alphieb
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2005
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- Vincennes IN
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- Political Leaning
- Liberal
alphieb said:
Why is private school performance better than public school performance? The teachers usually get paid less due to lack of government funding. However, istep and SAT show a dramatic differences in favor of the private school.
aquapub said:Before any of our liberal Michael Moore sheep start claiming it is that private schools get more funding (hence we should raise taxes :roll: ) keep in mind that Washington D.C. schools are the most over-funded schools in the country and they rank near the very bottom in performance. It ISN'T about money, no matter what the phony populist rhetoric of the left says.
There is one big, fat answer to the main question: Public schools are controlled by labor unions.
Teacher unions like the AFT and the NEA have ruined the public school system by forcing the system to prioritize catering to teachers and getting them extra cushy benefits (like having ALL of their school debt paid off at taxpayer expense) over the quality of the students' education.
Teachers' unions have used their mafia strong-arming tactics to abuse the system into a total state of dysfunction. One great example was when they got a teacher who had molested students FULL salary compensation while in prison AND they wouldn't let the school fill the vacant position while he was gone. There have been similar cases with drug-dealing teachers.
And since unions place seniority over anything and everything, a totally unqualified gym teacher with seniority can be forced into a job teaching math over qualified candidates.
The violations are so grotesque that you might think you are reading them from some conspiracy theory-toting liberal, but the list of abuses is very real and it is enormous.
aquapub said:Before any of our liberal Michael Moore sheep start claiming it is that private schools get more funding (hence we should raise taxes :roll: ) keep in mind that Washington D.C. schools are the most over-funded schools in the country and they rank near the very bottom in performance. It ISN'T about money, no matter what the phony populist rhetoric of the left says.
There is one big, fat answer to the main question: Public schools are controlled by labor unions.
Teacher unions like the AFT and the NEA have ruined the public school system by forcing the system to prioritize catering to teachers and getting them extra cushy benefits (like having ALL of their school debt paid off at taxpayer expense) over the quality of the students' education.
Teachers' unions have used their mafia strong-arming tactics to abuse the system into a total state of dysfunction. One great example was when they got a teacher who had molested students FULL salary compensation while in prison AND they wouldn't let the school fill the vacant position while he was gone. There have been similar cases with drug-dealing teachers.
And since unions place seniority over anything and everything, a totally unqualified gym teacher with seniority can be forced into a job teaching math over qualified candidates.
The violations are so grotesque that you might think you are reading them from some conspiracy theory-toting liberal, but the list of abuses is very real and it is enormous.
Our findings suggest that it is time for a critical reexamination of common assumptions regarding the effectiveness of public and private schools. As market-style reforms change the public school landscape, prompting many to call for various forms of privatization of schooling options, it is important to examine the evidence regarding whether private schools are, indeed, more effective than public schools. In our study, once we accounted for the fact that private schools tend to have higher-SES students than public schools, we actually found just the opposite of what was expected: public schools outperformed private schools within each SES quartile.
bandaidwoman said:here is another link commenting on the analysis of that study showing public schools do better than private for those, like me, who like looking at studies and analyse them everyday.
http://www.kimberlyswygert.com/archives/002835.html
alphieb said:That particular County may be unique. Here is a link based on my state (Indiana).
http://mustang.doe.state.in.us
I could provide more statics.
Technocratic_Utilitarian said:As someone said, one major problem are the teacher's unions. Unions can be a good idea, but not to the extent these have gotten. Those need to be fixed, most definitly. You can hardly fire incompetent teachers. However, that is not the only problem, and some of the problems are quite intrinsic to the concept of a mass-education.
Private schools do not have to accept everyone; public schools do. Public schools are not allowed to cherrypick students that are easier to deal with, smarter, come from better homes and areas. Many, but not all, private schools do this. Public schools must also adhere to rights of teachers and students, while, to a lesser extent, private schools do. Mass education comes with problems of a mass education--you have to deal with all kinds and you cannot simply say: no, you can't come here. Private schools typically are smaller and service fewer individuals, and they like it this way, since it is one factor that helps to keep their stats up compared to public schools. As an example, when taking standardized tests, many of the "retarded," slow, or problem children have to take the same assessments as the good or average kids, therefore, the test results go down.
Another problem is that problems in results are not always the fault of the teachers or the schools, but the problems of the students and the parents. I ahve said time and time again that many kids simply do not study. Half of the kids in my biology class in COLLEGE--people 19-20 years old, fail consistantly, the basic 103 level multiple choice questions. This is not the fault of the institution. They are just stupid, careless, or ignorant to the subject's importance in life. The parents are also to blame. Many do not have time for their children's needs in school, and in highschool, parent identification with and help for the child declines compared to grammar school. This is a problem.
Then you also have the case where parents are incapable of doing the type of work modern students have, since they didn't have it. It is even changing in my life. My school never taught what it's teaching now in 7th grade. I didn't even have physics or trig.
The best teachers cannot help massive of kids who don't care, don't want to learn, and get no help at home. This can easily be avoided or minimized at private instititutions, since the people who send their kids to these schools oft pay big bucks and care more, and they damn sure make their kids work because of the $$$. Not everyone can compete with this mentality.
