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Why has Jail4Judges not been passed yet?

Ensuring that the defendant's right to a speedy trial is protected, is the responsibility of the defense attorney. If a trial is not occurring in a speedy manner, the defense attorney can file motions demanding one, and can even file interlocutory appeals if necessary. Making judges liable doesn't help.

What you seem to be overlooking is that, in order for that judge to be held liable in the first place, a higher court would already have had to have determined your relative's incarceration to have been wrongful. So holding the judge liable doesn't actually help your relative, it just creates a climate of fear for the judge.

We may be misunderstanding each other.

In this particular situation the state deems a speedy trial to be within 1 year. You can address the court as much as you would like but if it has not reached the 1 year limit then you are powerless.


My point is there should be an avenue to sue Judges that, as in this case, issue a warrant for an arrest and set a bond without adequate evidence to attempt a prosecution. You should not be able to ruin someones life for long periods of time unless you have the evidence to justify it. I am not talking a criminal case in which you would need to show intent I am talking about holding them liable in cases of incompetence.
 
I think it's cute how you confuse paper law with reality. ;)

Seriously, though, that's not what I'm advocating, and trying to portray it in an extreme scenario like that doesn't further the conversation. Most of the reform needs to be in regards to prosecutors (and police /detectives), not so much judges. They're the ones who are more often shifty in their behavior.

Damn it's been a long time since anyone used the word in a sentence to me :p


I agree with you 100%. Prosecutors and police need to be held more accountable than they are when they bend or break the rules.
Judges are different though - not least because federal ones are dealt with Constitutionally.
 
We may be misunderstanding each other.

In this particular situation the state deems a speedy trial to be within 1 year. You can address the court as much as you would like but if it has not reached the 1 year limit then you are powerless.


My point is there should be an avenue to sue Judges that, as in this case, issue a warrant for an arrest and set a bond without adequate evidence to attempt a prosecution. You should not be able to ruin someones life for long periods of time unless you have the evidence to justify it. I am not talking a criminal case in which you would need to show intent I am talking about holding them liable in cases of incompetence.

Ok, so the issue isn't with the speedy trial issue, but the sufficiency of evidence.

If it were possible to sue judges for accepting charges made with insufficient evidence, you would take such a lawsuit before a higher court, no?
 
Also, I'd note that it is already punishable for a judge to actually be corrupt in the strict sense, of taking bribes.
Yeah? So what! That only matters if the prosecutor decides to charge the judges ... which they almost never do!

Judges can be impeached. That's the remedy for dealing with Article III judges who abuse their authority.
That only happens if Congress - who benefits from judicial corruption - chooses to impeach. There's no way to force an impeachment, no matter how "proper" it is. If Congress is conhoots with the judicial corruption, then there is no justice.

Suing a judge because you don't like their decision is a recipe for disaster. Do we really want judges ruling based on what decision will anger the least amount of people? That's not rule of law. That's mob rule.
Who said anything about subjecting judges to suit just for unpopular decisions? I'm talking about when the judge directly breaks the law, knowing full well that he's breaking the law, and just not caring because he doesn't like the citizen, or because he took a bribe.

A horrible idea. It would essentially abrogate the separation of powers and leave the judiciary subject to the whim of the executive branches.
Where's your evidence?

What alleged problem are we trying to fix with this bit of idiocy?

These ...
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/1987/11/cj7n2-13.pdf
Lawyers Who Criticize Judges Are Being Punished — Jonathan Turley
Should lawyers be disciplined for criticism of judges? | a public defender
Fraudclosure Fighters Under Attack | Matt Weidner & Chip Parker Investigated by FL Bar for Criticizing System | Foreclosure Fraud - Fighting Foreclosure Fraud by Sharing the Knowledge
Judicial Criticism Will Lead to Bar Discipline Absent ?Objectively Reasonable? Factual Basis | Bloomberg BNA
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910219&slug=1267009
http://jonathanturley.org/2007/12/1...e-judge-stands-trial-for-judicial-misconduct/
http://www.businessinsider.com/sunny-shue-killed-queens-foreclosure-judge-joseph-golia-2011-6
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/18/judge-bias-corrupts-court-cases
 
Yeah? So what! That only matters if the prosecutor decides to charge the judges ... which they almost never do!

