Why Leftist are Violent

[Quag]

you mean Hiss did not describe himself as a liberal?? Why not read "Useful Idiots" to learn about all the liberals who gave the bomb to Stalin while he was killing 60 million?? Oops? Maybe you will see yourself in the book? Do you have the courage to learn and grow?

You really need to start reading actual books and not whatever propoganda garbage you have been reading so far.
Your basic concept of terms is as far out of whack as your knowledge of history

 

[Grim17]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2w23Zc-Zfs&t=166s

This analysis by Stefan Molyneux and John Wright is outstanding.

Something I have noticed is that over the last year Hate Crime allegations against Trump supporters by Progressive Liberals have skyrocketed. Yet so far every single time one of those cases is investigated and solved it ends up being a False Flag Lie. I can not find a single exception. If someone knows of one please show it, I am honestly curious.

At the same time the most basic Google search shows scores of incidents of violence against Trump supporters. Not just allegations, video of it happening.

There were some acts of violence at Trump rallies by some of his supporters. But information released shows that without paid Democrat operatives instigating most of those incidents would have never happened.

Progressive Liberals always accuse Conservative/Libertarians of constant extreme violence. I think Vox Day nailed it when he said "If you want to know the nefarious actions or plans of Leftist pay attention to what they accuse you of."

If Trump supporters and conservatives in general, were racists and violent as the left has claimed over the last several years, there would be no need for them to manufacture fake hate crimes.

It's just that simple.


.

 

[Casca XV]

No they aren't

Yes they are.



No they arent

Yes they are.



You are confusing left with authoritarian

Feel free to tell of a Leftist policy that doesn't result in giving more power to the state.




Social issues are the only important issues for some people be they right/left, not that that has anything to do with libertarian/authoritarian

Call a Real Libertarian and they seldom take it as an insult (although they will quickly correct you). Call a Real Libertarian a Leftist and you may end up in a fist fight.

You are making the same mistake as james.


See post 240 for clairifcation

I will take a look

 

[Casca XV]

Libertarians have their own party,
Let me try again and maybe your liberal brain will finally begin to comprehend

You can be right wing and authoritarian. The American Nazi Party is an example
American Nazi Party

You can be right wing and libertarian. The Libertarian party is an example
https://www.lp.org/

You can be left wing and authoritarian. The Communist Party USA is an example
Communist Party USA – cpusa.org

You can be left wing and libertarian. The National-Anarchist Movement is an example
National-Anarchist Movement

The most fundamental flaw of Leftist Ideology (Progressive/Liberal/Socialist) is that it has no ability to exist or function without a large all powerful Government AKA a Totalitarian dictatorship. There is no way to implement any type of socialist based economy without the government running everything.

The most fundamental desire of the American Right (Conservatives/Linertrains) is a small limited power Government. For that reason they are not qualified to be called Nazi or any other type of Fascist. A free market economy functions extremely well with a Limited Power Government and Individual Freedom.

Yes, Free Market Economy can be perverted to Fascism if an all powerful government takes hold, but it is not the inevitable result. With Socialism, a Totalitarian Dictatorship is always the inevitable result.

 

[Quag]

The most fundamental flaw of Leftist Ideology (Progressive/Liberal/Socialist) is that it has no ability to exist or function without a large all powerful Government AKA a Totalitarian dictatorship. There is no way to implement any type of socialist based economy without the government running everything.

The most fundamental desire of the American Right (Conservatives/Linertrains) is a small limited power Government. For that reason they are not qualified to be called Nazi or any other type of Fascist. A free market economy functions extremely well with a Limited Power Government and Individual Freedom.

Yes, Free Market Economy can be perverted to Fascism if an all powerful government takes hold, but it is not the inevitable result. With Socialism, a Totalitarian Dictatorship is always the inevitable result.

You are confusing leftist with authoritarian. Anarchists are extreme left libertarians

 

[Casca XV]

You are confusing leftist with authoritarian. Anarchists are extreme left libertarians

You are purposefully dodging the FACT that there is absolutely no way to implement the Leftist agenda without an Authoritarian Totalitarian Dictatorship Government. I realize its heartbreaking to have your argument totally destroyed. But you have to face it, you lost this one.

People calling themselves "Anarchists" are Leftist Progressive Liberals Socialist Useful Idiots who have adopted a cool sounding name. But their adgenda/goals are the exact opposite of Anarchy.

The Left has a long history of using misleading labels to lie. The oringinal definitions of Progressive or Liberal is the exact opposite of Leftists ideology. Calling Obamacare"Affordable" is one of the biggest lies ever told.

