Why I don't "understand" complaints about vaccine mandates

[snakestretcher]

I'll quote whomever I choose, but I don't need to quote the NRA...lol

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www.cnsnews.com

I'll use the CDC. They can't be questioned.

Ah, an opinion piece from 'Gun Owners of America'. Obviously unbiased then. Furthermore your CDC cite is from 2013. This is what's happening now...

The spike in gun violence continues, with 2021 on pace to be the worst year in decades

So far, 2021 is on pace to be the worst year for gun violence in decades, surpassing even the high levels last year.

edition.cnn.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/14/2021-gun-violence/

Where were the 'good guys with guns'?

 

[snakestretcher]

Seatbelt laws were passed via legislation, not executive order. Therein lies the difference. Had seatbelt laws been an executive order, they would be unconstitutional, too. See how that works?

They are still mandatory, irrespective of how the legislation was enacted. Was their constitututional validity argued when the law was put in place?

 

[Big Eye]

To me, the most salient point about the science of the Covid vaccine is this: mRNA vaccines have been researched for 30-ish years. In all that time, prior to Covid, how many mRNA vaccines made it to market? ...... uh ...... Zero. Not a single one was able to make it to the FDA approval process. You'd think in all that time the science of mRNA vaccines would have been perfected to allow them to make it to market. Yet, magically, POOF! The mRNA covid vaccine accomplished what all those others couldn't - and in less than a year even. If the development of the Covid vaccine solved the problems with mRNA vaccines - how many of these other vaccines used that "fix" and are available now? Zero. Why is that?

If the truth was told about the vaccine, more people just might be inclined to take it. Instead, all that's being put forth is how the vaccine is a panacea. It isn't. By lying, the rabid pro vax crowd is doing more harm than good.

Neither Moderna ( formed in 2010) or BioNTech ( formed in 2008) have made a penny…before this “pandemic”. They were incapable of making working medicine, they have a zero success rate …and now a top statistician and his team have shown that these vaccines have no affect on all causes of mortality measurements in the U.K. This is all looking very odd Imo…

 

[Big Eye]

No..you don't get it. A simple antibody test does not tell anyone if you need vaccination as it does not tell you definitively the level of immunity you have.
And vaccination us critical for the immunosuppressed
Both for themselves to give their bodies,a chance at fighting off the disease.
And for others to get vaccinated to protect the immuno suppressed.
You don't have clue about medical matters and should stop posting

Lol…it’s pretty easy, if you have had the disease you are capable of knowing whether you think the vaccines are necessary for yourself…the vaccines only add a small amount of shorter lived protection to natural immunity…as already pointed out in that link.

The vaccines seem to have limited use for the immunosuppressed …because they don’t have a decent immune system to fire up with the vaccines.

COVID-19 Vaccines and Immunocompromised People: Fully Vaccinated and Not Protected | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Only 50% of people who are immunocompromised show an antibody response to COVID-19 after vaccination.

publichealth.jhu.edu

It is known beyond a doubt that the vaccines are poor at stopping infection.

Maybe you should stop posting until you have actually read about the subject rather than just sucking up propaganda and then spewing it here…ta.

 

[Big Eye]

Yes..check the time spans..from what your article used.
You just don't even understand the research you cited.

I clearly understand it better than you …there is a 10 to 20 % increase in protection after around 6 months with a jab on top of natural immunity. Natural immunity also clearly lasts longer.

 

[Big Eye]

Yeah no dude.
You asked about overall mortality between vaxxed and unvaccinated in the population.
But link to your study so I cam prove you wrong yet again.
Cripes..you have been shown to be wrong so many times its like you want to be proven wrong.
Let's see your link regarding this two week spike after vaccination.

There is no difference in all cause mortality between the vaxxed and unvaxxed regardless of age group. There is however a spike in the death rate in the first two weeks when the unvaxxed receive their age cohort vaccinations…luckily for the vaccine manufacturers the first two weeks after vaccination are counted as unvaccinated…..I’ll let you think about what that might mean lol.