Could you cite any cases where a judge was caught taking bribes and wasn't prosecuted?

If that's true, that prosecutors won't charge them, then it doesn't matter if they have formal immunity or not.
 
Yeah? So what! That only matters if the prosecutor decides to charge the judges ... which they almost never do!


That only happens if Congress - who benefits from judicial corruption - chooses to impeach. There's no way to force an impeachment, no matter how "proper" it is. If Congress is conhoots with the judicial corruption, then there is no justice.


Who said anything about subjecting judges to suit just for unpopular decisions? I'm talking about when the judge directly breaks the law, knowing full well that he's breaking the law, and just not caring because he doesn't like the citizen, or because he took a bribe.


Where's your evidence?



These ...
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/1987/11/cj7n2-13.pdf
Lawyers Who Criticize Judges Are Being Punished — Jonathan Turley
Should lawyers be disciplined for criticism of judges? | a public defender
Fraudclosure Fighters Under Attack | Matt Weidner & Chip Parker Investigated by FL Bar for Criticizing System | Foreclosure Fraud - Fighting Foreclosure Fraud by Sharing the Knowledge
Judicial Criticism Will Lead to Bar Discipline Absent ?Objectively Reasonable? Factual Basis | Bloomberg BNA
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19910219&slug=1267009
http://jonathanturley.org/2007/12/1...e-judge-stands-trial-for-judicial-misconduct/
http://www.businessinsider.com/sunny-shue-killed-queens-foreclosure-judge-joseph-golia-2011-6
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/18/judge-bias-corrupts-court-cases



Judges, like many other government officials, are given qualified immunity (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity) against civil suits for acts committed while performing their duties. There is no immunity against criminal charges. Bribery is a felony so judges have no immunity against it, nor do they against murder (or contracting murder) as I assume you're getting at in the story of the guy who was murdered in Queens. There are without doubt enforcement issues but to say they immunity have immunity against criminal charges is simply wrong.

Article III judges are subject to impeachment, elected local judges are subject to being thrown out of office during the next election cycle, appointed local judges can be unappointed. Most state judiciaries have oversight bodies. What are you proposing in addition to that?
 
Judges, like many other government officials, are given qualified immunity (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/qualified_immunity) against civil suits for acts committed while performing their duties.
No ... they have ABSOLUTE immunity! Even acts of pure malice and corruption are immune from suit.

There is no immunity against criminal charges.
Again, that only matters if the prosecutors choose to charge them.

Bribery is a felony so judges have no immunity against it
Oh yes they do! They have absolute immunity!

nor do they against murder (or contracting murder) as I assume you're getting at in the story of the guy who was murdered in Queens.

Again ... absolute immunity. Yes, they are indeed immune.

There are without doubt enforcement issues
but to say they immunity have immunity against criminal charges is simply wrong.
I never said they have immunity against criminal charges.

Article III judges are subject to impeachment, elected local judges are subject to being thrown out of office during the next election cycle,
Just like with criminal prosecution, they're never impeached.

Voters can only vote local judges out of office if they know about the corruption, and since attorneys are intimidated into not speaking out against them, nobody ever knows about the corruption.

appointed local judges can be unappointed.
By whom? The governor? If that's the case, I defer you to my aforementioned complaint about Congress impeaching.

Most state judiciaries have oversight bodies.
Who A) have no authority to investigate allegations of misconduct that directly relate to the merits of the case ... meaning the evidence most complainants have to support their complaints are inadmissible, and B) even if they have the authority to investigate, there's nothing stopping them from simply tossing out the complaints because they're in cahoots with the corruption.

What are you proposing in addition to that?
Have you seen everything else I've posted about the inefficiency of the government system?
 
Could you cite any cases where a judge was caught taking bribes and wasn't prosecuted?
Would you accept any case where a judge blatantly broke the law? Or do you want specifically bribery?

If that's true, that prosecutors won't charge them, then it doesn't matter if they have formal immunity or not.

