Why I don't "understand" complaints about vaccine mandates

[Fledermaus]

I was not talking to you.

Public forum

 

[Ethel2]

I see.

So you don't care if 52,000 Americans die every year?

But you do care if a LOT more do.


For the record?

How many Americans have to die of something before you officially decide that everyone else should start getting vaccines to try and save them?
Even if they do not want to?

50,000?
100,000?
500,000?

Please, give us a number so we know when we should start running to our doctors to get vaccines to please you 'normal' people?

No, I won’t define a number. I sarcastically gave 500,000 earlier.
The point is that Covid is >15x deadlier than influenza AND we have several vaccines that are extremely safe and effective-AND vaccination is the fastest way to control the pandemic.
It is the covidiots who are holding normal people hostage. It’s time for us to fight back, and we are. The state and federal governments and businesses everywhere are creating unpleasant choices for the covidiots-get vaccinated or try to find work elsewhere. I wholeheartedly approve of the direction the country is headed vis a vis the pandemic.

 

[Ethel2]

SWEDEN failed miserably to protect their people.

A fact you continue to ignore.

The far right extremists here like to compare Sweden to the countries with horrible case/death records.
Let’s compare them to their neighbors with similar (though not equal) demographics.

 

[Ethel2]

1) But you said 500,000.
Now you say something else.
Which is it?

2) And where is a link that proves that covidiots are selfish jerks by definition?

My term; my definition. I think it gets the point across

 

[uptower]

 

[code1211]

Lockdowns or quarantining [in theory] should certainly work to reduce the spread of communicable diseases. We have had Leper colonies since Biblical times. Someone here even suggested people who refuse to get the COVID vaccines be sent to some island. Hawaii still has a now voluntary leper colony on the island of Molokai. Not sure there is enough room on Molokai for all modern day "lepers" who refuse to get vaccinated against COVID, but there are plenty of Alaskan islands we could send our modern day "lepers" to them to fend for themselves.

We had sanitoriums for people with tuberculosis before we had an effective treatment. Cuba used forced quarantining on people infected with HIV (AIDS virus) for over 10 years back in 1980s & 1990s and it certainly helped prevent the spread of AIDS on Cuba. Who can argue with their intent to stop the spread of such a deadly disease? Think of the lives that could have been saved if "Typhoid Mary" had only been identified and quarantined on some Aleutian Island?

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Of course, if you think about it, historically people with communicable diseases were shunned and isolated or quarantined and it certainly could be an effective way to limit the spread of communicable diseases. China's Xi was having his minions nail shut the apartment doors and windows of those infected with the Wuhan virus in Wuhan, while allowing others to fly to Italy, the USA, England, and other countries. Even today India still has hundreds of leper colonies and these lepers are even more restricted than the "untouchables". But there is one big difference between these quarantines and the type of quarantine some on the progressive left here seem all too eager to impose of the anti-vaxers. In this case the quarantining would be of healthy people rather than those already infected with the disease. Indeed, a large portion of those who are refusing to get vaccinated against COVID have already been infected and recovered and so have significantly better and longer lasting immunity than those who have been vaccinated. These 150 to 200 million "COVID" survivors appear to pose even less of a risk to other Americans than do the more PC folks who dutifully got their shot as our Senile "Uncle Joe" has demanded.

Now I am sure Xi in China had no problem with limiting the freedom of people who are guilty of "thought crimes" such as questioning their "dear leaders" authority. However, I am not so sure most Americans are yet willing enough to comply with being locked up or isolated from the rest of society due to defiance of "Uncle Joe's" "Big Brother" fiats or mandates. Now the progressive left has already determined that many dead Americans were guilty of "thought crimes" like "racism" and so must be "cancelled" from US history and their statues torn down. Ask any enlightened BLM supporter and they will tell you their "post-truths". Seems a tad too Orwellian for me but I am not a big fan of authoritarian dictators. More here:

How ‘1984’ Has Become a How-To Manual

www.theepochtimes.com

A strict quarantine and "colonies" that shun victims are vastly different than that to which we were subjected by the police state mitigation measures.

The shut downs attacked the enemies identified by the zealots like Churches. Grocery stores and big box stores remained open.

Running a "quarantine" that demands that we all congregate at grocery stores and Walmart to bring home eggs and Covid was insanity. Not wise or even justifiable using science.

