Why I don't "understand" complaints about vaccine mandates

[Fledermaus]

With recent data from across the pond, justification (if there ever was one) for vaccine passports has been rendered moot

According to whom?

 

[VySky]

According to whom?

Where is the logic for vaccine passports when the overwhelming number of cases in Ireland (93% vaccinated) are among the vaccinated? Wouldn't testing at the entrance of establishments be more accurate lol?

 

[Fledermaus]

Where is the logic for vaccine passports when the overwhelming number of cases in Ireland (93% vaccinated) are among the vaccinated? Wouldn't testing at the entrance of establishments be more accurate lol?

According to whom are vaccine passports moot?

You?

And CASES =/= DEATHS

 

[Paradoxical]

What 'freedom'?

I forgot that you don’t care much for freedom

 

[Fledermaus]

I forgot that you don’t care much for freedom

Freedom to infect?

No.

Freedom to fill emergency rooms because one is too stupid to get vaccinated?

No.

 

[VySky]

According to whom are vaccine passports moot?

You?

And CASES =/= DEATHS

What are the Government acceptable numbers for those CASES=/=DEATHS? They are working towards a specific goal, I just don't know what it is. Do you by chance?

 

[jaeger19]

That is completely irrelevant and my guess is about once a day or more, but I don't really care nor would I rely on a self reported questoionnaire.

Are you REALLY serious with this, jaeger? Some guy with initials behind his name sends out a questionnaire and that is called "science" because he has initials? A frigging moron like AOC could send out a form with leading questions and pontificate that the majority of people in the US are really socialists based on her "scientific" study.

Little wonder the public is continually duped if people such as you can just proclaim what science is.

Dude..
First.. you need to think about this before you write again.

How would you design a study on vaccine reactions/side effects?

How would you personally observe..
Headaches
Nausea
Fatigue
Numbness
Tingling
Sore arm
Sore throat
Dry mouth
Body/joint ache
etc?

Please explain in detail how you would observe these symptoms.. without using any self reporting from a person?
Explain in detail.

Of course the use of self reporting is used in science. You could not study vaccine or drug reactions without some form of self reporting.
Or do you claim that symptoms like headaches.. don;t happen.. or fatigue.. or tingling?
If you saw a research study that documented that a side effect of a medication was SEVERE headaches. Would you dismiss it because it relied on SELF REPORT.. and scream.. THATS NOT SCIENCE.!?!?
I would hope not.

No one here.. and certainly not me.. is saying that if anyone with "letters behind their name". designs a survey that that constitutes "science".. and should be immediately believed.

A good study.. will have methods that reduce the chance of bias.. it will account for extraneous variables as much as possible... it will have a control if possible. it will have enough N (enough subjects to be statistically powerful). It will use appropriate statistics. And it will be peer reviewed..
Which means that someone in the same fields or fields.. reviews the study and picks it apart for any flaws in the methods, or statistically analysis.

There is the irony. YOU REFUSE to read the actual studies. thats how you determine if something is good science.. or not. Not demand "but but there needs to be an excerpt".

Anyone that is presenting you information from a scientific view.. using actual science.. will link to the ACTUAL STUDY.. so you can evaluate the quality of science behind that study.

You understand the irony here right? The fact that you refuse to read the actual science presented to you.. but demand excerpts?

 

[Big Eye]

I guess then we should just take your word for it when even Sweden's medical community agrees the herd immunity experiment failed. If Sweden was "ahead of the game" I'm sure you'll be able to explain why its rates of death and infection were so much greater than immediate Scandinavian neighbours.

At the start of the pandemic the Swedes did not isolate their care homes…they’ve admitted this, however now they are doing very well without imposing the costs of lockdowns and mandates on their population.

 

[Big Eye]

You clearly don't understand that gain-of-function research is critical if we are to understand how viral variants work, and how we are thus able to develop new vaccines. Of course, in your conspiracy-addled brain, that amounts to something sinister and nefarious, no doubt fuelled in part by your favourite paragon of journalistic excellence, the Daily Fail-so utterly crap that there's an entire forum dedicated to exposing its lies, sensationalist hyperbole and outright fabrication. And you call others gullible

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source.colostate.edu

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You carry on trusting such research to the CCP old chum..me , I think it’s crazy that the NIH financed such stuff through a country which has been caught proposing to use coronavirus as bio weapons. …and here we are with the consequences of what you think was a good idea…**** me, some people really haven’t got a clue.

 

[Big Eye]

It is laughable how you get so much wrong yet believe yourself to be right.

Dunning Kruger in full bloom.

You have never said anything remotely interesting or enquiring through this entire thread…you just believe what the authorities and big pharma tell you….it’s truly pathetic to witness someone tell you that rags stop viruses , lockdowns stop infections ( rather than simply delay them slightly) and these vaccines stop infections when all around the world there is clear evidence that they don’t work. Pathetic, but funny to watch .

 

[jaeger19]

Another lie as I am pro-science and you are the one pretending public policies that some evidence suggests might even slightly slow the spread of SARS-CoV2 ought to be imposed on nearly everyone by government fiat.