What do you mean? If a prosecutor refuses to charge the judge, how can allowing a private citizena private cause of action possibly be futile?
 
Could you cite any cases where a judge was caught taking bribes and wasn't prosecuted?

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cD80eqDwnD8J:www.jail4judges.org

you want this office to go after judges. We cannot do that. We are counsel for the judges here in California and we have a conflict of interest. When we bring action on behalf of the State in the courts, we want the judges on our side. We cannot be going after judges.

...

Is this not an admission that in reality there exists no forum in which to hold judges accountable?
 
Would you accept any case where a judge blatantly broke the law? Or do you want specifically bribery?

I would prefer bribery, since that's what you specifically referred to.

What do you mean? If a prosecutor refuses to charge the judge, how can allowing a private citizena private cause of action possibly be futile?

If the entire judiciary is corrupt, they'll just dismiss the suit.

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cD80eqDwnD8J:www.jail4judges.org

The ramblings of some person on the internet about some unspecified crime and an alleged off-record comment by some unspecified deputy AG don't really mean much.
 
The issue in the Netherlands is a bit different, any judge who commits a crime can be prosecuted by a court of law. Any judge who perjures himself or who commits a judicial crime, can be prosecuted without there being any impunity or immunity because that does not exist.

But no person can be damaged by a corrupt judge because in any serious crime there is a panel of judges, you can impeach a judge during the case (if you suspect him of bias against you or in favor of the prosecution) and then another court of three judges will review your request before the case continues, but even if you are the victim of a corrupt judge and the impeachment of him was unsuccessful, than you can just go to a higher court where a new panel of judges will redo the case.

In this appeal you can appeal 2 things, you can appeal the entire case because you disagree with the guilty verdict and then the higher court will retry the entire case from beginning to end but you can also appeal the punishment and not the guilty verdict because you are of the opinion the judges gave you a much higher sentence than the crime warranted.
 
No ... they have ABSOLUTE immunity! Even acts of pure malice and corruption are immune from suit.


Again, that only matters if the prosecutors choose to charge them.


Oh yes they do! They have absolute immunity!



Again ... absolute immunity. Yes, they are indeed immune.

There are without doubt enforcement issues
I never said they have immunity against criminal charges.


Just like with criminal prosecution, they're never impeached.

Voters can only vote local judges out of office if they know about the corruption, and since attorneys are intimidated into not speaking out against them, nobody ever knows about the corruption.


By whom? The governor? If that's the case, I defer you to my aforementioned complaint about Congress impeaching.


Who A) have no authority to investigate allegations of misconduct that directly relate to the merits of the case ... meaning the evidence most complainants have to support their complaints are inadmissible, and B) even if they have the authority to investigate, there's nothing stopping them from simply tossing out the complaints because they're in cahoots with the corruption.


Have you seen everything else I've posted about the inefficiency of the government system?

No government official - cops, judges, prosecutors, congressman, even presidents have absolute immunity. That is demonstrably false.

All have been convicted of crimes while on the job and imprisoned. You simply do not know have a clue as to what you are talking about.
 
I would prefer bribery, since that's what you specifically referred to.
When did I do that?

If the entire judiciary is corrupt, they'll just dismiss the suit.
I never said jail4judges is perfect. But it's certainly a step in the right direction. It would be a powerful statement, if anything else, where the people finally stand up and say we're not going to take it anymore.

The ramblings of some person on the internet about some unspecified crime and an alleged off-record comment by some unspecified deputy AG don't really mean much.
Do you have any evidence of your own to contradict his testimony? Evidence that judges will consistently be charged when caught?
 
No government official - cops, judges, prosecutors, congressman, even presidents have absolute immunity. That is demonstrably false.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=5398729034454258640
The absolute immunity from suit for alleged deprivation of rights enjoyed by judges is matchless in its protection of judicial power. It shields judges even against allegations of malice or corruption.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2488815873448369375
if a judge of a criminal court should convict a defendant of a nonexistent crime, he would merely be acting in excess of his jurisdiction and would be immune.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17180615674497290190
On the night of October 16, 1975, defendant Vanderwater, then an Illinois judge, arrested plaintiff Flor Lopez, caused him to be charged with petty theft, convicted him on the basis of a guilty plea that is alleged to have been forged, and sentenced him to jail for 240 days.

