Why is the average firearm owner, an unsafe gun owner?

[NolanVoyd]

So what's the difference then? I won't lie I don't see a meaningful difference between them.

Seriously.

You don't know the difference between home defense and water issues?

 

[jaeger19]

A person who buys a gun for self defense must take into account that they may be in a position where they have to kill someone. And in buying that gun they have taken the position that it is their right to kill.

No, every other person ignored that point and just attacked anyone who disagreed with him.
No, not just like in nz as their is no legal right to buy a gun for the purpose of self defense. Nor do we have any right to use lethal force.

I would find it even more unreasonable that a woman or grandfather can kill someone just because they feel threatened.

The many examples of stupidity with guns in america is my evidence.

1. The same thing happens when they buy a hammer or a knife or any other implement that can be used to kill. A martial artist also has to consider that they may in defense of their life half to kill soneone. Someone who is a martial artist doesn’t believe they “ have a right to kill.
Sorry but buying a firearm or training in martial arts or putting a baseball bat next to your door in no way means that person has taken the position that they have the right to kill.

Your position is absurd.

2. Not true at all. Stop lying. We all pointed out that defense of property is not generally a justification for lethal force and many presented you with the law that proved that.
They all disagreed with him.
We disagreed with you because despite every other gun owner saying no, only when it’s reasonable to protect oneself from imminent deadly harm is lethal force justified . JUST AS IN NEW ZEALAND.

3. Interesting. Let’s explore that.
So a knife wielding thug threatens to kill an old man. “ I am going to slice you up old man”.
And you don’t think grandpa can reasonably believe he is in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or death?
Please explain.

4.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Seriously.

You don't know the difference between home defense and water issues?

More likely it's because I know so much about security issues that I tend to look at security issues different ways then most people. Ever heard of the concept of slow death? Imagine living in an unsafe place where in which it causes you to get sick over time. If we define home defense as preparing the household against any threat to health, then slow deaths would count as well. Hence why I'm asking about access to clean drinking water.

 

[NolanVoyd]

More likely it's because I know so much about security issues that I tend to look at security issues different ways then most people.

neverthelss, water issues arent home defense issues.

if you are just going to say terms mean whatever you want them to mean, not what they actually mean, then we cant dis uss anything.

 

[poppopfox]

A definition made up the Gun Violence Archive, which is a rabid anti-civil rights gun control site that refuses to divulge their data collection methodology.

Their methodology was linked to on their home page, perhaps you didn't read that far down?

Yeah, **** that. I'll stick with the FBI. Less than 50 per a year.

50 is okay with you?

 

[JMB1911A1]

More likely it's because I know so much about security issues that I tend to look at security issues different ways then most people.

Wow, that is some serious arrogance. Based on your posts, you have no ****ing idea on most people’s security issues.

Ever heard of the concept of slow death? Imagine living in an unsafe place where in which it causes you to get sick over time. If we define home defense as preparing the household against any threat to health, then slow deaths would count as well. Hence why I'm asking about access to clean drinking water.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

neverthelss, water issues arent home defense issues.

if you are just going to say terms mean whatever you want them to mean, not what they actually mean, then we cant dis uss anything.

That's why I'm asking you to define them.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Their methodology was linked to on there home page, perhaps you didn't get that far?
View attachment 67561967

I know there methodology and reject it as a made up definition used to generate sensationalism in order to push an agenda that infringes on civil rights.

50 is okay with you?

The majority are gang bangers killing other gang bangers. Still too many but not 580+.

BTW, are you still carrying around that Chinese assault weapon modified with a 30 round magazine?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Wow, that is some serious arrogance. Based on your posts, you have no ****ing idea on most people’s security issues.

Do you know what slow death is?

 

[poppopfox]

Your last “statistic” in the OP is a lie based on a flawed study. But you know that because I have already replied to you and you ignored it. So, I’ll post the info again.

Your “statistic” is based on the debunked Kellerman study of 1993.

“First, in the 1993 referenced study, Kellermann et al. break rule number one when creating an ethical scientific study: engaging in selection bias. The ‘controlled’ population in this study came from a cherry-picked population of reported burglaries in a single county, thus creating a biased population and variables.

Kellermann’s team also used data where the guns were brought to the victim’s home and not owned by the victim. It seems that Kellermann et al. already had their ‘conclusion’ settled before the “study” even began.”

“Of course, a cherry-picked population encompassed by individuals with criminal records, aggressive behaviors, and homicidal tendencies are going to be more dangerous with a gun in hand than the average responsible, law-abiding gun owner. But in this false reality created by Kellermann et al., the two populations are one and the same.”

NY Times Recycles Debunked Study to Weaponize Anti-Gun Lies, Push More Disarmament Agitprop - The Truth About Guns

By Salam Fatohi Anti-gun activists are getting so desperate that they are relying on incorrect methodology to spread their own gun control agenda in their battle against the firearm industry. Put simply: junk science will always be junk science. Regardless of whether the ‘scientist’ believes it...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

An opinion piece from the thetruthaboutguns.com. You got nothing.
Try posting in good faith.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Do you know what slow death is?

Not relevant to this discussion. I guess since you can’t dazzle us with brilliance, you are going for baffle with bullshit.

 

[JMB1911A1]

An opinion piece from the thetruthaboutguns.com. You got nothing.
Try posting in good faith.

