Why is abortion acceptable?

[gfm7175]

Having sex using birth control is very responsible.

As is abortion a very responsible choice:

No and no. Being free with sex and partaking in infanticide are not responsible actions...

There's nothing responsible about having a kid you cant afford and expecting tax payers to take up that burden with public assistance.

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid you arent emotionally prepared to have and may abuse or neglect.

Correct and correct. That's why people who can't afford to have kids shouldn't have them, and why people who are currently unable to be a good parent shouldn't have them...

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid if you know you wont stop drinking, smoking, doing drugs, etc that will damage the unborn.

WHOAAAAA wait a minute... I thought that the unborn was simply a "clump of cells", right?? Why do you care about how the unborn is treated inside the womb if you are perfectly okay with killing it off before it comes out? So, life is only precious if it is wanted by the mother of it?? If your mother got pregnant but didn't want you, then your life would be meaningless? You should have been aborted?? Doesn't seem sensible to me...

--There's nothing responsible about remaining pregnant and dropping out of high school or college or missing work and not fulfilling your potential in society.

Correct. That's why one shouldn't get pregnant while they are in school (at least during high school for sure).

--There's nothing responsible about having a kid and giving it up for adoption when there are already over 100,000 kids in America waiting to be adopted. It means one less waiting will find a home.[/indent]

Yes, there is. The kid stays alive and has potential to contribute to society, and has potential to find God and hear his comforting Word.

What is NOT responsible is being a baby machine when one is simply going to put them up for adoption, or have them taken away, or etc. etc. due to their being unfit to be a parent...

 

[gfm7175]

I find this a very embarrassing (for you and for our country) post and a grave failure of society and our public school system.

Argument of the Stone Fallacy... You are dismissing my argument as 'absurd' without any counterargument...

I find THAT to be embarrassing...

Let's not progress further back into the Dark Ages with this off-topic subject.

YOU were the one who brought up not wanting religion forced onto others... I'm showing you how it is done all the time...

Also, how does one "progress" backwards?? That would be REGRESSION, not progression...

Also, I'm not interested in your religious beliefs concerning the Church of Progress... Progress is NOT, for example, VHS to DVD to Blu-Ray... That's merely change...

 

[gfm7175]

Stop lying:

'You're lying' mantra dismissed on sight...

If all you can do is lie and use emotionally charged terms instead of having a solid, factual foundation for your argument...well, we can all see you've failed.

NOT what a fact is... Facts are not universal truths, nor are they proofs... Facts are shorthand predicate... That's all facts are...

 

[gfm7175]

Re: Because abortion law hadn't kept up with medical advances

So you consider everything in life just to be conveniences? Of so little value?

Not at all... I consider life to have deep meaning and purpose. That's why I am pro-life and abhor infanticide and the casual sex that leads up to it...

Then why are the unborn more entitled to those things than women?

Already answered...

 

[gfm7175]

It was a 'how' question and you conveniently (and obviously :doh) left off half the question. You only answered it partially...and that was exceedingly dishonest but you were so blatant about it that it's funny...because you put it in red and called attention to it! :mrgreen:

Like I said, the non-bolded portion was irrelevant due to my specific answer to the bolded portion. I have already explained my reasoning... At this point, you are ignoring my reasoning and repeating the argument that I already responded to... Argument By Repetition Fallacy.

 

[minnie616]

It appears you have very little objectivity on this topic due to your gender. I want you to consider this from all perspectives.

I have more insight because I have experienced the good and bad during my pregnancies.
I was extremely ill due to the pregnancy during my first pregnancy, my kidneys were damaged and I became so anemic by the time I was about to give birth my doctor was afraid I would bleed to death during the delivery. He had the delivery room set up to give me a complete blood transfusion. When I was wheeled into the delivery room I did know if I would live to see one or even know if I had a boy or girl.

I had 6 known pregnancies.
I have 4 born children.

I lost 2 to miscarriage and grieved for my loss.
Those miscarriages were between our 2ed and 3rd child.
The first miscarriage was early on about 5 or 6 week.
The other miscarriage was about 20 weeks when I miscarried a catastrophicly deformed little one.
So I know the heartache of parents who have lost an unborn due fetal deformities.

My daughter almost died from HELLP syndrome which another pregnancy complication that doctors don’t know why it happens but they think it is a type eclampsia.