...

Gamble also signed a blank complaint form. On the blank complaint form, Vanderwater certified in writing that Gamble had sworn to the truth of the allegations of the complaint.

...

On a standard plea form, Vanderwater made entries indicating a guilty plea and a waiver of trial by jury. The form, thus modified, bears an illegible signature which Lopez says is not his.

...

While Lopez, according to his testimony, remained in his jail cell, he was, in absentia, arraigned, convicted, and sentenced by Vanderwater in the booking area of the police station. Vanderwater wrote on the bottom of the guilty plea form that Lopez had pleaded guilty, had been found guilty, and had been sentenced to Vandalia for 240 days.

...

The doctrine of absolute judicial immunity, as it applies to suits under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, will protect a judge against liability for a given act if two conditions are satisfied. First, the act must not have been taken in the "clear absence of all jurisdiction." ... Protection may be afforded even if the act was prompted by malicious or corrupt reasons, "flawed by the commission of grave procedural errors," or taken in excess, but not in clear absence, of jurisdiction ... Second, the act must be a "judicial act."

...

Plaintiff's counsel also argues, as we understand him, that the totality of the circumstances in this case are enough to have deprived Vanderwater of all jurisdiction. Among these circumstances are the facts that Vanderwater had an interest in the case, that he had prejudged the case, and that he proceeded to judgment despite his knowledge of fundamental constitutional infirmities in the procedure that was followed. Even "grave procedural errors," however, are not enough, under Sparkman, to deprive a judge of all jurisdiction. Malice and corruption are similarly insufficient. Therefore, Vanderwater's acts in arraigning, convicting, and sentencing Lopez, outrageous as they were, were not, under Sparkman, taken in the clear absence of all jurisdiction.

...

The district court was also correct in concluding that these acts were "judicial acts." They satisfy the Sparkman criterion of functions "normally performed by a judge." The second criterion, whether the parties "dealt with the judge in his judicial capacity," seems inapplicable here. Vanderwater himself was, in substance if not in form, the complainant; Lopez, the only party other than the state, was, if we are to believe his deposition testimony, unaware of the entire course of the proceedings and thus unable to deal with Vanderwater in his judicial role or otherwise during the proceedings.

...

Accordingly, Vanderwater is absolutely immune from suit under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 for his acts of arraigning, convicting, and sentencing Lopez.

Shall I continue to offer more and more case laws?
 
Do you have any evidence of your own to contradict his testimony? Evidence that judges will consistently be charged when caught?

His testimony isn't. He never alleges what "crime" took place.
 
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His testimony isn't. He never alleges what "crime" took place.

He points out that the prosecutors stated that they "can't" go after judges, since they have a conflict of interest. It doesn't matter what crimes the judges allegedly committed.

No because once again that is CIVIL immunity. Judges are not immune to criminal liability
Again, so what? The prosecutors never charge the judges, so being subject to criminal liability is not enough.
 
He points out that the prosecutors stated that they "can't" go after judges, since they have a conflict of interest. It doesn't matter what crimes the judges allegedly committed.

What "crime" the judge committed is entirely relevant, because it's entirely possible that this guy is off his rocker and that the "crime" isn't actually illegal. And again, the fact that someone on the Internet claims that someone said something, doesn't mean they actually did.
 
He points out that the prosecutors stated that they "can't" go after judges, since they have a conflict of interest. It doesn't matter what crimes the judges allegedly committed.


Again, so what? The prosecutors never charge the judges, so being subject to criminal liability is not enough.

It will never happen for the simple reason that it would cause many more problems than it would fix. How do you expect a judge to do his job if he fears being sued by every person who loses a case in front of him?

And if you are so skeptical of prosecutors and police what makes you think that other judges are going to make it easy for you to win a civil case against another judge?
 
