I'd argue that if a person or group of people face certain death in the home countries---not just looking for better working conditions, but as in "they and their families will die if they stay" then a country has a moral obligation to take them in, so long as it's through legal channels.
Part of the reason Hitler eventually turned to the idea of killing all the Jews, instead of just stealing their stuff and kicking them out, was because nobody wanted to take that many immigrants, especially of a different faith.
Can you provide any evidence for that?
If they only exist in my imagination then why is there always a large amount of outrage at any attempts to reduce immigration?
At what point does this come into effect? Do we allow it for people who just live in poor conditions? How many do we allow and what do we do if there is no practical way to vet them? At what point do we draw the line?
But there is a practical way to vet them. Until we invent a way to read people's minds, there's no 100% surety; but we have very strict vetting processes.
An example would be the Yazidis in Iraq. But you don't have to take in every single member of a group either.
So you missed the part where I mentioned ILLEGAL immigration. I am for the rule of law, I also know that we are a land made up of immigrants. Without immigrants, we would not be here.
Why take any Yazidis? If any, why not all?
Because groups like ISIS and other Islamic radical terrorist organizations are trying to wipe them out, because they think the Yazidis are devil worshippers. Which their not, but the radicals don't care.
Taking in Yazidis would also bypass the concerns that immigrants might be working with terrorists like some people claim.
Immigration isn't a right. It's a political reality, and immigrants -- legal or illegal -- are entitled to certain rights when they cross the border. E.g. anyone suspected of illegally crossing a border still has the right to due process.I've been puzzling over this concept. There seems to be a significant number of people who believe that immigration is a right of some sorts. Why?
In case you missed it, everyone who isn't Native American is an immigrant. We are a nation of immigrants. We have made a choice to make our borders relatively (but not absolutely) open.Why does a country even have to let a single immigrant in? As far as the U.S., we already have a ton of diversity so it's not like we are struggling on that end.
Incorrect.We keep hearing about people complaining about stagnant wages but we grow our population via immigration when we could reduce it. If you want an easy way to increase wages, shrink the labor pool so employers have to fight over hiring people vice 50 people applying for the same job and the one who makes it is thankful to be getting a paycheck at all.
The "horror" isn't in restricting immigration. It is:Why is a country considered horrible if they just don't do immigration?
In case you missed it, everyone who isn't Native American is an immigrant.
..it's not horrifying to suggest that we should limit the US to 1 million or 2 million legal immigrants per year. It is horrifying to vilify all Muslims, and insist that "no Muslims should be allowed to enter the US under any circumstances."
But there is a practical way to vet them. Until we invent a way to read people's minds, there's no 100% surety; but we have very strict vetting processes.
An example would be the Yazidis in Iraq. But you don't have to take in every single member of a group either.
What are these "strict vetting processes"? It's my understanding that the FBI has made clear that there is no way to know whether an alien being admitted here from Syria is a jihadist. That conclusion is supported by the fact Tashfeen Malik, the Pakistani who was an accomplice in the murders in San Bernardino last December, managed to be admitted to the U.S. despite good evidence she supported jihadist violence.
Of course none of this bothers the run-of-the-mill leftist know-nothing, who, like his disgraceful president, resents the U.S. and does not wish it well. A shared antipathy toward this country makes these specimens willing apologists for the Islamic jihadists. Andy McCarthy documented this unholy alliance in "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America."
This is not how it's supposed to work. Once they are out of danger, any country is as good.
Why us? Because this is where the naive do-gooders are at the ready to put them on welfare.
Or do you already have well-paying jobs waiting for them?
I'll skip sharing the brilliant, deep thoughts when it comes to the theories or the legalese of immigration (joke) -- My thoughts here only stem from my belief that I am a worldly person and also take immense joy in traveling the world, interacting with people of different backgrounds, and getting to have fascinating multicultural experiences. There's nothing like getting lost in Paris; or eating at a Hawker market in Singapore until you can't move. Or clubbing in Mexico City with people who speak a different language, or beaching on the Gold Coast in Australia. I live for that type of stuff. Which is what an open and travel-able world has allowed me to do.
I'd like to have that type of world continue. Even more so too. I want to have a world that does not segregate itself based on artificial identities and does not place sovereignty over an individual's ability to travel, work or live where she pleases. I enjoy being empowered to chose my own happiness, and I don't want to be restricted to a the square plot of soil that I happened to be born upon.
So obvious that leads me to being very super pro-immigration.
That would be a very bad decision. The world is much more interconnected than I think most people realize. Severing ourselves (Americans) from the course of the world kills that inter-connectivity and deprives us of all of the wealth and human capital that 6.8 billion people have to offer that is not found in just 4% of the population.
We shut our doors and we end up backwards and surpassed by the rest of the world.
Immigration isn't a right. It's a political reality, and immigrants -- legal or illegal -- are entitled to certain rights when they cross the border. E.g. anyone suspected of illegally crossing a border still has the right to due process.
