Why is abortion a state issue?

[Scrabaholic]

They try sometimes but they often get slapped down by the supreme court

Good. Acting the way you are you shouldn't get your way.

Okay show me that the baby just magically pops into existence upon birth and that the pregnancy is not related to that at all.

So it's killed or does it get to go live on a farm somewhere?

This isn't a medical issue. It isn't medicine. There is no disease that is cured by having an abortion.

I can name two off the bat - HELLP Syndrome and Pregnancy Induced Hypertension.

 

[CLAX1911]

CLAX, you just don't want to believe anything except your religion is correct.

My opinion is based on religion I think you and others rely on this accusation because it makes it easier to demonize people.

When you have to do that it's because you don't have a strong position.

Even if every pro-choicer on DP posted multiple totally unbiased, peer-reviewed, fact-checked articles written by gynecology/obstetrics specialists with Ph.D and doctorate degrees, you would refuse to click on any of them and claim they are all lies or opinions.

How do you post an unbiased fact check article about an opinion?

We're talking about whether it's right or wrong to kill a baby in the womb

It is extremely obvious to everyone who thinks logically, rationally, analytically, and critically people like you want to ignore all of the repeatedly proven facts only for the sake of pushing lies based on or about their religions.

Attempting to insult pathetically I might add people who don't agree with you is a poor argument tactic. I'm not illogical I'm not irrational I'm not anything for having the opinion I do my opinion is entirely based on logic and not religion at all.

I have seen this many times, including from you on multiple occasions. You can't hide from yourself; your behavior pattern is out there for everyone to see. Until you stop posting questions and comments that are based on religion nobody has any reason to prove anything to you with scientific article links because they all know what your reaction will be.

Nothing I've posted is biased on the basis of religion as far as I know that religion doesn't even discuss any of this.

I think the religion angle is just a way to attack people who argue against you.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

I can name two off the bat - HELLP Syndrome and Pregnancy Induced Hypertension.

HELLP Syndrome is what happens when preeclampsia is not treated early IIRC. Hypertension is one of its symptoms. Both problems will cause the fetus to be born with severe cerebral palsy if he/she survives. If not treated early, both the mother and fetus will die. For these and other reasons, I would have an abortion if I was pregnant and diagnosed with preeclampsia or HELLP Syndrome.

 

[CLAX1911]

I can name two off the bat - HELLP Syndrome and Pregnancy Induced Hypertension.

No an abortion isn't a cure for either one of those. Because if you get pregnant again the condition will return will it not?

 

[weaver2]

Declaring something as though it were science without it actually being science is absolutely lefty religion

No you're not you tried to ram your ideas down my throat it demanded that I accepted it as science that's anti freedom

I don't care if you accept it you're not going to force your religious bullshit down my throat. This isn't a medical decision

Begging me to go away is not supporting your claim

OMG you really don't understand embryology, science, religion, the law, the Constitution or anything any one has tried to tell you.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

OMG you really don't understand embryology, science, religion, the law, the Constitution or anything anyone has tried to tell you.

He does everything possible to avoid learning facts. See my post right above yours.

 

[CLAX1911]

He does everything possible to avoid learning facts. See my post right above yours.

You're just declaring opinions as fact and refusing to listen to any arguments.

There's a word for that it's called bigotry.

 

[Scrabaholic]

No an abortion isn't a cure for either one of those. Because if you get pregnant again the condition will return will it not?

Yes, it does cure the condition. It may or may not happen with subsequent pregnancies.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

You're just declaring opinions as fact and refusing to listen to any arguments.

There's a word for that it's called bigotry.

You are the bigot here, not me.

Where is your undeniable proof from totally unbiased, peer-reviewed, fact-checked articles full of verifiable evidence supporting scientific claims by obstetricians who only think critically, analytically, rationally, and logically about their respective medical specialty and a lot of very similar references that all unborn humans have value and do not harm Mom or themselves in any way before they become viable?

After you post them and prove me wrong, we can talk about my religious beliefs.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yes, it does cure the condition. It may or may not happen with subsequent pregnancies.

That's not what cure means.

 

[BirdinHand]

That's not what cure means.

Abortion rids the woman of the placenta.

PIH, HELPP, preeclampsia - they are all caused by the placenta. A placenta is specific to a pregnancy. It is expelled during the abortion.

So once that placenta is expelled, so is that diseased tissue.

 

[CLAX1911]

You are the bigot here, not me.

I didn't call you names I described obstinacy in one own opinion and disregard of other as bigotry and that is the definition. I didn't even accuse you of it.

Where is your undeniable proof from totally unbiased, peer-reviewed, fact-checked articles full of verifiable evidence supporting scientific claims by obstetricians who only think critically, analytically, rationally, and logically about their respective medical specialty and a lot of very similar references that all unborn humans have value and do not harm Mom or themselves in any way before they become viable?

I don't need all of that. The baby in the womb is human and left alone will be born barring natural processes that cause miscarriage. If a baby harms you don't get pregnant. There are dozens of forms of contraception

After you post them and prove me wrong, we can talk about my religious beliefs.

Religion isn't involved here. That's just a way for you to slander your opposition.

