Why hasn't Ukraine surrendered?

[iguanaman]

Well, depending on what day it is, the aid from the U.S. may or may not coming, but even if the U.S. suspends aid, other allies can fill the void -- for a time. But being realistic, the longer the US is ambivalent about supporting Ukraine and our interests in Europe, the harder it's going to be for Ukraine to hold out.

The Ukrainians are far from defeated and have not even used all their options to attack Russia yet. I agree that without US aid the war will be prolonged though. Perhaps that was what Trump meant by saying he could end it in 24 hours?

 

[iguanaman]

No, stopping western expansion. Ukraine was suppose to be a buffer between the west and east. But no. The EU and other western nations want to creep right on to Russia's door steps. The coup gave them the opportunity to stop what they envisioned as a threat.

LOL Putin's war so far has only succeeded in getting Finland to join NATO and they have a 1300 Km border with Russia. It appears that Putin does not care about that as long as he can have Ukraine and it's people and resources. Isn't that strange? Maybe NATO is not the "threat" he claims it is? Maybe Putin just wants Ukraine so he can conscript their men to fight his next war.

 

[multivita-man]

The Ukrainians are far from defeated and have not even used all their options to attack Russia yet. I agree that without US aid the war will be prolonged though. Perhaps that was what Trump meant by saying he could end it in 24 hours?

I'm not saying they're defeated (as in completely routed) or that they will be anytime soon, but war, particularly the kind that occurs on home soil, is grueling. It's taking a toll on the Ukrainian population. It's going to be hard to do anything other than fight a defensive war in the areas not controlled by Russian or Russo-allied forces. I don't think the Ukrainian militia will ever completely collapse, and I think Putin knows this, which makes me think they don't want to get stuck in an occupation.

 

[iguanaman]

I'm not saying they're defeated (as in completely routed) or that they will be anytime soon, but war, particularly the kind that occurs on home soil, is grueling. It's taking a toll on the Ukrainian population. It's going to be hard to do anything other than fight a defensive war in the areas not controlled by Russian or Russo-allied forces. I don't think the Ukrainian militia will ever completely collapse, and I think Putin knows this, which makes me think they don't want to get stuck in an occupation.

I believe Ukraine will do everything in their power to bring down Putin's Govt. in Russia and that includes attacking their cities with their drones. That may include dirty bombs if they are desperate enough. They are facing genocide and they have no illusions about that.

 

[Roadvirus]

Ukraine was suppose to be a buffer between the west and east

According to who?

Russia has no right to tell Ukraine what world groups it can or cannot join & what their "status" as a nation is. Ukraine is an independent nation and can do whatever it damn well pleases so long as it complies with international law (something that is foreign to Russia).

 

[Cosmo]

You are getting closer to the truth.

And maybe giving Danzig to Germany would have prevented WWII in September 1939, but why even bring it up?

 

[Cosmo]

According to who?

Russia has no right to tell Ukraine what world groups it can or cannot join & what their "status" as a nation is. Ukraine is an independent nation and can do whatever it damn well pleases so long as it complies with international law (something that is foreign to Russia).

Ukraine also never joined NATO, so the whole thing is moot even if he can prove Ukraine promised to be neutral forever. It's like putting someone in prison for auto theft because he looked up the fair market value of a car which he could then have stolen.

 

[Cosmo]

Says the foreign invaders progeny who lives in North America where there were already people living there for thousands of years.

So when will Moscow give up all the lands it acquired since the medieval times?

 

[Hamish Howl]

This whole situation is rooted deeper than 2014. The coup in 2014 was the trigger.

Or should I say the straw that broke the camels back.

So, that is a "yes". You support Vladimir Putin and his invasion.

 

[justoneman]

If they wanted to leave Russia, why couldn't they just move out? Russia is one of the largest countries in the world, and also a sparsely populated one.

Why do you keep saying that? Nobody said that. They need to live their Russian Ukrainian lives in their home.

 

[justoneman]

There are over 60,000 ethnic Russians in Brighton Beach - aka "Little Odessa" - many already dating back generations. Is that enough of a concentration for Putin to invade Brooklyn NY?

Brighton Beach, or Where to Find Russian Food in New York. Part 1 | That’s What She Had

There's not better place in New York to try Russian cuisine than Little Russia, or as it's officially called Brighton Beach!

thatswhatshehad.com

And the US is not requiring them to print magazines in Ukrainian, or English or any other language they do not choose to.

 

[Cosmo]

Why do you keep saying that? Nobody said that. They need to live their Russian Ukrainian lives in their home.

How does flattening their cities accomplish that?

 

[justoneman]

How does flattening their cities accomplish that?
View attachment 67560569

It's a terrible war and kills people on both sides and destroys their buildings.