 

[Quag]

You are purposefully dodging the FACT that there is absolutely no way to implement the Leftist agenda without an Authoritarian Totalitarian Dictatorship Government. I realize its heartbreaking to have your argument totally destroyed. But you have to face it, you lost this one.

People calling themselves "Anarchists" are Leftist Progressive Liberals Socialist Useful Idiots who have adopted a cool sounding name. But their adgenda/goals are the exact opposite of Anarchy.

The Left has a long history of using misleading labels to lie. The oringinal definitions of Progressive or Liberal is the exact opposite of Leftists ideology. Calling Obamacare"Affordable" is one of the biggest lies ever told.

Not dodging pointing out what YOU think is a leftist agenda is wrong.
Left/right is NOT the same as authoritarian/libertarian.

 

[James972]

Left/right is NOT the same as authoritarian/libertarian.

left loved authoritarian Hitler Stalin Mao Castro and wants to shut down free speech with violence!!
libertarians are for liberty from govt as is American right.
See why we are positive liberalism is based in ignorance? IS any other conclusion possible??

 

[Quag]

left loved authoritarian Hitler Stalin Mao Castro and wants to shut down free speech with violence!!
libertarians are for liberty from govt as is American right.
See why we are positive liberalism is based in ignorance? IS any other conclusion possible??

The left didn't love Hitler the right did.
As to ignorance you display it on a daily basis.

Left/right is NOT the same as authoritarian/libertarian.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

 

[James972]

The left didn't love Hitler the right did.

Feel slow now????

You want to know what Fascism is? It is like your New Deal."
-- Mussolini, during a visit to New York City


-W.E.B DuBois: (the most important black leader in the first half of the 20th Century) "Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th Century approach his stature. The formation of the Nazi dictatorship was absolutely necessary to get the state in order." In 1937 he proclaimed: "there is today more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past." (page 10)

-Guy Tugwell: (FDR Brain Trust) said of fascism: "It's the cleanest, neatest piece...of social machinery I've ever seen." ( page 11)

-Walter Lippman: called on FDR to be a "dictator." (page 11)

-H.G. Wells: "progressives must become "liberal fascists and enlightened Nazis" ( page 21)

-Wallace Stevens: "I am pro-Mussolini." ( page 27)

-Isaac F. Marcosson: in the NY Times, "Mussolini is a Latin Teddy
Roosevelt." ( page 27)

-American Legion: "do not forget, Fascists are to Italy what the American Legion is to America." ( page 27)

-Will Rogers: "I'm pretty high on Mussolini 'Dictatorship' is the right form of gov't if you have the right dictator." ( page 27)

-Saturday Evening Post: gave Mussolini biggest advance ever on article he wrote about himself. (page 32)

-Winston Churchill: dubbed Mussolini the world's greatest lawgiver (page 27)

-Freud and Einstein: called Mussolini the hero of Culture (Page 29)

-Puccini and Toscanini: both were pioneering Fascists of Mussolini (page 32)

-Ida Tarbell: called Mussolini the "despot with a dimple." ( page 28)

-Lincoln Steffens: about Russia -"I have seen the future and it works"
(page 28)

-McClures magazine: "Fascism is a 'great step forward' and the first new idea in govt' since the founding of the American Republic" ( page 28)

-John Patrick Duggins: Columbia University is "Fascism's veritable home in America and a school house for budding fascists ideologues." ( page 32)

-Nicholas Butler: (President of Columbia University) received a signed photo from Mussolini thanking him for his, "most valuable contribution to the promotion of understanding between Fascist Italy and the United States" ( page 29)

-James Farrell: (head of US Steel) Mussolini is the "greatest living man"

-Lowell Thomas: "he (Mussolini) stands out like a Modern Caesar - the answer to America's needs" (page 30)

-Jonah Goldberg; "communists and Nazis tended to vote together in the Reichstag" (page 77)

 

[Quag]

Feel slow now????

