Why is the average firearm owner, an unsafe gun owner?

[stealthycat]

none of that defines what makes a "safe" gun owner

do this - calculate how many gun owners in the USA, how many guns owned, how many tens of billions of rounds of ammunition, and how man billions of hours of carrying guns does average firearm owners log every year ...

and tell me what % of the time there are accidents ?

 

[phoenix2020]

Numbers arent really your THANG eh Edwin? LOL.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

• Total Gun Deaths: In 2022, there were 48,204 firearm deaths in the U.S., an average of one death every 11 minutes.
  
  
• Firearm Suicide: 27,032 people died by firearm suicide in 2022.
  
  
• Firearm Homicide: 19,651 people died by firearm homicide in 2022, which was the second-highest number of gun homicide deaths ever recorded.
  
  
• Non-fatal firearm injuries: There are approximately 115,000 non-fatal firearm injuries in the U.S. each year.
• 115,000 gun injuries, plus thousands of deaths. Thats a lot of people shot!
• Now: THANK ME.

An interesting implication here is that if you take all the deaths and injuries per year, and multiply that by average life expectancy, you end up with an interesting metric: on average 4% all of people living in the US will either die to a firearm or suffer a non-fatal firearm injury at least once in their lifetime.

That’s rather stunning.

 

[JMB1911A1]

I see the OP as a white suburban liberal. Probably lives in a gated community with a security guard. Shops at Whole Foods. Has never had to worry about crime. Has never had to feed her family by hunting for food. The ultimate Karen.

She accuses me of unsafe gun handling because I keep my home defense guns in a safe. A ready access safe with RFID access. She thinks that is equivalent to a bedside drawer.

She also objects to me keeping my home defense guns in Condition 3 (magazine inserted, chamber empty). A home defense firearm is useless without ammo but she thinks I should keep my ammo in a separate room. All the home defense guns are in a safe.

I will admit to having one gun stored in Condition 1 (magazine inserted, round in the chamber, safety on). It is my carry gun and is stored in my big safe. Why do I keep it in Condition 1? Because, the risk of a negligent discharge is higher if I am loading it every morning and clearing it every evening.

Responsible gun owners make risk based decisions based on their own unique circumstance. For someone who has no idea of our circumstances to lecture us is the height of arrogance and white privilege.

But then, gun control comes from a place of privilege.

Gun Control Comes from a Place of Privilege

When underprivileged people worry about crime, it’s tempting to say “just call the cops.” But this isn’t actually helpful advice. It just demonstrates how little we know about their circumstances and how unqualified we are to speak to their issues.

fee.org

 

[RF667799]

An interesting implication here is that if you take all the deaths and injuries per year, and multiply that by average life expectancy, you end up with an interesting metric: on average 4% all of people living in the US will either die to a firearm or suffer a non-fatal firearm injury at least once in their lifetime.

That’s rather stunning.

Gambler Fallacy. A coin coming up heads ten times in a row, doesn't mean the odds have increased of flip 11 coming up tails.

Odds don't accumulate in that manner. If you assume they do, your work shows that the best chance of being shot is in the last years of life. Reality tells a different story.

Work your numerical magic for the 2.3 million traffic fatalities and injuries, and you might find everyone is virtually assured of being injured or dying in a traffic accident. If they have somehow made it to 70 years old or so without that unfortunate occurrence, it becomes inevitable.

Is this a phenomenon we can observe in reality?

 

[Rich2018]

There's no easy way to say this but the average gun owner in the US is not safe with their guns. Or at least, a large minority of American gun owners are not able safe with their firearms owners. Despite having millions of guns in the country, the average gun owner is not safe with them. What I mean by gun owners are not safe is three separate things;

1. They do not store their firearms safely. It's estimated more than half of gun owners do not properly store their firearms in a locked safe when not in use.

Survey: More Than Half of U.S. Gun Owners Do Not Safely Store Their Guns | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

More than half of gun owners do not safely store all their guns, according to a new survey of 1,444 U.S. gun owners conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

publichealth.jhu.edu

2. They do not store their ammo separately from their firearms when not in use. Almost half of gun owners do not keep their ammo separate from their firearms when not in use.

43% of U.S. Households Store Loaded Guns

About half of U.S. households that keep their firearms loaded do not store them in locked containers, a new CDC study found.

www.campussafetymagazine.com

3. They do not understand the actual risks of owning firearms. The simple fact of the matter is you're more likely to die if you have a firearm in the household than if you don't. Those who think that guns are used for personal defense against an intruder don't seem to realize they're more likely to die from an intimate partner killing them with a firearm.

Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Being Killed, New Study Shows

A new study shows that people living in homes with guns face substantially higher risks of being fatally assaulted.

time.com

While these are simple examples, the thing is that I don't think I've met a single person here on DP that knows and takes into all three of these points. That's the thing, I'm safely using firearms by not having any in my household. That being said I want to know why does the average gun owner think they're safe with firearms, when there's a good chance they are not actually safe with their firearms?