So, can’t attack the data so you try to attack the messenger. Your surrender on the data is accepted.

 

[poppopfox]

I know there methodology and reject it as a made up definition used to generate sensationalism in order to push an agenda that infringes on civil rights.

Sure.

The majority are gang bangers killing other gang bangers. Still too many but not 580+.

Resort to racism. Not unexpected.

BTW, are you still carrying around that Chinese assault weapon modified with a 30 round magazine?

 

[poppopfox]

So, can’t attack the data so you try to attack the messenger. Your surrender on the data is accepted.

There was no data, that's why it's called an opinion piece.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Sure.

Resort to racism. Not unexpected.

View attachment 67561968

Ah, the typical poppopfox retort. Pathetic as usual.

 

[JMB1911A1]

There was no data, that's why it's called an opinion piece.

Try reading the article. They lay bare Kellermann’s lies. But you support those lies because you want to infringe on our rights.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Not relevant to this discussion. I guess since you can’t dazzle us with brilliance, you are going for baffle with bullshit.

Not going to lie but this will be the second best take down I've had when I had to show off I know what I'm talking about.

Slow death refers to the idea that there are long term causes of death that cause a person to die over time. Classic example is cigarettes. Where I live now (that had a lot of industrialization), it's the soil. So much pollution exists in the soil the lead from the pollutants is causing kids to get lead poisoning. But as for the point I'm making here? Let's look at lead poisoning. Lead poisoning can cause behavioral disruptions. Behavioral disruptions causes poor school attendance, poor grades, fights at school etc. Which in turn causes the kids to drop out. Since they dropped out, they get picked up by gangs. And well, I'm sure you will imagine something far more terrifying than reality.

That's slow death. To ignore it is to die of it yourself. To understand it, is to live a very long life. Coming at me like I don't know security issues when you're planning your next move I'm over here playing the entire game in my head.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Try reading the article. They lay bare Kellermann’s lies. But you support those lies because you want to infringe on our rights.

Did you even try to prove that Kellermann was cited in my OP?

 

[JMB1911A1]

Did you even try to prove that Kellermann was cited in my OP?

I am not responding to you, am I?

 

[RF667799]

Except they don't. Having a firearm in the household increases the chance of dying. If you want to decrease the risk of death, don't have a firearm.

Having a fireplace in the household increases the chance of dying. Having a boat increases the chance of dying. Driving a car increases the chance of dying. Getting out of bed and walking in the sunshine increases the chance of dying.

Hate to break it to you, but ultimately the chance is 100%.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Not going to lie but this will be the second best take down I've had when I had to show off I know what I'm talking about.

Slow death refers to the idea that there are long term causes of death that cause a person to die over time. Classic example is cigarettes. Where I live now (that had a lot of industrialization), it's the soil. So much pollution exists in the soil the lead from the pollutants is causing kids to get lead poisoning. But as for the point I'm making here? Let's look at lead poisoning. Lead poisoning can cause behavioral disruptions. Behavioral disruptions causes poor school attendance, poor grades, fights at school etc. Which in turn causes the kids to drop out. Since they dropped out, they get picked up by gangs. And well, I'm sure you will imagine something far more terrifying than reality.

That's slow death. To ignore it is to die of it yourself. To understand it, is to live a very long life. Coming at me like I don't know security issues when you're planning your next move I'm over here playing the entire game in my head.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with home defense or firearms storage. Just you trying to act superior to everyone else.

 

[RF667799]

Would you live in a home that doesn't have safe drinking water in it?

Is this one of the whataboutisms you claimed were fallacies?

 

[RF667799]

More likely it's because I know so much about security issues that I tend to look at security issues different ways then most people. Ever heard of the concept of slow death? Imagine living in an unsafe place where in which it causes you to get sick over time. If we define home defense as preparing the household against any threat to health, then slow deaths would count as well. Hence why I'm asking about access to clean drinking water.

A gun can mitigate some threats to health. But I suppose one could always ask an intruder if they want a glass of clean water.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with home defense or firearms storage. Just you trying to act superior to everyone else.

Slow deaths include deaths by despair. Comorbidities include alcoholism, smoking, drug use. Add firearms to the mix and you get the number one tool of people who commit suicide in the US.

"In all age groups, 55% of men and 30% of women used firearms; 28% of men and 29% of women hanging/suffocation; 9% of men and 32% of women poisoning, and 8% of men and 9% of women “other” methods."

Three leading suicide methods in the United States, 2017–2019: Associations with decedents' demographic and clinical characteristics - PMC

The U.S. suicide data show that use of lethal methods, specifically firearms and hanging/suffocation, has been increasing among young and middle-aged adults of both sexes over the past decades. In this study, we examined demographic and clinical ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And how do they recommend the issue be resolved?

"The findings call for the following suicide prevention strategies: (1) restricted access to firearms; (2) improved access to mental health/substance use treatment; (3) improved long-term and palliative care services for those (mostly older adults) with physical health problems; (4) financial/housing support policies to mitigate economic hardship; and (5) more research to identify effective strategies to curtail the increasing use of firearm and hanging/suffocation among young and middle-aged adults."

 

[Scatty Kitty]

A gun can mitigate some threats to health. But I suppose one could always ask an intruder if they want a glass of clean water.

It's a good start. Personally speaking I would ask them their name if they're comfortable telling it to me. The next thing would be if they need help with stuff. Then water.