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tecoyah said:This question is primarily for the Christian Sects, as they seem to be the most Adamant about this heaven and hell, lost soul belief. What is it that makes one version of God more acceptable than another...to the point that one is judged unworthy of a cush afterlife?
I am seriously confused by this, as even when I was Christian, I never saw the point of it.
And as Kal-El said, and as evidenced by the lack of response, no one wil give a straight-forward answer. If it hadn't been noticed before, I've been point/counterpointing someone who truly feels they 'know' God and Jesus, has said this more than once. Why does one person 'know' and make the assumption no one else does? They don't ask if anyone else does-just assumes they don't.tecoyah said:This question is primarily for the Christian Sects, as they seem to be the most Adamant about this heaven and hell, lost soul belief. What is it that makes one version of God more acceptable than another...to the point that one is judged unworthy of a cush afterlife?
I am seriously confused by this, as even when I was Christian, I never saw the point of it.
Richard Dawkins said:“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”
Matthew 5:44
But I tell you: Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.
That is very ignorant of you.kal-el said:This is kinda off topic, but a Christian must love Satan, for Jesus says:
Matthew 5:44
But I tell you: Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you.
You wouldn't want to argue with Jesus, would you?:lol:
I really wouldnt be the one calling out other people on that.kal-el said:And you will never get a straight-forward answer from Christians. Alls they will do is use all these verbal gymnastics, and dance around the subject without even answering it.
teenonfire4him77 said:That is very ignorant of you.
Love overcomes hate...even atheist can't argue with that.
Lets take this from a secular point of view.
If your kids comes to you upset because someone is picking on them, you would tell them to be overly nice to them back.
Now this can have 2 outcomes:
A- the bully leaves you alone because obviously what he is doing is not affecting you
B- the bully can realize and question why he is being so mean when the other person is so nice, and change his ways.
This is exactly the same concept. We are called to love EVERYONE, not just people who agree with you.
Now if the whole world was like this, do you think taht it would have as many problems...or any?
Or are you just so set on proving the bible wrong that you forget the morals and principals in them that reflect so called 'universal principles' that you see today?...they had to have come from somewhere.
Kids have to be raised to do what is right, they don't know its wrong untill someone tells them it is.
I really wouldnt be the one calling out other people on that.
Hypocritical much?
FluffyNinja said:It's all a gamble! My gamble is that there is a God and an afterlife and that I'm following the correct one! You atheists are gambling that there is no God or afterlife and that upon dying, we simply "wink-out."
Bottom line is I'll never be able to prove that a supreme being exists or that I've chosen the right one, and you'll never be able to prove otherwise. If; however, my gamble pays off and yours does not, God have mercy on you. This is like Russian roulette, you're gambling that it's not loaded and I'm not even picking up the gun!:lol:
Sure you are...you're betting something wonderful is going to happen to you when the only proof of what happens is decay. You're holding the same gun. And the only reason you're betting on that is you don't want to face the finality of death and the fact that you are only a carbon-based life form just like that raccoon on the roadside. So you believe in a place where you will go and never be fully dead, knowing that logically, there's simply no indication of that happening.FluffyNinja said:It's all a gamble! My gamble is that there is a God and an afterlife and that I'm following the correct one! You atheists are gambling that there is no God or afterlife and that upon dying, we simply "wink-out."
Bottom line is I'll never be able to prove that a supreme being exists or that I've chosen the right one, and you'll never be able to prove otherwise. If; however, my gamble pays off and yours does not, God have mercy on you. This is like Russian roulette, you're gambling that it's not loaded and I'm not even picking up the gun!:lol:
kal-el said:What if it turns out that there is a god, but not the Christian god. So, he would hate all Christians for worshipping the wrong god. Atheists don't worship any god, so we pretty much have a clean slate.
ngdawg said:Sure you are...you're betting something wonderful is going to happen to you when the only proof of what happens is decay. You're holding the same gun. And the only reason you're betting on that is you don't want to face the finality of death and the fact that you are only a carbon-based life form just like that raccoon on the roadside. So you believe in a place where you will go and never be fully dead, knowing that logically, there's simply no indication of that happening.
Afterlife is just denial of logic. Living to think you're good enough to make it into an unknown paradise is futile. Why not live and treat others the way you wish to be treated and be known in the here and now as a person of honor instead of betting on a longshot?
FluffyNinja said:It's all a gamble! My gamble is that there is a God and an afterlife and that I'm following the correct one! You atheists are gambling that there is no God or afterlife and that upon dying, we simply "wink-out."
Bottom line is I'll never be able to prove that a supreme being exists or that I've chosen the right one, and you'll never be able to prove otherwise. If; however, my gamble pays off and yours does not, God have mercy on you. This is like Russian roulette, you're gambling that it's not loaded and I'm not even picking up the gun!:lol:
Engimo said:This is just a terrible variant of Pascal's Wager.
FluffyNinja said:Ol' Blaise Pascal expressed it a bit more mathematically than did I. You know, most authors who have "tested" the validity of Pascal's Wager concluded that when taking only the two variables into consideration (1. Wagering For God and 2. Wagering against God) his assertion is valid - that one MUST wager FOR the existence of God - it's the only "winning" outcome. Some authors, after introducing other outside variables and applying them to the matrix, later concluded that his assertion may be invalid. However; they were forced to ADD other circumstances to his variables.
Also, Pascal's Wager is damned cynical, saying that you're better off "taking your chances" with religion because you might get something out of it. Is that a good reason to believe in something?
FluffyNinja said:The statement above has NOTHING to do with Pascal's statistical outcomes.
A number of authors who have been otherwise critical of the Wager have explicitly conceded that the Wager is valid — e.g. Mackie 1982, Rescher 1985, Mougin and Sober 1994, and most emphatically, Hacking 1972. That is, these authors agree with Pascal that wagering for God really is rationally mandated by Pascal's decision matrix in tandem with positive probability for God's existence, and the decision theoretic account of rational action.
I think we ALL have a cynical side.
teenonfire4him77 said:That is very ignorant of you.
Love overcomes hate...even atheist can't argue with that.
Lets take this from a secular point of view.
If your kids comes to you upset because someone is picking on them, you would tell them to be overly nice to them back.
Now this can have 2 outcomes:
A- the bully leaves you alone because obviously what he is doing is not affecting you
B- the bully can realize and question why he is being so mean when the other person is so nice, and change his ways.
Engimo said:The matrix is nonsense. It's 4x4, when it should really be infinityxinfinity. There are an infinite number of potential Gods that could exist, all equally as likely to exist as the Christian God. Your odds of getting the right one by picking the Christian God are exactly the same as your odds of getting the right one by being an atheist. After all, provided that all Gods are created equal, there are an infinite number of potential Gods that would reward atheism and punish Christianity.
1:infinity vs 1:infinity is not a very compelling argument.
FluffyNinja said:Ol' Blaise Pascal expressed it a bit more mathematically than did I. You know, most authors who have "tested" the validity of Pascal's Wager concluded that when taking only the two variables into consideration (1. Wagering For God and 2. Wagering against God) his assertion is valid - that one MUST wager FOR the existence of God - it's the only "winning" outcome. Some authors, after introducing other outside variables and applying them to the matrix, later concluded that his assertion may be invalid. However; they were forced to ADD other circumstances to his variables.
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