Comparing age adjusted all-cause mortality rates in England between vaccinated and unvaccinated

Norman Fenton and Martin Neil 23 Sept 2021 The UK Government's own data does not support the claims made for vaccine effectiveness/safety. In a previous post we argued that the most reliable long-term measure of Covid-19 vaccine effectiveness/safety is the age adjusted all-cause mortality...

www.normanfenton.com

 

[Fledermaus]

View attachment 67364469

This article is STILL a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

 

[jaeger19]

There is no difference in all cause mortality between the vaxxed and unvaxxed regardless of age group. There is however a spike in the death rate in the first two weeks when the unvaxxed receive their age cohort vaccinations…luckily for the vaccine manufacturers the first two weeks after vaccination are counted as unvaccinated…..I’ll let you think about what that might mean lol.

Comparing age adjusted all-cause mortality rates in England between vaccinated and unvaccinated

Norman Fenton and Martin Neil 23 Sept 2021 The UK Government's own data does not support the claims made for vaccine effectiveness/safety. In a previous post we argued that the most reliable long-term measure of Covid-19 vaccine effectiveness/safety is the age adjusted all-cause mortality...

www.normanfenton.com

Pooh. The study is so extremely limited that it has little meaning.
However besides the glaring problems with their analysis that they point out..
The result could be due to selection bias.
Within each age group..those with the most risk in that age group got vaccinated..while those with the least risk refused vaccination.
By the way if you have had the disease you have no idea of how bad your next infection will be.
Some of my patients first infections were mild and their second infection put them in the hospital where they would have died without the treatments we have now.

Please stop posting your dis information.

 

[jaeger19]

I clearly understand it better than you …there is a 10 to 20 % increase in protection after around 6 months with a jab on top of natural immunity. Natural immunity also clearly lasts longer.

30 risk days versus 11 risk days.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

They are still mandatory, irrespective of how the legislation was enacted. Was their constitututional validity argued when the law was put in place?

Legislation can only be passed by a legislature. Its the only legal way laws can be made in The United States. Laws can't be made by executive order. I'm not saying that a law, mandating vaccines, passed by a state legislature, or Congress would be unconstitutional. I'm saying an executive order mandating vaccines is unconstitutional. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Ah, an opinion piece from 'Gun Owners of America'. Obviously unbiased then. Furthermore your CDC cite is from 2013. This is what's happening now...

The spike in gun violence continues, with 2021 on pace to be the worst year in decades

So far, 2021 is on pace to be the worst year for gun violence in decades, surpassing even the high levels last year.

edition.cnn.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/14/2021-gun-violence/

Where were the 'good guys with guns'?

There hasn't been anything to refute the CDC study, so until there is, the anti-gunners don't have a leg to stand on. We can't question the CDC. Right?

 

[jaeger19]

Legislation can only be passed by a legislature. Its the only legal way laws can be made in The United States. Laws can't be made by executive order. I'm not saying that a law, mandating vaccines, passed by a state legislature, or Congress would be unconstitutional. I'm saying an executive order mandating vaccines is unconstitutional. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

That's debatable. Congress created laws that created OSHA with the purview that the agencies job was work place safety.
Now..do you expect that to do that job ..congress had to in a law mandate..each and every piece of safety equipment than needs to be on each and e etc piece of equipment used by a US company?

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

That's debatable. Congress created laws that created OSHA with the purview that the agencies job was work place safety.
Now..do you expect that to do that job ..congress had to in a law mandate..each and every piece of safety equipment than needs to be on each and e etc piece of equipment used by a US company?

No, it isn't debatable...lol

But, as you pointed out: Congress created a law

 

[danielpalos]

Anti-vaxxers are no better than "border jumpers" and should be considered worse as citizens of our republic.

 

[jaeger19]

No, it isn't debatable...lol

But, as you pointed out: Congress created a law

That's right..they created a law that created a OSHA in 1970.
Which gave the authority for the federal government to set and enforce safety standards for workplace safety.
A mandat to get vaccinated or do weekly testing would fall under that set and enforce workplace safety standards.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

That's right..they created a law that created a OSHA in 1970.
Which gave the authority for the federal government to set and enforce safety standards for workplace safety.
A mandat to get vaccinated or do weekly testing would fall under that set and enforce workplace safety standards.