It actually wouldn't matter if they're "safe" or not

There were 586 mass shootings in the USA in 2024. That alone justifies gun control.

 

[JMB1911A1]

It actually wouldn't matter if they're "safe" or not

There were 586 mass shootings in the USA in 2024. That alone justifies gun control.

Another lie. There were less than 50 mass shootings in the United States in 2023 per the FBI.

A made up definition from a non-governmental website is complete and utter bullshit.

Oh, and the CDC determined that defensive gun uses number between 500,000 and 3 million per a year, far outweighing any use by criminals. That would be a determination by an actual government organization, not some guy running a website out of his basement.

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

Why did the CDC fail to publish 1990s research on numbers of defensive gun uses?

www.forbes.com

 

[rahl]

There's no easy way to say this but the average gun owner in the US is not safe with their guns. Or at least, a large minority of American gun owners are not able safe with their firearms owners. Despite having millions of guns in the country, the average gun owner is not safe with them. What I mean by gun owners are not safe is three separate things;

1. They do not store their firearms safely. It's estimated more than half of gun owners do not properly store their firearms in a locked safe when not in use.

Survey: More Than Half of U.S. Gun Owners Do Not Safely Store Their Guns | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

More than half of gun owners do not safely store all their guns, according to a new survey of 1,444 U.S. gun owners conducted by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

publichealth.jhu.edu

2. They do not store their ammo separately from their firearms when not in use. Almost half of gun owners do not keep their ammo separate from their firearms when not in use.

43% of U.S. Households Store Loaded Guns

About half of U.S. households that keep their firearms loaded do not store them in locked containers, a new CDC study found.

www.campussafetymagazine.com

3. They do not understand the actual risks of owning firearms. The simple fact of the matter is you're more likely to die if you have a firearm in the household than if you don't. Those who think that guns are used for personal defense against an intruder don't seem to realize they're more likely to die from an intimate partner killing them with a firearm.

Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Being Killed, New Study Shows

A new study shows that people living in homes with guns face substantially higher risks of being fatally assaulted.

time.com

While these are simple examples, the thing is that I don't think I've met a single person here on DP that knows and takes into all three of these points. That's the thing, I'm safely using firearms by not having any in my household. That being said I want to know why does the average gun owner think they're safe with firearms, when there's a good chance they are not actually safe with their firearms?

US gun owners are extremely safe. It’s why so few firearms are used in accidental shootings.

 

[rahl]

The NRA used to focus on gun safety before they became wackos. I taught gun safety under the NRA Program in the 1970s---believe me, they ain't the same (anymore than the GOP ain't the same today, etc...)..........................all gun owners should have to buy special insurance to cover the law suits that SHOULD be allowed when gun owners are irresponsible.....

It’s so funny that you still think you fool anyone when you lie about being an NRA instructor

 

[rahl]

Don't worry as an American we are used to it. We got a lot of practice in school.

We don’t actually. School shootings are exceptionally rare.

 

[JMB1911A1]

The NRA used to focus on gun safety before they became wackos. I taught gun safety under the NRA Program in the 1970s---believe me, they ain't the same (anymore than the GOP ain't the same today, etc...).........................

The NRA is the gold standard for firearms safety instruction. Always have been. But yiu would know that if you had ever actually been an instructor.

Name one “gun safety” organization that teaches firearms safety. They don’t.

.all gun owners should have to buy special insurance to cover the law suits that SHOULD be allowed when gun owners are irresponsible.....

And btw, you can’t require insurance to exercise a right.

 

[rahl]

I noted the statistical results of gun owners and their practices when it comes to basic gun safety. Seeing as how it's a 50/50 odds, maybe 60/40 if we're lucky, you are probably not being safe with your firearms. You own guns right? Are all of your guns locked up?



Correct. It's safer that way.

Guns don’t need to be locked up to be safe. Gun accidents are extremely rare.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Guns don’t need to be locked up to be safe. Gun accidents are extremely rare.

Mine are locked up because they are expensive. Along with jewelry and important documents.

 

[rahl]

An interesting implication here is that if you take all the deaths and injuries per year, and multiply that by average life expectancy, you end up with an interesting metric: on average 4% all of people living in the US will either die to a firearm or suffer a non-fatal firearm injury at least once in their lifetime.

That’s rather stunning.

Hilariously false. You are far more likely to suffer a fatal or non fatal injury from a motor vehicle accident, by orders of magnitude more, than by firearm.

 

[rahl]

It actually wouldn't matter if they're "safe" or not

There were 586 mass shootings in the USA in 2024. That alone justifies gun control.

There hasn’t been 586 mass shootings this century, so when you repeat this proven lie of a single year having that many, you are showing your complete detachment from reality.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Oh, and I forgot to post about her third bullet that guns in the home cause a higher risk.

That is based on the debunked Kellerman study of 1993.

“First, in the 1993 referenced study, Kellermann et al. break rule number one when creating an ethical scientific study: engaging in selection bias. The ‘controlled’ population in this study came from a cherry-picked population of reported burglaries in a single county, thus creating a biased population and variables.