It will never happen for the simple reason that it would cause many more problems than it would fix. How do you expect a judge to do his job if he fears being sued by every person who loses a case in front of him?
The same police, prison wardens, and schoolteachers are to do THEIR jobs, even though they are subject to suit.

After a while, the feeling of harassment that comes with being sued just ... goes away. After a while, if you continuously win your cases, you're going to, essentially get "used to it." As any prison warden will tell you, being in court defending against lawsuits is just ... part of the job. They've gotten to the point where it doesn't phase them anymore unless they lose the case.

If judges know that their verdicts were legitimate and not corrupt, simply being sued (without an accompanying judgment) is not going to bother them after the first two or three times.

Just like how you're not bothered when co-workers file unwarranted complaints with your boss; you know you're innocent, and after a while, you know the boss will side with you, so you stop caring about the mere filing of complaints.

And if you are so skeptical of prosecutors and police what makes you think that other judges are going to make it easy for you to win a civil case against another judge?
I've already answered that question.
 
And if you are so skeptical of prosecutors and police what makes you think that other judges are going to make it easy for you to win a civil case against another judge?

I've already answered this question, but I'll extend my argument:

The Jail4Judges Amendment actually covers that issue.

The J4J creates a grand jury, consisting of citizens who are chosen randomly and requiring no special qualifications (such as ... license to practice law) beyond simply being registered to vote in that jurisdiction. These people would only serve for a single year before the RNG assigns new grand jurors, and unlike the prosecutors (who represent and counsel judges), these guys are removed from conflicts of interest.

They have no authority to directly enforce their decisions, but if the police don't enforce the decisions, then common citizens are allowed to step in and evict the judge from his chambers; a very rare occurrence where vigilantism is expressly legally allowed.

So, if the judge in the judicial malpractice case decides to issue summary judgment in his buddy's favor and dismiss the case with prejudice, without just cause, the conflict-less grand jury would step in and oust both judges from the bench and order them thrown in prison. If the police don't arrest them, the citizens get to blow the judges' brains out.

Now, wouldn't this cause a ton of intimidation? Wouldn't judges be fearful of taking any action, and slow down the judicial process while they painstakingly research law on even the tiniest of issues? No. It won't. Again, J4J has you covered.

First, you have to exhaust all administrative remedies BEFORE you go to the grand jury. The grand jury is a very last resort.
Second, the judge still has qualified immunity; meaning that, like cops, he is still immune from suit for actions taken in good faith, when there is no evidence of corruption. Look at the text of the legislation:

Immunity. No immunity shall extend to any judge of this State for any deliberate violation of law, fraud or conspiracy, intentional violation of due process of law, deliberate disregard of material facts, judicial acts without jurisdiction, blocking of a lawful conclusion of a case, or any deliberate violation of the Constitutions of [this State] or the United States, notwithstanding Common Law, or any other contrary statute.

Next concern, please!
 
I've already answered this question, but I'll extend my argument:

The Jail4Judges Amendment actually covers that issue.

The J4J creates a grand jury, consisting of citizens who are chosen randomly and requiring no special qualifications (such as ... license to practice law) beyond simply being registered to vote in that jurisdiction. These people would only serve for a single year before the RNG assigns new grand jurors, and unlike the prosecutors (who represent and counsel judges), these guys are removed from conflicts of interest.

They have no authority to directly enforce their decisions, but if the police don't enforce the decisions, then common citizens are allowed to step in and evict the judge from his chambers; a very rare occurrence where vigilantism is expressly legally allowed.

So, if the judge in the judicial malpractice case decides to issue summary judgment in his buddy's favor and dismiss the case with prejudice, without just cause, the conflict-less grand jury would step in and oust both judges from the bench and order them thrown in prison. If the police don't arrest them, the citizens get to blow the judges' brains out.

Now, wouldn't this cause a ton of intimidation? Wouldn't judges be fearful of taking any action, and slow down the judicial process while they painstakingly research law on even the tiniest of issues? No. It won't. Again, J4J has you covered.

