Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581:1781]

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

The first part, the "if something is not impossible." That bares no ground for the following part in the axiom "it is possible." Reasons as mentioned are: You cannot prove a something which is impossible, you cannot get evidence for an impossibility, (unless you appeal to the unknown) because it is an attempt to prove a negative.

But do not take my word for it. Do assert the "self evident" axiom in a statement. What is the "something" that if it is not "impossible" it magically becomes possible? And support that "something" with evidence if you can?

Does not matter. If it is not impossible it is possible. This includes things which are unbelievable. It's simply a point of language.

No one said you have to believe things which you find unbelievable. But, if it's not impossible, it is most definitely possible.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Do quote the post when that was done?

Uh, you and the atheist crew having an ape-**** over Frank saying gods are possible.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Cal,

I appreciate you want to keep an open mind by asserting that some atheists may believe on faith that there are no gods when they should have remained open and wait for actual empirical evidence before believing or not. It may be that for that reason you are prescribing to illogical statements such as "If something is not impossible..." which provides no grounds to whatever it may follow later.

But if one has to keep an open mind then one also needs to be wary of logical fallacies and approach the truth with reality tests rather than faith and mindless repetition, correct?

False. You can believe what you want. I myself do not believe in gods.

But, they are possible.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Some might say, anything that is possible, given enough time, is inevitable.

Yup.

There are many who would say that in a universe that is infinite and eternal...anything that is possible...is inevitable.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Under what circumstances would a magic god be possible?

Ahhhh...the "magic god" question.

Good for a laugh...but not much else.

In any case, if there is the possibility of a god...there is the possibility of "the universe" being a creation.

Deciding to "believe" either way seems a waste...but not illogical.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Does not matter. If it is not impossible it is possible. This includes things which are unbelievable. It's simply a point of language.

No one said you have to believe things which you find unbelievable. But, if it's not impossible, it is most definitely possible.

Absolutely, Calamity.

If a thing is not impossible...it is possible.

Why these good people are attempting to mock that...or consider it wrong...is beyond understanding.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Absolutely, Calamity.

If a thing is not impossible...it is possible.

Why these good people are attempting to mock that...or consider it wrong...is beyond understanding.

I know. Once you showed me the issue: that what is not impossible is, of course, possible, and that there is no concrete evidence indicating whether gods exit or not; then it became rather clear. We do not know whether there are gods or not.

Why the people disputing this rather simple concept cannot understand that saying something is possible is not saying that they must believe in gods is baffling. There is no evidence supporting the existence of gods. Therefore, it is perfectly acceptable to say, "I do not believe gods exist." But, that's about all we can say. The matter is, of course, unknown.

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Uh, you and the atheist crew having an ape-**** over Frank saying gods are possible.

Not really. It's like saying that Gandalf and Saruman could possibly exist. The word fictional has a specific meaning and I have never seen any evidence that proves that gods are not fictional.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Not really. It's like saying that Gandalf and Saruman are possible.

It is that atheistic faith that causes that kind of thinking, Z.

It is that kind of thinking that causes some people to think, erroneously in my opinion, that atheism is a religion.

The fact that you treat it as a theist treats his/her religion, however, does not make it a religion.

In any case, gods are possible...and it also is possible that what we humans call "the universe" IS a creation.

Obviously we do not know if it is or not.

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Primitive man sees a volcano erupting and invents a volcano god. Primitive Norsemen invent a thunder god. How can fictional characters have a real existence? Why invent a god to create the universe?

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Primitive man sees a volcano erupting and invents a volcano god. Primitive Norsemen invent a thunder god. How can fictional characters have a real existence? Why invent a god to create the universe?

If your faith requires that you exclude the possibility of the existence of a god...go with it.

There are theists whose faith requires they not question the existence of a god...and to them, I say, go with your faith.

It's a free country.

 

[Tim the plumber]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Originally Posted by zyzygy View Post
Primitive man sees a volcano erupting and invents a volcano god. Primitive Norsemen invent a thunder god. How can fictional characters have a real existence? Why invent a god to create the universe?

If your faith requires that you exclude the possibility of the existence of a god...go with it.

There are theists whose faith requires they not question the existence of a god...and to them, I say, go with your faith.

It's a free country.

You have deliberately(?) misrepresented his words.

He does not say that a god/God is not possible but asks why would you invent a god to deal with the origin of the universe. That is very different.