I know the joy of being a mother of 4 children whom I love ver much.

I know the joy of being a grandparent. Grandkids are ton of fun.

So I think I look at the abortion issue from a variety of prospective.

After my life experiences I know one thing.
I made own choices , I chose to continue my pregnancies.

But I know I can not and I will not support a law that would ban elective abortions before viabilty.

Because I know each pregnancy is different.
I know even seemingly normal pregnancies can take a sudden turn for the worst.

I know each woman’s life experiences are different than mine and that each woman should be able to make her choices.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Bandwagon much?

The Supreme Court rules on the Constitution. So until they rule on the beginning of life I wll stick with the scientific community.


When it comes to Princeton that is very true, however the majority of the medical scientific community says the same thing that human life begins with the formation of the one-celled zygote. Common sense should tell you that is the beginning.

So even if Human life begins with the zygote. It still has to go through several changes before it becomes a living human being/person

Just as a tadpole is not yet toad. It goes through several changes before it becomes a toad.

A caterpillar is not a yet a butterfly. It too goes through changes before it becomes a butterfly.

 

[Old Sarge]

I have more insight because I have experienced the good and bad during my pregnancies.
I was extremely ill due to the pregnancy during my first pregnancy, my kidneys were damaged and I became so anemic by the time I was about to give birth my doctor was afraid I would bleed to death during the delivery. He had the delivery room set up to give me a complete blood transfusion. When I was wheeled into the delivery room I did know if I would live to see one or even know if I had a boy or girl.

I had 6 known pregnancies.
I have 4 born children.

I lost 2 to miscarriage and grieved for my loss.
Those miscarriages were between our 2ed and 3rd child.
The first miscarriage was early on about 5 or 6 week.
The other miscarriage was about 20 weeks when I miscarried a catastrophicly deformed little one.
So I know the heartache of parents who have lost an unborn due fetal deformities.

My daughter almost died from HELLP syndrome which another pregnancy complication that doctors don’t know why it happens but they think it is a type eclampsia.

I know the joy of being a mother of 4 children whom I love ver much.

I know the joy of being a grandparent. Grandkids are ton of fun.

So I think I look at the abortion issue from a variety of prospective.

After my life experiences I know one thing.
I made own choices , I chose to continue my pregnancies.

But I know I can not and I will not support a law that would ban elective abortions before viabilty.

Because I know each pregnancy is different.
I know even seemingly normal pregnancies can take a sudden turn for the worst.

I know each woman’s life experiences are different than mine and that each woman should be able to make her choices.

My condolences on your losses. Reading your history it amazes me that you can even remotely support abortion on demand. In principle it was a good idea, but like any good idea people will use it for reasons that it was never intended to be used for. Today abortion has been turned into an alternate form of birth control. There need be no compelling reason to seek one all a woman has to say is I want one and wa la a human life is snuffed out. That to me is the ultimate act of selfishness. Oh well the pendulum will swing the other way like it always does.

 

[Old Sarge]

Re: Bandwagon much?

So even if Human life begins with the zygote. It still has to go through several changes before it becomes a living human being/person

Just as a tadpole is not yet toad. It goes through several changes before it becomes a toad.

A caterpillar is not a yet a butterfly. It too goes through changes before it becomes a butterfly.

All very true and what happens if one keeps destroying the tadpoles, and caterpillars eventually the species becomes extinct. See there are many sides to any issue.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Not a personal attack at all but an observation. But then most progressives are thin skinned and can't accept the truth. Just another observation.

I'm not a progressive.

 

[minnie616]

I already proved it was unethical. Claiming that an unborn child does not have the same rights as other humans on the basis of being unborn is no different from claiming that blacks didn't have rights, and slavery is therefor ethical. Both positions are fallacious, as they require special pleading.

You proved nothing.
An unborn has no rights in the United States.

Unborns are not counted during the census.
Blacks and Women have always been counted during the census .

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Bandwagon much?

All very true and what happens if one keeps destroying the tadpoles, and caterpillars eventually the species becomes extinct. See there are many sides to any issue.

The human race going extinct would not necessarily be a bad thing.

Not that it's going to happen any time soon. For every abortion in the US, there are 3 live births.

 

[Old Sarge]

I'm not a progressive.

