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Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581:1781]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Dittohead not! said:
"All that we see or seem,
Is but a dream within a dream."

Edgar Allan Poe.
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He was drunk when he wrote that. He was fond of the bottle.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

If gods exist then what do they do all day?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
He was drunk when he wrote that. He was fond of the bottle.
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Wasn't he always drunk when he wrote?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

csbrown28 said:
A very sophist point a view.

I am an atheist only in so much as it makes me easy to identify and keeps me from having to talk (or type) for 5 minutes every time someone asks as there isn't an adequate word to describe my philosophical ideas. Having said that. I would agree with you that there are a lot of people that call themselves atheists for the same underlying reasons that that people become thiests. Many don't really understand their ideas they just feel like they are right. Which of course what makes it so difficult to identify as atheist. It's like saying "I'm a Texan". It may conjure mental images of what a person is, but truthfully it tells you almost nothing about a person.

I have railed against the idea that atheism and agnosticism are different and most atheists that I've had the chance to talk to, especially in person agree and appreciate the distinction, but while the explanation may be satisfying, for many it just leads to another dark room of unanswered questions. Now you either spend your time trying to shed light into those rooms or you fall back and assume you already know what's there.

So I'm curious, am I nonsensical?
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Not at all.

You are dealing with the question "What is the true nature of the REALITY of existence?"...and dealing adequately with the fact that probably none of us will know with any sense of certainty.

Your views are interesting...and many I agree with. Some I disagree. Some I have no considerations about.

I thank you for presenting them civilly and respectfully...which many here do not do.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Or it could be a dream within a dream within a dream.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
I was knocked down by a car once. It was a very solid illusion.
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Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. (famous quote from none other than Albert Einstein)
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

RAMOSS said:
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. (famous quote from none other than Albert Einstein)
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That car was very persistent. If only I'd known that it was a dream within a dream.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
I was knocked down by a car once. It was a very solid illusion.
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Like I said, the Others around us can cause us pleasure and pain.

Thus from these sensations together with the complete change of perspective the Other can impose upon us (such as state prison), it is clear the Others exist in space and time.

The notion that nothing is real or knowable is only possible from within a pampered life where wealth of some sort has met all of one's needs and there is nothing left to do.

Howard Hughes may have wondered if anything existed outside of his hospital bed as he lay dying of dementia in his old age, but the rest of us are driven by the need to survive to get out there and do something.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
If gods exist then what do they do all day?
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They probably work just like we do. They have galaxies to attend to. They have stars to create. They have planets to organize and colonize with subject peoples.

They have to summon prophets and give laws on tables so the various peoples will not spend all their time worshipping idols, cursing, working themselves to death, killing and robbing from each other, lying, and trying to get at each other's possessions.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Riveroaks said:
Like I said, the Others around us can cause us pleasure and pain.

Thus from these sensations together with the complete change of perspective the Other can impose upon us (such as state prison), it is clear the Others exist in space and time.

The notion that nothing is real or knowable is only possible from within a pampered life where wealth of some sort has met all of one's needs and there is nothing left to do.

Howard Hughes may have wondered if anything existed outside of his hospital bed as he lay dying of dementia in his old age, but the rest of us are driven by the need to survive to get out there and do something.
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The rest of us? There are millions of people lying in bed dying of dementia in their old age at this very moment.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Riveroaks said:
They probably work just like we do. They have galaxies to attend to. They have stars to create. They have planets to organize and colonize with subject peoples.

They have to summon prophets and give laws on tables so the various peoples will not spend all their time worshipping idols, cursing, working themselves to death, killing and robbing from each other, lying, and trying to get at each other's possessions.
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I didn't know that this was a science fiction forum.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Frank Apisa said:
Not at all.

You are dealing with the question "What is the true nature of the REALITY of existence?"...and dealing adequately with the fact that probably none of us will know with any sense of certainty.

Your views are interesting...and many I agree with. Some I disagree. Some I have no considerations about.

I thank you for presenting them civilly and respectfully...which many here do not do.
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In both the micro and the macro sense of reality, at the molecular and the galactic levels, none of us will probably know -- you are correct.

But at our own humanoid level it is very easy to discern that we each have needs in order to sustain life, and attending to these needs is a very real requirement -- air to breathe, warmth and covering, shelter, food and drink, medical care, political regulation, peach and harmony. These are the daily necessities. We have been given lots to do by Nature and/or Nature's God(s) to preoccupy us a life time.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
The rest of us? There are millions of people lying in bed dying of dementia in their old age at this very moment.
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Everything on this planet must end eventually -- that is the main lesson of history.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Frank Apisa said:
One of the possibilities.

Poe is one of my favorites!
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Only that if this were truly the case then roads and bridges would never get built.

However roads and bridges have been being built for thousands of years.

Thus the original notion is a contradiction and invalid.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Riveroaks said:
Everything on this planet must end eventually -- that is the main lesson of history.
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Why did you think that Howard Hughes was unique in that he died of old age and dementia? The rest of us know that is not true.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
Why did you think that Howard Hughes was unique in that he died of old age and dementia? The rest of us know that is not true.
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That's your statement not mine. You are putting words in my mouth. Speak for yourself. Make your proposition and then defend it.

Loading the question is your fallacy.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Riveroaks said:
Howard Hughes may have wondered if anything existed outside of his hospital bed as he lay dying of dementia in his old age, but the rest of us are driven by the need to survive to get out there and do something.
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Have you forgotten about this already?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Frank Apisa said:
Not at all.

You are dealing with the question "What is the true nature of the REALITY of existence?"...and dealing adequately with the fact that probably none of us will know with any sense of certainty.

Your views are interesting...and many I agree with. Some I disagree. Some I have no considerations about.

I thank you for presenting them civilly and respectfully...which many here do not do.
Click to expand...

The lack of civility is usually linked to a sense of mental frustration, which my Taekwondo instructor once said; "Frustration is always the result of the minds inability to understand". Now, not that I understand everything (and that's why I don't get frustrated), but because I understand that there is a lot I don't know, the blessing in my opinion is that I know that I don't and I view new information not as a pain that must be accepted but with excitement that I embrace.

Wow that came out flowery....Well anyway, I can't think of a better way to say it....
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Riveroaks said:
Nothing unique about it. You asserted uniqueness to it. It's your proposition not mine.
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There was Howard Hughes and the rest of us. You said that, not me. There is no shame in admitting to a mistake. Everybody makes a mistake now and again, even you.
 
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