Nope.. i just stated that lockdowns in some and perhaps many cases were not necessary. But we all know that you need to create an alternate reality so that you can feel better about being wrong all the time
You really are anti science. You have all sorts of bias against science and those that do it. Like claiming that the only "good studies".. are RCT's
And not even understanding why their are other research designs.

Wrong again, I claimed the ill conceived government policies including fear mongering based on misinformation caused harm. Masks mandates and lock down of schools caused harm and mandates requiring school age kids to get vaccinated are also likely to cause more harm than benefit.

What do you mean "You are wrong".. you just admitted that you said that Mask mandates caused harm. I asked you to provide evidence that mask wearing causes harm.. particularly for the time that people are wearing masks in public.
You just claimed again that school age kids to get vaccinated will cause more harm than benefit. AGain.. I ask you for the evidence of said harm caused by vaccines versus the benefit of them.
Cripes.. you really live in an alternate universe. You just proved me right.

You are the one defending all those government mandates because you claim you want to save lives when it appears to me your real goal is to make more money.

Not true. But we have been over this.

But at least you now admit many of the government mandates were bad public policy

No.. I stated that government lockdowns were not always good policy. In some if not many they were unnecessary and if there had been a mandate for masking.. and social distancing.. then the lockdowns would not have been necessary.

. Since this discussion is about vaccine mandates now that even OSHA seems reluctant to in effect force employers to fire employees like nurses and other hospital employees if they don't get vaccinated even if they already had COVID and recovered is bad public policy?

I think employers should have the right to decide for themselves whether they need to mandate vaccines in the work place. There are certain positions.. like direct patient care.. perhaps other positions in that are high risk for spread etc.. that need to be vaccine mandated. Or a testing protocol

And you also admit what I have said all along and that is that the flimsy face government mandates require Americans where public provide little or no benefit to the person being forced by the government to wear such masks.

Admit.. I have said that since day one.. Cripes man.. the only one claiming such was you.

So stop misrepresenting my arguments and stop pretending weak and inconclusive scientific evidence justify authoritarian government mandates.

Misrepresenting your arguments.!?!?!? Sweet baby jesus.. you just confirmed EVERYTHING I have said about your arguments.!!!

 

[Big Eye]

I'm not a scientist? I guess a career spent in a hospital cytopathology lab after extensive clinical training, dealing with, identifying and diagnosing viral precursors to cervical cancer must prove you correct.

It’s pretty worrying that you did that because on this subject you are clearly clueless.

 

[Paradoxical]

Dude..
First.. you need to think about this before you write again.

How would you design a study on vaccine reactions/side effects?

How would you personally observe..
Headaches
Nausea
Fatigue
Numbness
Tingling
Sore arm
Sore throat
Dry mouth
Body/joint ache
etc?

Please explain in detail how you would observe these symptoms.. without using any self reporting from a person?
Explain in detail.

Of course the use of self reporting is used in science. You could not study vaccine or drug reactions without some form of self reporting.
Or do you claim that symptoms like headaches.. don;t happen.. or fatigue.. or tingling?
If you saw a research study that documented that a side effect of a medication was SEVERE headaches. Would you dismiss it because it relied on SELF REPORT.. and scream.. THATS NOT SCIENCE.!?!?
I would hope not.

No one here.. and certainly not me.. is saying that if anyone with "letters behind their name". designs a survey that that constitutes "science".. and should be immediately believed.

A good study.. will have methods that reduce the chance of bias.. it will account for extraneous variables as much as possible... it will have a control if possible. it will have enough N (enough subjects to be statistically powerful). It will use appropriate statistics. And it will be peer reviewed..
Which means that someone in the same fields or fields.. reviews the study and picks it apart for any flaws in the methods, or statistically analysis.

There is the irony. YOU REFUSE to read the actual studies. thats how you determine if something is good science.. or not. Not demand "but but there needs to be an excerpt".

Anyone that is presenting you information from a scientific view.. using actual science.. will link to the ACTUAL STUDY.. so you can evaluate the quality of science behind that study.

You understand the irony here right? The fact that you refuse to read the actual science presented to you.. but demand excerpts?

I spent well over 15 minutes I recall reading your link. One of the reasons I no longer will read links without an excerpt or detailed explanation from the poster about the link. Now, you can huff and puff and try to bully me into silence all you want. But the piece was absolute garbage. it was a SURVEY! It wasn't anything close to science. At best, all it says is that people who CLAIMED to wear masks did not catch h Covid as much as those who CLAIMED they didn't wear masks. That's IT! that's ALL. I really don't give a rat's ass as to how someone cannot personally observe symptoms. Fact remains that this alleged doctor did NOT observe anything at all. He took the words of respondents. He didn't observe even one of them to see if they were lying, how they wore masks, what masks they wore, where they wore them, when they were around people who did and didn't wear masks, what locations they went to, how close to others they were, if the people they were near were infected or not, how old they were, and a whole host of other conditions that would play a part in people getting infected, such as population density and being in areas that had high infection rates.