First, you have to exhaust all administrative remedies BEFORE you go to the grand jury. The grand jury is a very last resort.
Second, the judge still has qualified immunity; meaning that, like cops, he is still immune from suit for actions taken in good faith, when there is no evidence of corruption. Look at the text of the legislation:



Next concern, please!

Would the grand jury have absolute immunity?
 
I've already answered this question, but I'll extend my argument:

The Jail4Judges Amendment actually covers that issue.

The J4J creates a grand jury, consisting of citizens who are chosen randomly and requiring no special qualifications (such as ... license to practice law) beyond simply being registered to vote in that jurisdiction. These people would only serve for a single year before the RNG assigns new grand jurors, and unlike the prosecutors (who represent and counsel judges), these guys are removed from conflicts of interest.

They have no authority to directly enforce their decisions, but if the police don't enforce the decisions, then common citizens are allowed to step in and evict the judge from his chambers; a very rare occurrence where vigilantism is expressly legally allowed.

So, if the judge in the judicial malpractice case decides to issue summary judgment in his buddy's favor and dismiss the case with prejudice, without just cause, the conflict-less grand jury would step in and oust both judges from the bench and order them thrown in prison. If the police don't arrest them, the citizens get to blow the judges' brains out.

Now, wouldn't this cause a ton of intimidation? Wouldn't judges be fearful of taking any action, and slow down the judicial process while they painstakingly research law on even the tiniest of issues? No. It won't. Again, J4J has you covered.

First, you have to exhaust all administrative remedies BEFORE you go to the grand jury. The grand jury is a very last resort.
Second, the judge still has qualified immunity; meaning that, like cops, he is still immune from suit for actions taken in good faith, when there is no evidence of corruption. Look at the text of the legislation:



Next concern, please!

There are lots of a problems with what you've written. I'll start with two of the painfully obvious ones.

1. A bunch of people who have zero legal training are going to second guess judges and others who went to school for 6+ years to learn their craft? Do I understand that correctly? They're going to making findings of law without any real understanding of what the law is? You have got to be kidding.

And further these same amateurs get to throw judges in jail with no due process? This is beyond stupidity
 
Would the grand jury have absolute immunity?

To the extent that they are bringing cases against judges, yes.

Unlike police, judges, or politicians, however, this absolute immunity will not clothe them with the ability to ruin people's lives. They have no authority to do anything to anyone who isn't a judge. If a private citizen millionaire bribes a judge, the grand jury can bring criminal charges against the judge for agreeing to receive the bribe, but they can do fukall to the millionaire who offered the bribe.

The only people who would be at risk against the grand jury would be the people who freely and voluntarily signed up for the risk.

1. A bunch of people who have zero legal training are going to second guess judges and others who went to school for 6+ years to learn their craft? Do I understand that correctly? They're going to making findings of law without any real understanding of what the law is? You have got to be kidding.
If the law is too complicated for untrained people to understand, how come we, as citizens, are expected to magically know the law and follow it? Ignorance of the law is no excuse, after all, but if the government believes the law is too complicated for people to understand without a college education, don't you think that's a wee bit hypocritical of them?

The law is not something that requires a college degree, despite common misconception. On paper, yes, you need a license to practice law. But then again, in Mississippi, you need a license to open a floral shop!

Untrained civilians are capable of looking at the legal arguments presented by parties, reading the case law cited by them, and can tell when judges have blatantly ignored a precedent that is plainly in the losing party's favor. Anyone can do that.

Judges are not required to consider any legal issues not presented by counsel. In fact, that is one of the things that judges wouldn't be immune for under J4J; because that constitutes investigating the matter independently, which is not allowed under most states Code of Judicial Conduct. So the grand jury is not going to have to enter its job, already fully briefed on every case law that could possibly be on the books.

If there are, indeed, legal complications beyond those presented by the parties, the judge could simply brief the grand jury on what legal issues he considered on his own. Whether he acted in good faith is, absolutely, something that an untrained civilian can determine.

So no, your speculation as to what this would lead to is simply unwarranted.

And further these same amateurs get to throw judges in jail with no due process? This is beyond stupidity
Where the flying hell did you get that crazy idea? No, that is NOT what the initiative says, at all!
 
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