Like almost all things run by government, even if the goals are noble, the execution was stupid and the outcomes disastrously hurtful to those cited as the folks that the plans were intended to help.

To quote one of the folks working hard to help the long suffering people of Viet Nam during my youth: "We had to burn the village to save it". Reactionary morons decided they needed burn America to save it.

 

[code1211]

View attachment 67358737

The cartoon should have shown baby Beagles being tortured and killed in Fauci Financed labs.

Experiments around the world financed by Fauci had dogs, de-barked, drugged, dissected and eaten alive by bugs in several "reprehensible misuse of taxpayer funds".

Unfeeling monster seems to describe this guy perfectly. A whimsical smile graces his face as he slumbers, dreaming of being born in time to run labs in 1930's Germany.

Fauci under fire for puppy experiments using disease-causing parasites

A group of 24 bi-partisan lawmakers are demanding answers from Dr. Anthony Fauci after a nonprofit claims he permitted experimental drug testing on dogs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[code1211]

As I wrote many times here, every nation in the world employed mitigation measures including mask mandates and lockdowns. If I were you I would be asking myself “what do they know that I obviously don’t know”- rather than arrogantly insisting that you know better than them. You do realize how this looks to normal people, right?
I think you should go on braying that mitigation measures are useless. I’ll stick with the science instead, listening to people who know far more than either of us.
You are dismissed.

You continue to dismiss actual facts and data from the real world and cling to the dogma that the leaders you followed were insightful and wise.

They were idiots acting out of panic with no wisdom, no science and no idea of what to do.

Who runs a quarantine that demands that the folks in jeopardy congregate at Grocery stores to bring home the bacon and a nice case of Covid?

Their actions succeeded in destroying the country and delivering more control to the petty tyrants whi9le allowing the virus to do what the virus did.

Why are you dismissing reality? You don't need to defend the indefensible. Everybody already KNOWS what happened.

Among the various crimes they committed was using propaganda to deceive the weak minded. They were also successful in this. Apparently.

Again: EVERYBODY knew in June of 2020 that kids were immune and the groups most threatened were elderly, over weight and infirm. EVERYBODY!

I am NOT saying I knew more than they knew. I'm asking why, when they knew the facts, did they ignore the facts? Why are people like you STILL ignoring the facts?

 

[Ethel2]

The cartoon should have shown baby Beagles being tortured and killed in Fauci Financed labs.

Experiments around the world financed by Fauci had dogs, de-barked, drugged, dissected and eaten alive by bugs in several "reprehensible misuse of taxpayer funds".

Unfeeling monster seems to describe this guy perfectly. A whimsical smile graces his face as he slumbers, dreaming of being born in time to run labs in 1930's Germany.

Fauci under fire for puppy experiments using disease-causing parasites

A group of 24 bi-partisan lawmakers are demanding answers from Dr. Anthony Fauci after a nonprofit claims he permitted experimental drug testing on dogs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

“The Daily Mail”

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Ethel2]

You continue to dismiss actual facts and data from the real world and cling to the dogma that the leaders you followed were insightful and wise.

They were idiots acting out of panic with no wisdom, no science and no idea of what to do.

Who runs a quarantine that demands that the folks in jeopardy congregate at Grocery stores to bring home the bacon and a nice case of Covid?

Their actions succeeded in destroying the country and delivering more control to the petty tyrants whi9le allowing the virus to do what the virus did.

Why are you dismissing reality? You don't need to defend the indefensible. Everybody already KNOWS what happened.

Among the various crimes they committed was using propaganda to deceive the weak minded. They were also successful in this. Apparently.

Again: EVERYBODY knew in June of 2020 that kids were immune and the groups most threatened were elderly, over weight and infirm. EVERYBODY!

I am NOT saying I knew more than they knew. I'm asking why, when they knew the facts, did they ignore the facts? Why are people like you STILL ignoring the facts?

I am not ignoring the facts
I am ignoring the bs you write here
It is a fact that nearly every single country in the world employed mitigation measures and it’s also a fact that if people are separated from each other and when closer together wear a mask that transmission is reduced.
I will no longer debate these facts with you. Mitigation measures served to reduce the number of cases and deaths. Without them the toll would have been much higher.
You are not smarter than every world leader.

 

[code1211]

Well that post is going to hurt your "Social Credit Score". We cannot have that type of thinking according to "Uncle Joe" and his minions.