Get back to me when you have some SCIENCE and not some high skool paper.

 

[Big Eye]

In a source I found reviewing data from the US CDC, the same was true.

Data included ALL covid infections and deaths from day one, but the study was conducted relatively early in the months after vaccinations had started.

It's OBVIOUS to even the layman that they were comparing aplles to oranges, but they did so.

Science doesn't work right when propagandists are conducting it.

Sadly, if it is issued by our government, the lying thieves have touched it and very likely ruined it.

They have clearly gone out of their way to boost Covid deaths and also twisted the timings related to infections and deaths to make the vaccines look better than they are. I guess the truth will come out this winter…no doubt they will blame influenza this time to try and cover their asses.

The worrying aspect of this is that we haven’t even started to see the possible long term consequences of these vaccines in terms of damage to our immune systems and clotting from spike proteins…again I guess time will tell.

 

[Big Eye]

According to whom are vaccine passports moot?

You?

And CASES =/= DEATHS

You really are clueless…the whole premise of vaccine passes was that they show you are not an infection risk to other people…the vaccines don’t stop infections to any useful level…wakey , wakey.

 

[Paradoxical]

They have clearly gone out of their way to boost Covid deaths and also twisted the timings related to infections and deaths to make the vaccines look better than they are. I guess the truth will come out this winter…no doubt they will blame influenza this time to try and cover their asses.

The worrying aspect of this is that we haven’t even started to see the possible long term consequences of these vaccines in terms of damage to our immune systems and clotting from spike proteins…again I guess time will tell.

A CNN director admitted that they inflated Covid numbers to instill fear because he said FEAR SELLS! Project Veritas, that great investigative group, uncovered this and it is video tape.

 

[Fledermaus]

You really are clueless…the whole premise of vaccine passes was that they show you are not an infection risk to other people…the vaccines don’t stop infections to any useful level…wakey , wakey.

And VACCINATED people are less of a danger than UNVACCINATED people.

It’s pretty worrying that you did that because on this subject you are clearly clueless.

They have clearly gone out of their way to boost Covid deaths and also twisted the timings related to infections and deaths to make the vaccines look better than they are. I guess the truth will come out this winter…no doubt they will blame influenza this time to try and cover their asses.

COVID deaths overall are under counted.

The worrying aspect of this is that we haven’t even started to see the possible long term consequences of these vaccines in terms of damage to our immune systems and clotting from spike proteins…again I guess time will tell.

What "long term consequences" ?

 

[Fledermaus]

You have never said anything remotely interesting or enquiring through this entire thread…you just believe what the authorities and big pharma tell you…

Just another rant by someone who gets their information from Twitter and Antivaxx websites.

.it’s truly pathetic to witness someone tell you that rags stop viruses ,

That is what SCIENCE shows. But you wouldn't know with those blinders you wear.

lockdowns stop infections ( rather than simply delay them slightly)

GIBRALTAR

and these vaccines stop infections when all around the world there is clear evidence that they don’t work. Pathetic, but funny to watch .

Vaccines are currently the best way of pev3enting death/serious illness.

 

[Fledermaus]

A CNN director admitted that they inflated Covid numbers to instill fear because he said FEAR SELLS! Project Veritas, that great investigative group, uncovered this and it is video tape.

A CNN director?

 

[snakestretcher]

It’s pretty worrying that you did that because on this subject you are clearly clueless.

Your ignorant opinion is noted.

 

[snakestretcher]

You carry on trusting such research to the CCP old chum..me , I think it’s crazy that the NIH financed such stuff through a country which has been caught proposing to use coronavirus as bio weapons. …and here we are with the consequences of what you think was a good idea…**** me, some people really haven’t got a clue.

Give it a rest mate; your absurdly conspiratorial posts are becoming embarrassing to read.

 

[snakestretcher]

I forgot that you don’t care much for freedom

I will repeat; what 'freedom'? Do you have any idea, or are you just posturing?

 

[Paradoxical]

I will repeat; what 'freedom'? Do you have any idea, or are you just posturing?

the freedom to not have to wear a germ-infested mask just because some local or state edict makes me, and the freedom to go where I want without a mask or vaccine.

Any other questions on what freedom is?

 

[snakestretcher]

the freedom to not have to wear a germ-infested mask just because some local or state edict makes me, and the freedom to go where I want without a mask or vaccine.

Any other questions on what freedom is?

So who is forcing you to wear a mask, the tooth fairy? If you behave like an entitled, petulant, foot-stamping child who won't eat his greens, that's how you'll be treated. There's a painless alternative; wear a mask, get vaccinated and join the adults.

 

[Paradoxical]

So who is forcing you to wear a mask, the tooth fairy? If you behave like an entitled, petulant, foot-stamping child who won't eat his greens, that's how you'll be treated. There's a painless alternative; wear a mask, get vaccinated and join the adults.

We are being forced to wear masks in Califonia. Don't you read anything?