An executive order mandating vaccines is not a law

 

[danielpalos]

Fixing Standards for the Union is what Congress is delegated the social power to do.

 

[jaeger19]

An executive order mandating vaccines is not a law

It doesn't need to be. The federal government is given the power to SET safety standards per the Occupational Safety and Health Act.
One of those standards can be testing and vaccination.

 

[Big Eye]

Pooh. The study is so extremely limited that it has little meaning.
However besides the glaring problems with their analysis that they point out..
The result could be due to selection bias.
Within each age group..those with the most risk in that age group got vaccinated..while those with the least risk refused vaccination.
By the way if you have had the disease you have no idea of how bad your next infection will be.
Some of my patients first infections were mild and their second infection put them in the hospital where they would have died without the treatments we have now.

Please stop posting your dis information.

Luckily ,as proven by the good professor Fenton..the risks of death from all causes is no higher for the unvaxxed than the vaxxed...and being that he is one of the world's leading risk statistions I think we can assume his team has thought this through better than you...given your maths ability I can vouch for that lol...

In the UK 2/3 of all Covid cases in hospital are at least double jabbed ..that's another fact for you to consider ...

 

[snakestretcher]

Luckily ,as proven by the good professor Fenton..the risks of death from all causes is no higher for the unvaxxed than the vaxxed...and being that he is one of the world's leading risk statistions I think we can assume his team has thought this through better than you...given your maths ability I can vouch for that lol...

In the UK 2/3 of all Covid cases in hospital are at least double jabbed ..that's another fact for you to consider ...

Viruses don't care about statistics or maths. You can play with numbers as much as you like if it makes you feel better, but they won't stop you getting infected.

 

[Big Eye]

30 risk days versus 11 risk days.

Lol...maths is not your strong point ...try again... The clue is in the time frames ...there is only a slight increase in protection with a jab on top of previous infection...10 to 20%...and the protection from jabs is very short lived unlike from previous infection.

 

[snakestretcher]

Lol...maths is not your strong point ...try again... The clue is in the time frames ...there is only a slight increase in protection with a jab on top of previous infection...10 to 20%...and the protection from jabs is very short lived unlike from previous infection.

Neither immunity acquired from infection, nor that from vaccination, are currently measured in more than months-maybe a year from the former.

How long does covid-19 immunity last?

Many questions remain about both natural and vaccine induced immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Chris Baraniuk reviews what we know so far This is difficult to say definitively. When the body’s immune system responds to an infection, it isn’t always clear how long any immunity that develops will persist...

www.bmj.com

 

[Big Eye]

Viruses don't care about statistics or maths.

That's true...but the numbers are being used to map the true impact of this virus and the true impact of vaccines...there should be a clear increase in all cause deaths in the unvaxxed if the virus is as bad as we are told and if the vaccines are as effective as we are told...there is no difference other than a spike in deaths immediately after vaccinations ...luckily for vaccine manufacturers those deaths are counted as unvaxxed. This is clearly a stitch up ...neither Moderna or BioNtech has ever made a successful drug.

 

[Big Eye]

Neither immunity acquired from infection, nor that from vaccination, are currently measured in more than months-maybe a year from the former.

How long does covid-19 immunity last?

Many questions remain about both natural and vaccine induced immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Chris Baraniuk reviews what we know so far This is difficult to say definitively. When the body’s immune system responds to an infection, it isn’t always clear how long any immunity that develops will persist...

www.bmj.com

The Israeli study I linked to earlier is the latest attempt to measure how long and how good immunity is from infection and vaccines. Natural immunity seems to last much longer...with one jab on top comes a slight improvement. ..but I see no reason why anti body tests that show high levels are not as good as these vaccines given that 2jabs without previous infection is not as good as previous infection alone.

 

[Big Eye]

We must stop ignoring natural immunity - it’s now long overdue!

www.bmj.com