Did I say you were anything? All I did was make an observation. You are the one who choose to think I was referring to you.

 

[minnie616]

Correct, but now, you must remember, there is another life involved... That life has as much right to survive as anyone else does...

Who says?

God says... I say... many other people say...

And many disagree.

In fact the Religious Coaliation for Reproductive Choice ( an organization of over 30 religions and religious groups including the vast majority of Jewish and a large number of Protestant religions and their millions of members ) would disagree. Just to name one group.

 

[Old Sarge]

Re: Bandwagon much?

The human race going extinct would not necessarily be a bad thing.

Not that it's going to happen any time soon. For every abortion in the US, there are 3 live births.

The human race going extinct would not necessarily be a bad thing.

What a strange thing for a person to say????????

 

[gfm7175]

And many disagree.

In fact the Religious Coaliation for Reproductive Choice ( an organization of over 30 religions and religious groups including the vast majority of Jewish and a large number of Protestant religions and their millions of members ) would disagree. Just to name one group.

Correct.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Did I say you were anything? All I did was make an observation. You are the one who choose to think I was referring to you.

Then who were you referring to in your reply to *me*?

Not a personal attack at all but an observation. But then most progressives are thin skinned and can't accept the truth. Just another observation.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Bandwagon much?

What a strange thing for a person to say????????

Why is it strange?

 

[gfm7175]

Re: Bandwagon much?

The human race going extinct would not necessarily be a bad thing.

Not that it's going to happen any time soon. For every abortion in the US, there are 3 live births.

Splendid... Let's start with you, then... or would you be opposed to that?

 

[Old Sarge]

Then who were you referring to in your reply to *me*?

I was referring to exactly who I mentioned "progressives". You are trying to make an issue where no issue exist. I am beginning to think you have a chip on your shoulder.

 

[Old Sarge]

Re: Bandwagon much?

Why is it strange?

Well the last thing a person would normally think or say is the extinction of the human race as being a good thing.

 

[Lursa]

Some of the comments in this thread are horrifying. Claiming the rights of the mother supersede the rights of the fetus at all times? That's just shocking!!!

You have a breathing and living human in the womb. The strongest bond a mother has is with its baby. There is no conflict between the two. A mother will do anything for it, even sacrifice her own life!

So what are you worried about then?

If that's what mothers do...then what's the problem? Have you seen anyone recommending forcing women to abort?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Bandwagon much?

The Supreme Court rules on the Constitution. So until they rule on the beginning of life I wll stick with the scientific community.


When it comes to Princeton that is very true, however the majority of the medical scientific community says the same thing that human life begins with the formation of the one-celled zygote. Common sense should tell you that is the beginning.

How can a legislative body determine a scientific finding? Science has clearly stated when life begins...that's not in question. That is objective science. Science applies no value or status however...those things are subjective.

It's about recognizing rights for human life. (That has nothing to do with science) And it cant be just assumed that our DOI or Constitution meant all human life because originally, blacks and women were not recognized as equal with full rights either. SCOTUS examined both and then recognized us them/us as equal.

SCOTUS did the same for the unborn and determined they aren not equal. They recognized no rights for the unborn.

Blacks and women were able to fully exercise rights when that legal recognition occurred...the unborn can do no such thing,

Before birth, the unborn has no rights that can be separated from the mother (physically, legally, ethically, practically). It's a dependency that truly demonstrates that it is not equal.

They do not have a single right that they can exercise independently.​

The unborn achieve equal status when they are born.

It's not possible to treat born and unborn equally under the law. Which would you choose to recognize as equal? Women or the unborn? That's the choice.

While I value the unborn, I value all born people more and that's why I support equal rights for women, not the unborn.

 

[Lursa]

My post stating [["Yes, they are recreationally killing off "to-be-born" infants."]] was not an appeal to emotion. It was a statement of truth, and the no-bones way of stating what is happening...

It was a lie unless you are unable to comprehend the words that you use...even after I give you the dictionary definition.

Of course it's not rational to use words in your own invented way and expect other people to understand, respect, or use them that way.

 

[Lursa]

God says... I say... many other people say...

That's fine. Just as long as you remember that our laws dont allow you to demand other people follow your beliefs.

With pro-choice, every woman can decide according to her own beliefs.