It seems that a "Social Credit Score" will likely become/ is becoming a thing.

I remember a time when actions spoke louder than words. No more.

Seems like loud mouthed morons are in charge now.

There are still people who like Biden more than Trump. Can you imagine??!?

 

[code1211]

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

Among both groups, it seems like the three most threatened groups, the elderly, the obese and the infirm, should be defined within the numbers.

The site seems to stress, "fully vaccinated" and infections rather than deaths.

Also omitted is the data showing if the infected in either line are recovered from previous infections and therefore have anti bodies or are infected for the first time.

In almost every example of "information" issued by our government, information that they would have presented if they were honest dealers is withheld and propaganda that serves their purposes and goals is presented.

To me, this is worrisome.

 

[Fledermaus]

You continue to dismiss actual facts and data from the real world and cling to the dogma that the leaders you followed were insightful and wise.

They were idiots acting out of panic with no wisdom, no science and no idea of what to do.

Who runs a quarantine that demands that the folks in jeopardy congregate at Grocery stores to bring home the bacon and a nice case of Covid?

Their actions succeeded in destroying the country and delivering more control to the petty tyrants whi9le allowing the virus to do what the virus did.

Why are you dismissing reality? You don't need to defend the indefensible. Everybody already KNOWS what happened.

Among the various crimes they committed was using propaganda to deceive the weak minded. They were also successful in this. Apparently.

Again: EVERYBODY knew in June of 2020 that kids were immune and the groups most threatened were elderly, over weight and infirm. EVERYBODY!

I am NOT saying I knew more than they knew. I'm asking why, when they knew the facts, did they ignore the facts? Why are people like you STILL ignoring the facts?

Kids are not immune.

That is a bad faced lie.

 

[Parrish]

Among both groups, it seems like the three most threatened groups, the elderly, the obese and the infirm, should be defined within the numbers.

The site seems to stress, "fully vaccinated" and infections rather than deaths.

Also omitted is the data showing if the infected in either line are recovered from previous infections and therefore have anti bodies or are infected for the first time.

In almost every example of "information" issued by our government, information that they would have presented if they were honest dealers is withheld and propaganda that serves their purposes and goals is presented.

To me, this is worrisome.

The "infirm" are those with autoimmune issues, cancer/ cancer survivors, transplants, heart patients, Down Syndrome, MD, MS, children. There are more but that's a large number of vulnerable people.

 

[code1211]

Well, I have to partially disagree with you here.

Wearing masks and standing a certain distance from someone WILL lessen the chances of catching an airborne, contagious disease.
And I think it is clear that the vaccines help those who are in danger from Covid-19 (the elderly and those with weakened respiratory systems).

My problem with the whole thing is that the lockdowns were un-Constitutional, caused a world depression and probably will end up killing more people than they saved (through medical procedure delays, extra suicides and added starvation in third world countries).

And I am 100% against the government forcing people to get vaccines, social distance or to wear masks.

Finally - there is no reason WHATSOEVER for anyone who is healthy and under 50 to worry about dying from Covid-19 as the odds that they could are monumentally long.

I think vaccines and the like are effective - but ONLY if you are old/weak.
For everyone else?
They could help.
But are not necessary to 'save their lives'.

It's like giving a healthy, 30 year old a flu shot.
It might help him a bit...maybe.
But it's probably just overkill.

Seems like we agree on most details and, on the whole, just about completely.

I would like to see/hear one of the recognized expert proponents of universal vaccination define with specificity how much more immune is Johnathan Isaac than is a 70 year old retiree fan attending a Brooklyn game.

Beyond that, I would like to see/hear how much being vaccinated will enhance the immunity of Johnathan Isaac.

These bits of information are conveniently ignored by the propagandists who are misleading us.

The next question, then, is, "Why are they intentionally misleading us with propaganda?"

 

[Ethel2]

Kids are not immune.

That is a bad faced lie.

It’s consistent with his style of posting, a style that eschews science and common sense in favor of wishful thinking.

 

[Dayton3]

The objection seems to involve around tribalism rather than sound reasoning. Mark me down as a "yes" for vaccine mandates and vaccine "passports".

Here me out people:

States require children to get vaccinated for at least 8 different vaccines to attend a school.

Your family dog/cat has to get their rabies shots every 3 years or so.

