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Why is government necessary?

Anarchon said:
I don't expect you to have read all of this, as it's getting quite long now, but this has already been covered. I concede that it is human nature to form hierarchical societies. However, humanity has already transcended some aspects of our nature because we've decided it was better to do so. Maslow says we have a need to do just that. You could say, it is our nature to overcome our nature. So, throwing off the chains of political slavery is not outside the realm of possibility in humanity's future, however improbable you think it is.
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There may come a day when anarchy would work, when everyone is good, moral, and is trustworthy, and everyone does the right thing at all times,
but given the current state of the earth and it's many terrible inhabitants, anarchy won't work, and it won't work for a long time to come.
 
Anarchon said:
You've seen what you allowed your government to con you into believing was anarchy.
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Incorrect on many levels. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Anarchon said:
And, you shouldn't make such assumptions about what I've seen or haven't. While you were in Somalia, I was in Iraq. It's central government had been toppled as well, if you'll recall. Governments of various forms still existed there via tribes, organized crime, and us.
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Iraq still had the infrastructure and trappings of government. A temporary military government. A provisional government.

Somalia didn't. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Anarchon said:
You were a part of Somalia's government, just as I was in Iraq.
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Incorrect, again. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Anarchon said:
Neither was an anarchy. Neither is an anarchy. Both are still ****holes.
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Incorrect, again. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Anarchon said:
I suppose that's true. But, see my sig.
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If you believe man is good and he bashes you head in and steals your belonging who will you cry out for?

Again. I have seen anarchy. You haven't.
 
OscarLevant said:
There may come a day when anarchy would work, when everyone is good, moral, and is trustworthy, and everyone does the right thing at all times,
but given the current state of the earth and it's many terrible inhabitants, anarchy won't work, and it won't work for a long time to come.
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I sincerely appreciate your saying that. That step was large, and I know it was difficult.
 
Fledermaus said:
To your first sentence.

He won the election which means he won the election. He is the President. He speaks for the US. He is our president. El Jefe. Commander in Chief.
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Given that, but for a program called Interstate Crosscheck, which should be, given it's flaws, illegal, that 1.1 million voters were purged in the US voter reg rolls, and many more in the swing states, plus the fact that in two of those swing states, provisional ballots issued to mostly minorities and blacks were not counted, and Jill Stein's lawsuit was not allowed to achieve fruition in the pursuit of the disenfranchised voters, provisional ballots, and many other aspects of voter suppression on a massive scale by republicans, etc. disenfranchising millions of people, most of whom are of color and minorities who tend to vote for democrats by a factor of more than 2 to 1, , I cannot accept that President trump is a legitimate president. But for IE, ( let alone a lot of other stuff ) Hillary would have won at least two of the swing states, and a different outcome would occurred. The IC numbers exceeded Trump vote tallies some 10 fold in the swing states, let alone the rest of the nation.
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Research on this subject brings me to this position, not emotion, or the loss, itself.

I cast no such sentiments when Bush won.

In short, the only thing in the US that is Fake, is Trump. He's always been a fraud, and becoming president he doesn't change his stripes.
 
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Fledermaus said:
Incorrect on many levels. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Somalia didn't. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Incorrect, again. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Incorrect, again. You really have no clue what Somalia was like.

Again. I have seen anarchy. You haven't.
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oscar.webp
 
Anarchon said:
I sincerely appreciate your saying that. That step was large, and I know it was difficult.
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You have a bad habit of putting things into the mouths of people that they did not say.

This idea " i know it as difficult" is your projection. The truth is, taht state of mind is my default. What I would assert for a perfect world, would be entirely different than what i would recommend for this world.

That is my default. There were no hurdles to jump over to say it. But why even say it, given that it's total unreality.

What you dont understand that, if that were true, that everyone was moral, just, trustworthy, etc., even money would not be needed. Everyone would just do their jobs because they are moral, they know they need to work in order to justify taking anything from society, nor would they take, because of their morality, more than they need. No one would, if everyone were moral, just, and bnear perfect. Every one would do a job, and everyone would only take from the system just what they need. If youi think it through, it is theoretically possible, even for a complex society. Now, corporations ( by that I mean self regulated worker cooperatives in the Chomsky syndicalist model ) under a much grander economic scale, maybe there would be a special exchange system for their complexity, but I'm not talking about that.

and it will not ever be the case for the long time future, and therefore, when I'm opposing anarchy, I'm doing for reasons of simple realism, not fantasy, or hopeful utopianist thinking. That is how I operate, at all times. Why have a goal for unreality? It's rather insane, when you look at it. You are doing this, and you are utilizing rationalizing thought to justify it.


Needs exist, and things exist to serve those needs. That is why government exists, ultimately, because governments are needed.

Anarchy will arrive when anarchy is needed by all, and not a moment sooner, for it wont work until that occurs.

My guess is that humanity is at least a millennium away from that possibility, so that's far enough for me to assert it's just unreality.
 
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OscarLevant said:
Given that, but for a program called Interstate Crosscheck, which should be, given it's flaws, illegal, that 1.1 million voters were purged in the US voter reg rolls, and many more in the swing states, plus the fact that in two of those swing states, provisional ballots issued to mostly minorities and blacks were not counted, and Jill Stein's lawsuit was not allowed to achieve fruition in the pursuit of the disenfranchised voters, provisional ballots, and many other aspects of voter suppression on a massive scale by republicans, etc. disenfranchising millions of people, most of whom are of color and minorities who tend to vote for democrats by a factor of more than 2 to 1, , I cannot accept that President trump is a legitimate president. But for IE, ( let alone a lot of other stuff ) Hillary would have won at least two of the swing states, and a different outcome would occurred. The IC numbers exceeded Trump vote tallies some 10 fold in the swing states, let alone the rest of the nation.
.
Research on this subject brings me to this position, not emotion, or the loss, itself.

I cast no such sentiments when Bush won.

In short, the only thing in the US that is Fake, is Trump. He's always been a fraud, and becoming president he doesn't change his stripes.
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The 1.1 million "purged". Were they prevented from voting? No. They could still vote provisionally. That happened to me once. Didn't hurt one bit.

Jill Stein's lawsuit was not allowed to achieve fruition because it was flawed from the get go.

Take the rest of your post to the Conspiracy Theory forum... In each state the recount results were either an increase in Trump votes or a wash.

He is the legitimate President. The Electoral College said so.
 
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