 

[Cosmo]

It's a terrible war and kills people on both sides and destroys their buildings.

And this terrible war has an obvious responsible party: Russia.

And the US is not requiring them to print magazines in Ukrainian, or English or any other language they do not choose to.

You do realize that Russia itself has language enforcement, right?

Putin signs law on Russian language and use of foreign words

Before, it was also against the law to use words and phrases that didnât conform with the norms of the contemporary literary Russian language, including obscenities

tass.com

Is it just Ukraine that needs to be invaded, raped, plundered, and murdered because they have an official state language (that isn't Russian)?

 

[justoneman]

And this terrible war has an obvious responsible party: Russia.


You do realize that Russia itself has language enforcement, right?

Putin signs law on Russian language and use of foreign words

Before, it was also against the law to use words and phrases that didnât conform with the norms of the contemporary literary Russian language, including obscenities

tass.com

View attachment 67560571

Is it just Ukraine that needs to be invaded, raped, plundered, and murdered because they have an official state language (that isn't Russian)?

Yes you established that many times. What do you want to do about it?

 

[Cosmo]

Yes you established that many times. What do you want to do about it?

While it wasn't perfect, I was content with the Biden approach of supplying a few weapons here and there to keep the war going for a decade or two. I think Russia has a decent chance of learning their lesson, but they need a decade or two, as well as a few million in destroyed Russian population, to do so. I don't want to deprive them of the educational opportunity.

 

[justoneman]

While it wasn't perfect, I was content with the Biden approach of supplying a few weapons here and there to keep the war going for a decade or two. I think Russia has a decent chance of learning their lesson, but they need a decade or two, as well as a few million in destroyed Russian population, to do so. I don't want to deprive them of the educational opportunity.

A few weapons here and there? You mean a hundred billion in weapons ans supply enough money to pay everybody's income and run the government? That and tens of thousands of dead soldiers? This sounds like a good idea to you?

 

[Lord of Planar]

While it wasn't perfect, I was content with the Biden approach of supplying a few weapons here and there to keep the war going for a decade or two.

Supply them with weapons was a retarded move on Biden's part. US assets attacking Putin, gives him every right to attack us.

I think Russia has a decent chance of learning their lesson, but they need a decade or two, as well as a few million in destroyed Russian population, to do so. I don't want to deprive them of the educational opportunity.

What war college collage and battle experience do you have to think you know better than he does?

 

[Juin]

It was never Russia's goal to take and harm the whole country. Only protect the ethnic Russians from the criminal government. They could easily do so if that was their goal.

The view of the west appears to be ethnic Russians who have been in Donbass and Crimea as far back as Tsarist Russia dont belong there and have no rights! Their Churches can be banned; their monasteries seized; their priests arrested; their politicians arrested; their media shut down

 

[Juin]

What a load of tripe.
If putin had the ability to overcome Ukraine, he'd definitely of completely swarmed them already.
Even if putins forces do ever occupy Ukraine, I think the underground resistance putins troops would encounter would be endless.

The Kyiv regime has also been trying to crush resistance in the Donbass going back to 2014. After major combats are over both sides may have to deal with resistance in the areas they occupy. Keep in mind there are Russians west of the Dnieper as welll

 

[Juin]

Where are those "ethnic Russians" now?

There are ethnic Russians all over Ukraine just as there are ethnic Ukrainians all over Ukraine. There are ethnic Ukrainians in Russia as well

 

[Juin]

Why didn't they move there in the first place if they didn't want to be part of Ukraine?

They move along with the land

 

[Juin]

So they went back to where they came from. What’s wrong with that?

Ethnic Russians in Ukraine have been there as far back as Tsarist Russia

 

[Juin]

That's a lie. It was always Putin's goal to completely overrun Ukraine, and that certainly hasn't changed. It's why he started bombing Kiev right from the start. And Ukraine was just the first stop to taking back Eastern Europe, all the way to the Baltic states, for a land link to Kaliningrad.

wow

Total bullshit propaganda. No ethnic Russian were being held against their will in Ukraine.

President Victor Poroshenko launched a military campaign to suppress Donbass. It was in the news back in 2014.

If Putin was concerned about them, they could have much more easily moved right across the border into Russia, rather than become victims of his imperialist war.

They leave Ukraine along with their lands

Instead, their cities and towns in Luhansk and Donetsk have now been leveled, their homes and infrastructure destroyed, and hundreds of square kilometers in the region are now saturated with Russian land mines. That's how Putin "protects" his ethnic Russians.

In that case Zelensky has no reason to want those lands back

Have you seen pictures of Caen, Normandy after it was liberated? That is what it took to liberate France.

 

[Juin]

Putin: we are going to help you by destroying your homes.

[sigh]

How was Caen liberated by the Allies???