any kind of open mind, clue you in to the fact that YOU are being unreasonable in this discussion.

Anyway...it is possible what we humans call "the universe"...is a creation...so the answer to the title question is a variation on, "Why not?"

It is also possible that this universe is eternal, or not a creation either.

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

No. I do not agree. Gravitons, muli-universes, other dimensions, gods...all are in the same sphere--things that are possible.

I am afraid that compared to the equal share in weight in individual level that we all have in creating meaning socially, whether you agree on staying on topic or not is independent whether you agree on it or not as per DP rules. Thy shall stay on topic and not hijack this thread, or you can be reported.

So, any luck at finding what else is there to support that this "god" concept exists and has created the universe other than English grammar?

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Why is the Hadron Collider in Switzerland so popular? To prove the 'natural' existence of creation, for example. Why the kick by physicists to study the existence of dark matter? For one reason, to prove the 'natural' existence of creation. Logical minds (like physicists) want to know how the universe was created because there is a universe.

As with studying the cosmos, studying the subatomic universe goes a long way to showing gods are not necessary to account for specific phenomena. If we can eliminate the need for all but the most stubborn to invoke gods in order to explain what lies beneath our physical world, I'd consider that man's greatest achievement.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I am afraid that compared to the equal share in weight in individual level that we all have in creating meaning socially, whether you agree on staying on topic or not is independent whether you agree on it or not as per DP rules. Thy shall stay on topic and not hijack this thread, or you can be reported.

So, any luck at finding what else is there to support that this "god" concept exists and has created the universe other than English grammar?

They (gravitons, multi-universes and gods) are on topic. Sad to see you cannot debate in good faith.

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Why is the Hadron Collider in Switzerland so popular? To prove the 'natural' existence of creation, for example. Why the kick by physicists to study the existence of dark matter? For one reason, to prove the 'natural' existence of creation. Logical minds (like physicists) want to know how the universe was created because there is a universe.

Semantics,

Yes they are out there to see how creation occurs naturally. But the debate for this thread is about whether the Universe was created or not from a certain religious "god" concept?

 

[cabse5]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

It is also possible that this universe is eternal, or not a creation either.

Yes, exactly, a possibility. Atheists, however, jump on (and won't jump off) the probability there is no god in the creation of the universe when there aren't ANY good candidates for creation.

Someone or something created the universe. If the universe has always been there, it started from a hot, dense, nothing (at least this universe). That's what physicists say and why I say atheism is a faith-based ideology.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

It is also possible that this universe is eternal, or not a creation either.

Of course. In fact, I rather suspect that it is eternal.

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

They (gravitons, multi-universes and gods) are on topic. Sad to see you cannot debate in good faith.

How is the topic about multi-universes? And how is the topic about gravitons?

Plus, looking back at your post, in 1538, you speak of your own beliefs. I do not care what your personal beliefs are. I care about what evidence is used to support assertions made.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Semantics,

Yes they are out there to see how creation occurs naturally. But the debate for this thread is about whether the Universe was created or not from a certain religious "god" concept?

I suggest you reread the op. Here. I'll make it easy for you.

Setting aside any religious dogma. Why is it easier for some of us to consider this universe and its entirety happened by chance rather than conscious calculation? I don't think its fair to try and justify the psychology of a creator of the universe in this post. (i.e: Why is there evil?)
I'm honestly curious why it is easier to assume chaotic randomness as opposed to a calculated design.

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Yes, exactly, a possibility. Atheists, however, jump on (and won't jump off) the probability there is no god in the creation of the universe when there aren't ANY good candidates for creation. Why I say atheism is a faith-based ideology.

Still asking you to prove the assertion that all atheists "jump on (and won't jump off) the probability there is no god in the creation of the universe when there aren't ANY good candidates for creation" which I agree then would make them "faith-based ideology."

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

How is the topic about multi-universes? And how is the topic about gravitons?

Plus, looking back at your post, in 1538, you speak of your own beliefs. I do not care what your personal beliefs are. I care about what evidence is used to support assertions made.

It's a thread about the creation of the universe--design or not. Simple enough. No?

Gravitons, mulit-universes, other dimensions, and gods are all part of that discussion. As would be any theorizing about what might have been happening before the Big Bang.

BTW: all of which are possible.

 

[DDD]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I suggest you reread the op. Here. I'll make it easy for you.

No gravitons or multi-universes mentioned.