You want to know what Fascism is? It is like your New Deal."
-- Mussolini, during a visit to New York City


-W.E.B DuBois: (the most important black leader in the first half of the 20th Century) "Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th Century approach his stature. The formation of the Nazi dictatorship was absolutely necessary to get the state in order." In 1937 he proclaimed: "there is today more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past." (page 10)

-Guy Tugwell: (FDR Brain Trust) said of fascism: "It's the cleanest, neatest piece...of social machinery I've ever seen." ( page 11)

-Walter Lippman: called on FDR to be a "dictator." (page 11)

-H.G. Wells: "progressives must become "liberal fascists and enlightened Nazis" ( page 21)

-Wallace Stevens: "I am pro-Mussolini." ( page 27)

-Isaac F. Marcosson: in the NY Times, "Mussolini is a Latin Teddy
Roosevelt." ( page 27)

-American Legion: "do not forget, Fascists are to Italy what the American Legion is to America." ( page 27)

-Will Rogers: "I'm pretty high on Mussolini 'Dictatorship' is the right form of gov't if you have the right dictator." ( page 27)

-Saturday Evening Post: gave Mussolini biggest advance ever on article he wrote about himself. (page 32)

-Winston Churchill: dubbed Mussolini the world's greatest lawgiver (page 27)

-Freud and Einstein: called Mussolini the hero of Culture (Page 29)

-Puccini and Toscanini: both were pioneering Fascists of Mussolini (page 32)

-Ida Tarbell: called Mussolini the "despot with a dimple." ( page 28)

-Lincoln Steffens: about Russia -"I have seen the future and it works"
(page 28)

-McClures magazine: "Fascism is a 'great step forward' and the first new idea in govt' since the founding of the American Republic" ( page 28)

-John Patrick Duggins: Columbia University is "Fascism's veritable home in America and a school house for budding fascists ideologues." ( page 32)

-Nicholas Butler: (President of Columbia University) received a signed photo from Mussolini thanking him for his, "most valuable contribution to the promotion of understanding between Fascist Italy and the United States" ( page 29)

-James Farrell: (head of US Steel) Mussolini is the "greatest living man"

-Lowell Thomas: "he (Mussolini) stands out like a Modern Caesar - the answer to America's needs" (page 30)

-Jonah Goldberg; "communists and Nazis tended to vote together in the Reichstag" (page 77)

Wow a bunch of out of context quotes many by right wingers in support of fascists.
Why is it that you want to try and pretend fascists are left wing?
Could it be that you dont want to admit the world isn't 2 dimensional or is it that thinking in non black/white terms is to hard?

 

[Casca XV]

The left didn't love Hitler the right did.
As to ignorance you display it on a daily basis.

Left/right is NOT the same as authoritarian/libertarian.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Many historians argue that Hitler was a Leftist as well, but even if you put him on the right There is no one on the American Right who loves Hitler. Before you start with Neo Nazis they are a microscopic few and although they claim the Right the American Right doesn't claim them.

Still there are many (possibly most) mainstream American Leftists who love Stalin, Mao and Castro. Stalin killed 7 time more than Hitler and Mao was slightly worse than Stalin. Per capita of the number of people under his power Castro murdered about the same as Hitler.

 

[Casca XV]

The left didn't love Hitler the right did.
As to ignorance you display it on a daily basis.

Left/right is NOT the same as authoritarian/libertarian.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Many historians argue that Hitler was a Leftist as well, but even if you put him on the right There is no one on the American Right who loves Hitler. Before you start with Neo Nazis they are a microscopic few and although they claim the Right the American Right doesn't claim them.

Still there are many (possibly most) mainstream American Leftists who love Stalin, Mao and Castro. Stalin killed 7 time more than Hitler and Mao was slightly worse than Stalin. Per capita of the number of people under his power Castro murdered about the same as Hitler.

 

[Trippy Trekker]

Many historians argue that Hitler was a Leftist as well, but even if you put him on the right There is no one on the American Right who loves Hitler. Before you start with Neo Nazis they are a microscopic few and although they claim the Right the American Right doesn't claim them.

Still there are many (possibly most) mainstream American Leftists who love Stalin, Mao and Castro. Stalin killed 7 time more than Hitler and Mao was slightly worse than Stalin. Per capita of the number of people under his power Castro murdered about the same as Hitler.

In an effort to defer to your vast knowledge and to acknowledge my naivete, please rank the following people in terms of their political leaning using a spectrum from Extreme Left, Left, Centrist, Right, Extreme Right - Klebold and Harris, Robert Dear, and Ted Kaczynski. Thank you in advance for participating!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Springs_Planned_Parenthood_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

 

[James972]

Why is it that you want to try and pretend fascists are left wing?

well, perhaps because I have 100 quotes from famous leftists supporting fascism and none from right wingers. See why we have to be positive that liberalism is based in pure ignorance? Is any other conclusion possible??

 

[James972]

- Klebold and Harris, Robert Dear, and Ted Kaczynski.

these are crazy people who would be considered non political. A political movement is identified by the intellectuals who lead it. Do you understand?