Refugees have the right to escape conflicts, and nations often honor that with an asylum system.
In case you missed it, everyone who isn't Native American is an immigrant.
We have made a choice to make our borders relatively (but not absolutely) open.
Plus: If the immigrants weren't coming to the US to work for those low wages, then those jobs would relocate to where labor is cheap.
Meanwhile, the influx of workers also means more consumers. You have more people who are buying goods, renting apartments, buying and driving cars, eating food, paying taxes and so forth. Even with remittances, overall immigration is beneficial for the economy. This is especially useful when those immigrants are younger, which means they pay into Social Security at a time when we need more people paying in.
The "horror" isn't in restricting immigration. It is:
• Treating immigrants like they are subhuman
• Depriving immigrants of other rights, such as due process
• Racist and/or xenophobic objections by some to immigration
E.g. it's not horrifying to suggest that we should limit the US to 1 million or 2 million legal immigrants per year. It is horrifying to vilify all Muslims, and insist that "no Muslims should be allowed to enter the US under any circumstances."
I've been puzzling over this concept. There seems to be a significant number of people who believe that immigration is a right of some sorts. Why? Why does a country even have to let a single immigrant in? As far as the U.S., we already have a ton of diversity so it's not like we are struggling on that end.
We keep hearing about people complaining about stagnant wages but we grow our population via immigration when we could reduce it. If you want an easy way to increase wages, shrink the labor pool so employers have to fight over hiring people vice 50 people applying for the same job and the one who makes it is thankful to be getting a paycheck at all.
Obviously, there are times when immigration is advantageous but there is never a time when it would be good to have totally open immigration but that's besides the point.
Why is a country considered horrible if they just don't do immigration? Any POVs from the super pro immigration people out there that have defined thoughts on this?
What our government won't tell us because they consider us too stupid to understand is that we depend on growth, and growth requires consumers, preferably those buying houses, cars, getting married, having kids. We need their high spending rate to afford the retirements and the government.
This why the borders are open. Young, hard working Mexicans popping out children while dad works nights,days, weekends, trying to keep up with the family spending curve. To what end? To raise more taxpayers who get married, have children, and consume as if there is no tomorrow.
We (our leaders) are hooked on a demographic drug.
Yes. Not a "right" exactly, but a part of what "significant number of people" see as the meaning of America. There is this notion that individual people should not be subjected to force by government (or any entity) unless they harm others. Free movement of capital, goods and people is a natural corollary. Unlike most other countries, ours was founded not on ethnic, religious or territorial commonality, but on adherence to certain principles, of which individual freedom of choice is central. The USA is a fairly unique jurisdiction that did not even have any limitations on immigration for the first hundred years of its existence (until the thuggish unions pushed through the Chinese Exclusion bill).
It is quite ironic that nativists consider themselves super-patriots, while in reality they clamor for turning America into just another socialist nation-state with closed borders, restricted trade and - apparently - a psychotic jerk in the White House.
(Immigration also brings enormous economic and cultural benefits, of course, but that's another issue).
No, because America has acquired a reputation over the years as the promised land. Our whole shtick is that supposedly, anyone who comes here can create a better life for themselves; can keep their family safe and not have to worry about crime and violence and discrimination; can live in peace.
Any country isn't as good as any other country. Hungary isn't as good as Austria isn't as good as Germany isn't as good as.... it goes on and on down the line.
Yeah sure - it's not important or really right. East Berlin can tell you all about the reasons why not, and so can S. Korea, Japan and other countries that resist an influx of new citizens.
It's a sign of good faith, really: allowing freedom for citizens and others to choose to live there or not. When they choose you, it says a lot of positives about you. And if you can support an immigrant population, it means your country is stronger.
When a country begins to buckle down on immigration it's usually a sign that there's actual trouble with the populous or other issue. It's not a GOOD thing, per say.
Any level of government is going to entail a certain amount of force. Furthermore, limiting who comes into the country is not limiting the rights of anyone that is an actual citizen. There is no right to immigration, as far as I'm tracking. Additionally, unmitigated mass migration causes very real problems, no matter how idealistic someone tries to be.
I am amazed how Americans like grade school pablum as a replacement for common sense and the concept of cost and benefit.
But, hey, if you want to play charity games, it's fine with me. But it takes a certain mental dysfunction to be charitable with borrowed money.
Just in case you forgot, the U.S. is broke and immigrants consume more in government services and welfare than they produce in taxes. So, the missing part is yours to pay.
I hope it feels good.
more importantly, why do you have the right to tell other people they cant come to america because you got here first?
human migration has existed for tens of thousands of years, and its not going to stop just because you dont like the color of new immigrants, I really despise people who say they hate "illegal immigration" when everyone knows they just hate mexicans. If we were seeing massive amounts of immigrants from scandinavia the right wing wouldn't care, it wouldnt even make the news much less become the fake political issue it is today
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