The attempt to make yourself look clever has the effect of making you look not honest.

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

If your faith requires that you exclude the possibility of the existence of a god...go with it.

There are theists whose faith requires they not question the existence of a god...and to them, I say, go with your faith.

It's a free country.

Atheism is not a faith. Can not collecting stamps be called a hobby? Why do you never answer a question? Why the need to invent a magic being to explain the existence of the universe? Not to mention how this magic being came into existence. Gods are inventions of the human mind, in my opinion. Saying that fictional characters may exist seems rather silly to me. Perhaps you should stick to golf.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

You have deliberately(?) misrepresented his words.

He does not say that a god/God is not possible but asks why would you invent a god to deal with the origin of the universe. That is very different.

The attempt to make yourself look clever has the effect of making you look not honest.

No...I am not being dishonest...but in effect, you are.

His intent was clear...talking about primitive peoples inventing things...and then questioning the possibility of a god.

If you cannot see it...I cannot help you.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Atheism is not a faith.

I agree...which causes me to wonder why YOU treat it as a faith.

Can not collecting stamps be called a hobby?

Nope.

Why do you never answer a question?

I answer every question put to me in this forum.

Why the need to invent a magic being to explain the existence of the universe?

There is no reason...and I would NEVER do it.

Not to mention how this magic being came into existence. Gods are inventions of the human mind, in my opinion. Saying that fictional characters may exist seems rather silly to me. Perhaps you should stick to golf.

Gods are possible.

Why not acknowledge that...or will YOUR faith prevent you from doing so?

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

No...I am not being dishonest...but in effect, you are.

His intent was clear...talking about primitive peoples inventing things...and then questioning the possibility of a god.

If you cannot see it...I cannot help you.

He does not need your help. Are you saying that the Romans did not invent Jupiter and there is a possibility that Jupiter exists? How many of these gods could exist and how many are human inventions?

Godchecker.com - Your Guide To The Gods

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I agree...which causes me to wonder why YOU treat it as a faith.

I don't. You do.

 

[zyzygy]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I answer every question put to me in this forum.

You haven't answered mine yet.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

He does not need your help. Are you saying that the Romans did not invent Jupiter and there is a possibility that Jupiter exists? How many of these gods could exist and how many are human inventions?

Godchecker.com - Your Guide To The Gods

At no point am I saying any of that.

Stop that nonsense, Z.

What I am saying...and what you ought to be dealing with...is that it is possible that gods exist.

Are you disagreeing?

Are you saying it is impossible for gods to exist?

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I don't. You do.

I treat my agnosticism as "I do not know." Not as a belief system.

You DO treat your atheism (or whatever you call it) as faith.

But we are getting off the topic.

Since it is possible that gods exist...it is possible that what we humans call "the universe" is a creation.

 

[Frank Apisa]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

You haven't answered mine yet.

I answered every one you posed.

 

[calamity]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Not really. It's like saying that Gandalf and Saruman could possibly exist. The word fictional has a specific meaning and I have never seen any evidence that proves that gods are not fictional.

Gandalf and Saruman are specific characters which can be eliminated, IMO, from being real just like the Christian God and the Hindu Vishnu--again this is my opinion. Gods, however, is a pretty broad term...much harder to eliminate such a broad term.

 

[William Rea]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Gandalf and Saruman are specific characters which can be eliminated, IMO, from being real just like the Christian God and the Hindu Vishnu--again this is my opinion. Gods, however, is a pretty broad term...much harder to eliminate such a broad term.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/232279-possibly-impossible-part-one.html

 

[William Rea]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Does not matter. If it is not impossible it is possible. This includes things which are unbelievable. It's simply a point of language.

No one said you have to believe things which you find unbelievable. But, if it's not impossible, it is most definitely possible.

Well that is kind of the point because in the 'Frankiverse' the definition of 'believing' is applying reason to the tautology! He is actually demanding that you accept the dogma and that anything other than that is not the application of reason but 'guessing'. Several of us have tried to point out the absurdity of this but, he refuses to engage so, the conclusion is that this is the posting of a fundamentalist agnostic troll.

 

[William Rea]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Uh, you and the atheist crew having an ape-**** over Frank saying gods are possible.

No, another straw man. What I see is that we are disagreeing with an irrational argument and a series of smart ass posts that think they are more clever than they are.