Underspending is a problem in some areas, and this combines with administrative and municipal overburden. However, this is not the only cause of inferior scores and results; misapplication and misappropriation of funds is a problem. Another problem is that people have far too much say in what goes on in schools. MOre power ought to go to educational technorats in the field and the classroom instead of allowing parent/community or far-flung officials to say what ought be done and then ride off into the sunset patting themselves on the back. IF you want to see an example of this problem, look at Kansas and Dover PA.
aquapub said:Before any of our liberal Michael Moore sheep start claiming it is that private schools get more funding (hence we should raise taxes :roll: ) keep in mind that Washington D.C. schools are the most over-funded schools in the country and they rank near the very bottom in performance. It ISN'T about money, no matter what the phony populist rhetoric of the left says.
There is one big, fat answer to the main question: Public schools are controlled by labor unions.
Teacher unions like the AFT and the NEA have ruined the public school system by forcing the system to prioritize catering to teachers and getting them extra cushy benefits (like having ALL of their school debt paid off at taxpayer expense) over the quality of the students' education.
Teachers' unions have used their mafia strong-arming tactics to abuse the system into a total state of dysfunction. One great example was when they got a teacher who had molested students FULL salary compensation while in prison AND they wouldn't let the school fill the vacant position while he was gone. There have been similar cases with drug-dealing teachers.
And since unions place seniority over anything and everything, a totally unqualified gym teacher with seniority can be forced into a job teaching math over qualified candidates.
The violations are so grotesque that you might think you are reading them from some conspiracy theory-toting liberal, but the list of abuses is very real and it is enormous.
alphieb said:
Why is private school performance better than public school performance? The teachers usually get paid less due to lack of government funding. However, istep and SAT show a dramatic differences in favor of the private school.
alphieb said:Beautiful,
I love your post!!!!!! My son goes to a private Catholic School. The average salary is 24,000 annual. Their SAT scores are WAY higher than the public school. Their standards are much higher.
A School (public) that was built in the seventies in my home town is being torn down so that they can build a BRAND NEW ONE at my tax expense.
Mikkel said:Blaming it on the teacher's union is the easy and moronic solution to the problem. There's a larger picture here you aren't getting. Lack of funding is hurting our schools as much, if not more, than a corrupt union.
bandaidwoman said:I agree.
I hope to sequay her into the public schools later in junior high (since rockdale county has great public and magnet schools compared to rest of georgia) since I am skeptical about this private school's upper science curriculum. I will continue speaking chinese to her but hope she keeps up her spanish later.
Employee_of_the_Month said:I think private school produces better results because the environment is more liberal then public schools which are kind of like mind factories.
There are often less students in a room and plus those teachers are PAID while public school teachers are often PLAYED cause they have to reach all of these kids who dont fit in the room and make sure they pass standardized tests before tehy can really get the attention they need as individuals.
aquapub said:Teacher unions like the AFT and the NEA have ruined the public school system by forcing the system to prioritize catering to teachers and getting them extra cushy benefits (like having ALL of their school debt paid off at taxpayer expense) over the quality of the students' education.
aquapub said:One great example was when they got a teacher who had molested students FULL salary compensation while in prison AND they wouldn't let the school fill the vacant position while he was gone. There have been similar cases with drug-dealing teachers.
aquapub said:And since unions place seniority over anything and everything, a totally unqualified gym teacher with seniority can be forced into a job teaching math over qualified candidates.
bandaidwoman said:I agree.
I also agree with Hipsterdufus that private schools have already screened out the more capable people. In medicine, we call this selective population bias ( studies select a group of people ( race, sex etc.) that are felt to show favorable statistics for a drug... the classic is the new heart failure medicine BIDIL for blacks only, the drug's components in past studies showed no favorable effects when studies combined blacks and whites.)
By the way, I do have my daughter enrolled in private school at the prek level since they teach spanish, japanese and chinese. Something the private schools do not offer at such a young age, and as Hipsterdufus said, she was tested extensively and interviewed before she was accepted. (they obviously wanted someone of high caliber without learning disabilities etc.)
I hope to sequay her into the public schools later in junior high (since rockdale county has great public and magnet schools compared to rest of georgia) since I am skeptical about this private school's upper science curriculum. I will continue speaking chinese to her but hope she keeps up her spanish later.
FinnMacCool said:It has to be because schools are so exclusive. I went to Kellenberg Memorial, a Catholic school, and I did horrible there. I'm now going to public school and I'm doing a lot better. Kellenberg would kick you out if you failed two subjects so that probably helps a bit.
alphieb said:I would like to have any other persons opinion also that has been to private school, this is important to me, because it is my sons education. Take into consideration, he may be dyslexic. Which would be best for him?
Thanks
alphieb said:I would like to have any other persons opinion also that has been to private school, this is important to me, because it is my sons education. Take into consideration, he may be dyslexic. Which would be best for him?
Thanks
Mikkel said:I went to a secular private school in cleveland and I can tell you right off the bat that I recieved a MUCH better education there than I ever would have in the Cleveland Hts public school system. If you want to know which is better, truly, it depends on your school district. In my case, there were overcrowded classrooms and not too many great test scores.
The bottom line is, if you're willing to pay the cash, your kid will recieve at least a decent, if not good, education at a private school (it also varies from one school to another, but the worst private schools are still miles ahead of the worst public schools). Know your public school district as well, becuase it could be very well just as good, if not better, than the private school you're looking at.
If you're worried that your child won't get the attention he needs for something like dyslexia, I'd lean more towards the private school myself.
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