Hospital and nursing home employees have to get 8 different vaccines in order to work.

Everybody was required to get the Small Pox and Polio vaccine or have to pay fines.

Why is it bad to add a 9th or a 10th vaccine to the list? Covid is killing and hospitalizing people everyday.

All of the vaccines required in the past are for diseases that are

1) Highly transmissible
and/or
2) Extremely dangerous.

Covid-19 is NOT extremely dangerous. Oh sure someone will not way "but 700,000 Americans have DIED from Covid-19!!!".

700,000 out of millions who have gotten the disease in a nation with a third of a BILLION people. Over the course of almost two years now.
Thus not overly dangerous.

And "highly transmissible"? Wear a mask or stay 6 feet away from other people. Thus not highly transmissible.

 

[Fledermaus]

All of the vaccines required in the past are for diseases that are

1) Highly transmissible
and/or
2) Extremely dangerous.

Covid-19 is NOT extremely dangerous. Oh sure someone will not way "but 700,000 Americans have DIED from Covid-19!!!".

700,000 out of millions who have gotten the disease in a nation with a third of a BILLION people. Over the course of almost two years now.
Thus not overly dangerous.

And "highly transmissible"? Wear a mask or stay 6 feet away from other people. Thus not highly transmissible.

737,000+ deaths = Not extremely dangerous

What a stupid, stupid thing to say.

 

[Dayton3]

737,000+ deaths = Not extremely dangerous

What a stupid, stupid thing to say.

Out of how many MILLIONS who have come down with the disease???

Don't be ashamed. Most people aren't good at statistics.

And most people have no concept in their minds about how large the United States is.

 

[Fledermaus]

Out of how many MILLIONS who have come down with the disease???

Don't be ashamed. Most people aren't good at statistics.

And most people have no concept in their minds about how large the United States is.

737,000+ excess deaths and climbing.....

 

[Dayton3]

737,000+ excess deaths and climbing.....

You keep trotting out that number as though it is significant.

It isn't.

 

[Fledermaus]

You keep trotting out that number as though it is significant.

It isn't.

3/4 of a million dead is insignificant....

That says a lot about you.

 

[snakestretcher]

That they are a means of reducing transmission is common sense.

That they are an effective means and that they reduce viral infections, I'd need to see some science on.

Real science.

How about something anecdotal yet relevant? Let's examine some Southeast Asian nations and the reasons why they achieved such notable successes in challenging the virus. You will note that those nations where mask wearing and a degree of social distancing (little hugging, public kissing or hand-shaking etc.), are culturally habitual, showed the lowest instances of infection and death...

What’s the secret to Southeast Asia’s Covid success stories?

There is no secret.

www.lowyinstitute.org

How Southeast Asia’s poorest nations successfully suppressed Covid-19

Region has reported low infection and death rates following speedy responses to pandemic

www.theweek.co.uk

How these 3 Asian countries have kept a lid on COVID-19 outbreaks

Vietnam, Mongolia and Taiwan have successfully clamped down on COVID-19 outbreaks and kept deaths low—though a new outbreak in Thailand shows how quickly things can change.

fortune.com

 

[SMTA]

Well some of us don’t think the Federal government has the legal authority to mandate vaccines in certain circumstances and insuring that the government only does things it’s legally allowed to actually matters.

Then you damn well better be complaining about MMR, DTAP, Meningitis, Hepatitis, and Chickenpox vaccination requirements for all children to attend public or private grade schools.
But you won't.

 

[SMTA]

How about something anecdotal yet relevant? Let's examine some Southeast Asian nations and the reasons why they achieved such notable successes in challenging the virus. You will note that those nations where mask wearing and a degree of social distancing (little hugging, public kissing or hand-shaking etc.), are culturally habitual, showed the lowest instances of infection and death...

What’s the secret to Southeast Asia’s Covid success stories?

There is no secret.

www.lowyinstitute.org

How Southeast Asia’s poorest nations successfully suppressed Covid-19

Region has reported low infection and death rates following speedy responses to pandemic

www.theweek.co.uk

How these 3 Asian countries have kept a lid on COVID-19 outbreaks

Vietnam, Mongolia and Taiwan have successfully clamped down on COVID-19 outbreaks and kept deaths low—though a new outbreak in Thailand shows how quickly things can change.

fortune.com

What? Actual Facts? Truth? Honesty?
How dare you.