 

[CLAX1911]

Abortion rids the woman of the placenta.

PIH, HELPP, preeclampsia - they are all caused by the placenta. A placenta is specific to a pregnancy. It is expelled during the abortion.

So once that placenta is expelled, so is that diseased tissue.

So it isn't a cure.

 

[Gordy327]

No an abortion isn't a cure for either one of those. Because if you get pregnant again the condition will return will it not?

Not necessarily. A woman's risk for getting HELLP in a second pregnancy is higher if she had it with the 1st pregnancy. But even then, there is a 20% chance she will develop it again. And yes, abortion is a treatment for it. Eliminate the pregnacy, and the condition can resolve.

If a baby harms you don't get pregnant. There are dozens of forms of contraception

That's an ignorant statement. In many cases, there is no way to know if harm will occur until pregnancy does or proceeds far enough along.

Religion isn't involved here. That's just a way for you to slander your opposition.

It shouldn't be involved. Religion is just an excuse to get in other peoples business.

We're talking about whether it's right or wrong to kill a baby in the womb

There is no baby in the womb and there is nothing wrong with it.

I'm not illogical I'm not irrational I'm not anything for having the opinion I do my opinion is entirely based on logic and not religion at all.

Yet you call the unborn a "baby." That's erroneous and illogical.

So what is it a toaster a giraffe a jar of barbecue sauce

A fetus.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Abortion rids the woman of the placenta.

PIH, HELPP, preeclampsia - they are all caused by the placenta. A placenta is specific to a pregnancy. It is expelled during the abortion.

So once that placenta is expelled, so is that diseased tissue.

That is why both the mother and offspring get sick. It is genetically a shared organ.

 

[choiceone]

That's not what cure means.

Cure means that, in a specific case of bodily illness, the illness is stopped. That doesn't mean another specific case of bodily illness will never occur. If a woman has pregnancy-induced hypertension in one pregnancy, she doesn't have to have it in a different pregnancy. Each specific pregnancy is different.

That's why, if a woman has an abortion of a very ill, deformed fetus and then gets pregnant half a year later, the second fetus can be properly formed and healthy. Again, if a woman has a pregnancy she wants to abort and isn't allowed to do so, she can be really ill, but if she has the abortion and then later has a pregnancy she doesn't want to abort, she can be healthy.

So when anti-abortion laws interfere with a woman's natural choice, they are responsible if she dies, if she is seriously injured, if she becomes permanently disabled, etc., it's all the state's responsibility. And if the state does this, I think we need to sue that state into bankruptcy paying for its killing and torturing and maiming women.

 

[choiceone]

So it isn't a cure.

A placenta is made at the chemical direction of the embryo. The embryo without permission causes the woman's tissue to be used for part of it. It isn't the woman's responsibility. The genetics which cause the development of the placenta are the embryo's. The embryo, therefore, makes the woman have the problem. If you're the state and you allow the embryo to hurt the woman and don't allow the woman to defend herself against the embryo, you, the state, are a big bully, rapist, and all round generally evil ----.

 

[Scrabaholic]

I don't need all of that. The baby in the womb is human and left alone will be born barring natural processes that cause miscarriage. If a baby harms you don't get pregnant. There are dozens of forms of contraception

Ok, then - all you have to do is turn straight if you want equal rights, we don't have to force them in law.

 

[Scrabaholic]

So it isn't a cure.

Bovine excrement. Cancer is considered cured after five years, yet can still come back after that.

 

[CLAX1911]

Cure means that, in a specific case of bodily illness, the illness is stopped. That doesn't mean another specific case of bodily illness will never occur. If a woman has pregnancy-induced hypertension in one pregnancy, she doesn't have to have it in a different pregnancy. Each specific pregnancy is different.

That's why, if a woman has an abortion of a very ill, deformed fetus and then gets pregnant half a year later, the second fetus can be properly formed and healthy. Again, if a woman has a pregnancy she wants to abort and isn't allowed to do so, she can be really ill, but if she has the abortion and then later has a pregnancy she doesn't want to abort, she can be healthy.

So when anti-abortion laws interfere with a woman's natural choice, they are responsible if she dies, if she is seriously injured, if she becomes permanently disabled, etc., it's all the state's responsibility. And if the state does this, I think we need to sue that state into bankruptcy paying for its killing and torturing and maiming women.

Yeah abortion is not a cure for anything.

 

[CLAX1911]

Bovine excrement. Cancer is considered cured after five years, yet can still come back after that.

Abortion isn't a cure for anything.

 

[CLAX1911]

Ok, then - all you have to do is turn straight if you want equal rights, we don't have to force them in law.

So getting pregnant is like being gay you just go through a process and remove it or avoid something and not be gay?

 

[Gordy327]

Abortion isn't a cure for anything.

IT's a cure for pregnancy and all the potential issue that go along with pregnancy.

 

[CLAX1911]

IT's a cure for pregnancy and all the potential issue that go along with pregnancy.

Pregnancy isn't an illness.

 

[Gordy327]

Pregnancy isn't an illness.

I'd say that's for the pregnant woman to decide for herself. Regardless, it can certainly cause illness. Or worse. Abortion effectively eliminates the cause.