 

[James972]

Many historians argue that Hitler was a Leftist as well,.

anybody who is seeing a significant difference between Hitler and Stalin is a scummy liberal flat out lying so there will be a villain on the right too. Pretending Hitler was for limited govt is something so low and dishonest that only a liberal would do it.

 

[Quag]

Many historians argue that Hitler was a Leftist as well, but even if you put him on the right There is no one on the American Right who loves Hitler. Before you start with Neo Nazis they are a microscopic few and although they claim the Right the American Right doesn't claim them.

No there are only a few who claim Hitler was a leftist, usually they are extreme right wingers who want to try and disassociate themselves from him. As to Neo Nazis guess what the democrats dont claim the communists party either.
Being on the right/left doesn't mean you agree with everyone else on your side of the spectrum.

Still there are many (possibly most) mainstream American Leftists who love Stalin, Mao and Castro. Stalin killed 7 time more than Hitler and Mao was slightly worse than Stalin. Per capita of the number of people under his power Castro murdered about the same as Hitler.

Yes it is sad there are still lots of people who like Stalin, Mao and Castro.
None of this has anything to do with the fact left/right is not the same as authoritarian/libertarian.

 

[Quag]

well, perhaps because I have 100 quotes from famous leftists supporting fascism and none from right wingers. See why we have to be positive that liberalism is based in pure ignorance? Is any other conclusion possible??

Umm Churchill was a famous leftist? Your alternate universe is getting weirder and weirder.
Once again in your crazy non educated world you think using some quotes from some people proves your point. That is like showing me quotes from Texans supporting the Patriots and not bothering to look for posts of Texans supporting the Cowboys to prove all Texans love the Patriots.

You remain willfully ignorant of the fact that left/right is not the same as authoritarian/libertarian.
Putting your head in the sand and refusing to learn will not suddenly make your errors true.

 

[Quag]

anybody who is seeing a significant difference between Hitler and Stalin is a scummy liberal flat out lying so there will be a villain on the right too. Pretending Hitler was for limited govt is something so low and dishonest that only a liberal would do it.

Left/right is not the same as libertarian/authoritarian
You need to try to actually educate yourself about these thins before trying to discuss them.

 

[Casca XV]

No there are only a few who claim Hitler was a leftist, usually they are extreme right wingers who want to try and disassociate themselves from him. As to Neo Nazis guess what the democrats dont claim the communists party either.
Being on the right/left doesn't mean you agree with everyone else on your side of the spectrum.


Yes it is sad there are still lots of people who like Stalin, Mao and Castro.
None of this has anything to do with the fact left/right is not the same as authoritarian/libertarian.

A lot more than a few Historians call Hitler a Leftist. When the economic and governing policies of the Nazi party are closely examined it's socialism 101. What you described is actually how Leftist College Professors "Disassociated" their Ideology form Nazis.

But none of this matters to this debate. Left or Right its impossible to have a Holocaust or similar situation without a large authoritarian government.

The part of my argument that you can not refute and are dodging is, that while a free market economy functions best with a limited power government, any economy based on Socialism must have government running and controlling everything just to exist.

Progressive Liberal Useful Idiots may not intend to create a Totalitarian Dictatorship, but that inevitable result of their policies.

 

[Quag]

A lot more than a few Historians call Hitler a Leftist. When the economic and governing policies of the Nazi party are closely examined it's socialism 101. What you described is actually how Leftist College Professors "Disassociated" their Ideology form Nazis.

While they nationalized some businesses they also privatized others. The problem is Hitler cared little about economics thus they had rather disjointed policies. They were however violently anti-communist.

Historians and other scholars disagree on the question of whether a specifically fascist type of economic policies can be said to exist. Baker argues that there is an identifiable economic system in fascism that is distinct from those advocated by other ideologies, comprising essential characteristics that fascist nations shared.[1] Payne, Paxton, Sternhell, et al. argue that while fascist economies share some similarities, there is no distinctive form of fascist economic organization.[2] Feldman and Mason argue that fascism is distinguished by an absence of coherent economic ideology and an absence of serious economic thinking. They state that the decisions taken by fascist leaders cannot be explained within a logical economic framework.[3]

But none of this matters to this debate. Left or Right its impossible to have a Holocaust or similar situation without a large authoritarian government.

I would tend to agree you need authoritarian govts to have large scale genocides (or total lack of govt) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Civil_War
But that isnt what this debate is about. The claim is leftists are more violent, left does not mean authoritarian.