Kellermann’s team also used data where the guns were brought to the victim’s home and not owned by the victim. It seems that Kellermann et al. already had their ‘conclusion’ settled before the “study” even began.”

“Of course, a cherry-picked population encompassed by individuals with criminal records, aggressive behaviors, and homicidal tendencies are going to be more dangerous with a gun in hand than the average responsible, law-abiding gun owner. But in this false reality created by Kellermann et al., the two populations are one and the same.”

NY Times Recycles Debunked Study to Weaponize Anti-Gun Lies, Push More Disarmament Agitprop - The Truth About Guns

By Salam Fatohi Anti-gun activists are getting so desperate that they are relying on incorrect methodology to spread their own gun control agenda in their battle against the firearm industry. Put simply: junk science will always be junk science. Regardless of whether the ‘scientist’ believes it...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[rahl]

Mine are locked up because they are expensive. Along with jewelry and important documents.

I agree. I have 99% of mine locked up except for my EDC firearms which remain in my EDC bag I take with me to and from work.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

While these are simple examples, the thing is that I don't think I've met a single person here on DP that knows and takes into all three of these points.

Raises hand.... those three points all fall under "training" that I have constantly talked about here. (And been taken to task over repeatedly by certain US based gun fans)

When it comes to guns and gun control - there are three opinions.

• Anti-gun (obvious what that is)
• American Pro -Gun - (will take issue with almost anything said by someone who is not an American gun-fan - whether that person is pro-gun or not)
• Rest of World Pro-Gun - especially those who live in countries where you have to demonstrate safe practice and take yearly tests / training.

I usually find on these threads if I don't subscribe to guns, guns and more guns with guns on top and the less training and safety concern taken over gun ownership: then I'm a "commie ant-gun leftist."

 

[braindrain]

The NRA used to focus on gun safety before they became wackos. I taught gun safety under the NRA Program in the 1970s---believe me, they ain't the same (anymore than the GOP ain't the same today, etc...)..........................all gun owners should have to buy special insurance to cover the law suits that SHOULD be allowed when gun owners are irresponsible.....

Back to this old tired lie huh.

Tell me were most of the other NRA instructors from your time also incredibly ignorant on firearms like you.

 

[braindrain]

That's fair, but it doesn't seem to make sense to me still. Like for example I had a kid once tell me that his parents let him have a firearm when he gets upset to help calm him down. They let him take his hunting rifle to his perch and just sit there with it. They're not uneducated either. One is a well experienced hunter and the other I know has a college education. It doesn't make sense to me why they would let him do it.



I get the feeling this will be a reoccurring question in this thread. But do you do the basic safety things I mentioned in the OP?



I don't believe there are millions. I've seen statistics go as high as a tens of thousand, but not millions.

Yeah sorry but made up stories don’t make for a very convincing argument.

 

[braindrain]

Don't worry as an American we are used to it. We got a lot of practice in school.

More lies.

 

[braindrain]

Because the average american gun owner only acknowledges the safety rules of handling a gun. The safety rules of storing a gun are not a high priority because they do not allow for the american right to lethal self defense. Where as many of these pro gun will acknowledge that they do safely store their guns they will also acknowledge that it is their right to leave at least one gun always loaded and always within reach despite the fact that it is an unsafe practice. They will simply gambleon the odds rather than practice safety. But then such is the propaganda of fear that the pro gun crowd advertise that they easily fall into the belief that america is such a violent place they need to have a gun ready to kill at all times.

You can put it down to intense propaganda to create a fear of not having a gun. As well as a lack of safety laws but instead simply some rules that they can choose to ignore.

More made up bs.

But we all know the control zealots have no issue with lying if they think it will further their agenda.

 

[Helix]

We inherited a fairly nice gun safe. It's locked.

 

[braindrain]

Raises hand.... those three points all fall under "training" that I have constantly talked about here. (And been taken to task over repeatedly by certain US based gun fans)

When it comes to guns and gun control - there are three opinions.

• Anti-gun (obvious what that is)
• American Pro -Gun - (will take issue with almost anything said by someone who is not an American gun-fan - whether that person is pro-gun or not)
• Rest of World Pro-Gun - especially those who live in countries where you have to demonstrate safe practice and take yearly tests / training.

I usually find on these threads if I don't subscribe to guns, guns and more guns with guns on top and the less training and safety concern taken over gun ownership: then I'm a "commie ant-gun leftist."

Made up stories while entertaining are rarely good arguments.

 

[RF667799]

The NRA is the gold standard for firearms safety instruction. Always have been. But yiu would know that if you had ever actually been an instructor.

Name one “gun safety” organization that teaches firearms safety. They don’t.



And btw, you can’t require insurance to exercise a right.

Not to mention that lawsuits against irresponsible gun owners ARE allowed. Criminal charges can result from extreme negligence, too.

I would think an NRA safety instructor would have access to such common information.

 

[Peter]

This but unironically.

Please point out where in the bible it mentions guns?
The right to bear arms is not "God given".