The part of my argument that you can not refute and are dodging is, that while a free market economy functions best with a limited power government, any economy based on Socialism must have government running and controlling everything just to exist.

What country has a completely free market economy? Not the USA or any other functioning democracy. All democracies have some level of socialism built into them. Socialism is NOT communism, communism is an extreme form of left authoritarianism.

Progressive Liberal Useful Idiots may not intend to create a Totalitarian Dictatorship, but that inevitable result of their policies.

I would agree if you mean Communists but not necessarily for liberals. Just as the same statement would be true for Fascists but not necessarily true for conservatives.

 

[Casca XV]

While they nationalized some businesses they also privatized others. The problem is Hitler cared little about economics thus they had rather disjointed policies. They were however violently anti-communist.



I would tend to agree you need authoritarian govts to have large scale genocides (or total lack of govt) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Civil_War
But that isnt what this debate is about. The claim is leftists are more violent, left does not mean authoritarian.


What country has a completely free market economy? Not the USA or any other functioning democracy. All democracies have some level of socialism built into them. Socialism is NOT communism, communism is an extreme form of left authoritarianism.

I would agree if you mean Communists but not necessarily for liberals. Just as the same statement would be true for Fascists but not necessarily true for conservatives.

Happenings in Somalia are not applicable. That they are a 3rd world Mad Max society has more to do with the colture of the people than any political ideology. Any regime that takes control in that part of the world is almost always a totalitarian dictatorship which tends to prove my point.

Prior to the ascendancy of Leftists America was a Free Market Economy. Trump is reversing this. So far every economic action he has taken has reduced Government control over the economy (EPA, other regulations reduced).

Basic laws keeping everyone honest are necessary and dont keep an economy from being Free Market. Leftists like to make straw man agreements saying otherwise.

American politically motivated violence is a thousand times more common from the Left than from the right. Political violence from the Left is everyday and in your face (Berkley). Political violence from the Right is so rare its hardly worth counting. When incidents do happen half the time its not even clear it's political.

Totalitarian Communism is the inevitable result Progressive/Liberal/Socialism. Feel free to name a single policy from Obama, Bernie, Elizabeth Warren that doesn't result in granting Government more power. When people like them are in unchecked power they do nothing but increase Government control untill it is nothing more than an Authoritarian Dictatorship.

There just is no way to implement Leftists policy without an Authoritarian Government.

 

[Quag]

Happenings in Somalia are not applicable. That they are a 3rd world Mad Max society has more to do with the colture of the people than any political ideology. Any regime that takes control in that part of the world is almost always a totalitarian dictatorship which tends to prove my point.

I was agreeing with you that genocides usually require totalitarian regimes and used Somali as an example of the exception

Prior to the ascendancy of Leftists America was a Free Market Economy. Trump is reversing this. So far every economic action he has taken has reduced Government control over the economy (EPA, other regulations reduced).

The USA will continue to have socialistic programs regarldess of what Trump does. You cannot really comapre an pre-industrial economy to post industrial economy we live in now.

Basic laws keeping everyone honest are necessary and dont keep an economy from being Free Market. Leftists like to make straw man agreements saying otherwise.

SS/medicare/medicaid/unemployment insurance/maternity leave etc. etc... are not going anywhere.

American politically motivated violence is a thousand times more common from the Left than from the right. Political violence Political violence from the Left is everyday and in your face (Berkley). Political violence from the Right is so rare its hardly worth counting. When incidents do happen half the time its not even clear it's political.

I would agree that at the moment there is more violence from the left, but to go from there to claiming all violence comes from the left is dishonest.

Totalitarian Communism is the inevitable result Progressive/Liberal/Socialism.

That is about as true as claiming fascism is the inevetable result of conservatism.

Feel free to name a single policy from Obama, Bernie, Elizabeth Warren that doesn't result in granting Government more power. When people like them are in unchecked power they do nothing but increase Government control untill it is nothing more than an Authoritarian Dictatorship.

Reagan OKs Expansion of Medicare Aid : Adds Warning About Necessity to Keep Costs Under Control - latimes
Feel free to show me an administration that actually reduced the size of govt.

There just is no way to implement Leftists policy without an Authoritarian Government.

There is no way to implement anything without using authority, You want to have govt advance a conservative agenda you use govt authority.

 

[James972]

I would agree if you mean Communists but not necessarily for liberals.

wrong of course. Liberals are "Useful Idiots"( read the book) for communists. This is why our liberals spied for Stalin and always want bigger government without end.