Why does the left think that either: A). All cultures are equal, Or. B). Most cultures are better than the (evil)west?

[Koala]

Do liberals believe that the following views held by many strict Muslims men from certain middle eastern countries are compatible, or superior to western views(or are they simply unaware of these realities)?

1). Hypermasculine, patriarchal worldview.
2). Women are viewed as the property of men.
3). Women MUST cover themselves from head to toe.
4). if women don't cover themselves, and they wear revealing western style clothing, they deserve to be raped.
5). They believe rapists shouldn't be punished because the women brought it upon themselves by wearing immodest clothing.
6). Women shouldn't be allowed to leave the house, drive cars, or work unless a man approves of it.
7). Forcibly arranged marriages for women
8). Marrying cousins is encouraged(Somalia).
9). Pakistani gangs in UK groomed thousands of native girls, some younger than 13, to become addicted to drugs or alcohol, then turned them into sex slaves to be passed around and raped by scores of men.

Unfortunately, the UK police are (leftist) ideologically captured, so they looked the other way, and even blamed the girls! The UK "news" media also helped cover it up. Their reasoning was that they didn't want to upset the un-integrated, tribal Pakistani community, because "diversity (without assimilation) is our strength".

PT. 1
In every point you've listed,you list simply tropes and examples of the most extreme, backwards elements of the society. And then use that to extrapolate about the mainstream Muslim culture. Meanwhile, for the West, you refuse to do the same, if you picked out the most extreme elements of the West, such as far right MAGA and Western/white supremacists, you would come up with a very similarly poor picture of Western society -- dare I say actually worse, cause Western society has no excuse for being so Ignorant considering the access they have to internet and ability to travel the world and actually see for themselves that the narrative theyve been fed their whole lives is not quite right. Meanwhile poor Muslims in say Afghanistan, dont have that luxury to "broaden their horizons." SO yeah, actually less excusable than the Taliban.

I am a practicing Muslim man, born in a "strict Muslim country" -- Saudi Arabia in 1980s is as strict as they come. Moved to U.S. in 1990 cause my Dad saw the gulf war, and decided the Middle East region is about to go to hell, we need to get out (he was kinda right, considering we werent Saudi citizens and so could have been sent back to the original Muslim country we came from, which is now the most war torn and failed country on the planet, cause it made the mistake of trying to have democratic elections and the world didnt like that, as that would have made it less ).

I dont believe in any of those things, and neither do most of the practicing Muslim men I know. You are simply ignorant and clearly do not actually know many if any practicing Muslims. I invite you to try to get to know some, and try to approach them/us as equals, not with an arrogant air like we have to prove ourselves to you, and you might be surprised that the reality youve constructed in your mind is not reality. Try not to be hypocrite, noone likes dealing with a hypocrite, and while Muslims are taught to be patient and respond to criticism in a goodly manner, it is a difficult thing to achieve in practice, God forgive us, cause hypocrisy is very very infuriating to deal with.

 

[bomberfox]

America is evil but there are worse countries

 

[Uncensored2008]

That wasn't critical theory, it literally didn't exist yet. Critical theory is generally attributed to the frankfurt school, which was decades after Marx. And again, you aren't using the terms correctly. It literally has nothing to do with dialectical materialism. Thats just a method of analysis, it doesn't make ethical claims.

Try again;

From the linked white paper;

Horkheimer published an article in 1937 Traditional and Critical Theory.

It is in fact the very definition of critical theory.

 

[Uncensored2008]

America is evil but there are worse countries

If you hate America, GTFO

 

[Uncensored2008]

You Cannot Stop What’s Coming

The complete collapse of the filthy democrat party?

I wouldn't want to.

America has entered a golden age - which by definition means the democrats are finished in this country.

 

[stevecanuck]

Hey - killing off the "useless eaters" is a big step for any tyranny. Canada joins the proud company of the Khmer Rouge and Nazi Germany in taking to bold step to end the lives of those not deemed useful by the state.

Be proud.

MAID is 100% voluntary. Here are the criteria (according to ChatGPT. I have read it, and it complies with everything I've heard - especially from the widow of a good friend who used it):

In Canada, Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) is regulated under federal law (Criminal Code of Canada) with additional oversight by provinces/territories. As of 2023, the main eligibility criteria are:

1. Age & Capacity
   
   • You must be at least 18 years old.
   • You must be capable of making your own health decisions (mentally competent at the time of the request and immediately before receiving MAID).
2. Health Coverage
   
   • You must be eligible for publicly funded health care in Canada (to prevent “MAID tourism”).
3. Grievous & Irremediable Medical Condition
   All of these must apply:
   
   • Have a serious and incurable illness, disease, or disability.
   • Be in an advanced state of irreversible decline in capability.
   • Experience enduring physical or psychological suffering that is intolerable to you and cannot be relieved under conditions you consider acceptable.
4. Voluntary Request
   
   • Your request for MAID must be made voluntarily, without pressure from others.
5. Informed Consent
   
   • You must give informed consent to receive MAID, after being informed of other available means to relieve suffering (such as palliative care).

Two pathways to MAID exist depending on whether a person’s natural death is reasonably foreseeable:

• If yes: fewer safeguards apply (shorter waiting period, etc.).
• If no: stricter safeguards apply, including a 90-day minimum assessment period.

Notable exclusions:

• You cannot receive MAID solely for a mental illness as the underlying condition until at least March 2027 (the government delayed implementation).
• You must be able to consent immediately before the procedure, unless you’ve signed an advance request (only permitted in very limited circumstances, e.g., where death is reasonably foreseeable but loss of capacity is imminent).

 

[ashton]

Try again;

From the linked white paper;

Horkheimer published an article in 1937 Traditional and Critical Theory.

It is in fact the very definition of critical theory.

... Horkheimer is literally a leader of the frankfurt school. Thats who I was talking about. So you are agreeing with me on that FYI. And yes, that was in 1937. Marx died in 1883, so no critical theory was not a part of dialectical materialism or any other idea of Marx because it literally didn't exist yet. It was something that developed later that was heavily influenced by marxism.

 

[stevecanuck]

PT. 1
In every point you've listed,you list simply tropes and examples of the most extreme, backwards elements of the society. And then use that to extrapolate about the mainstream Muslim culture. Meanwhile, for the West, you refuse to do the same, if you picked out the most extreme elements of the West, such as far right MAGA and Western/white supremacists, you would come up with a very similarly poor picture of Western society -- dare I say actually worse, cause Western society has no excuse for being so Ignorant considering the access they have to internet and ability to travel the world and actually see for themselves that the narrative theyve been fed their whole lives is not quite right. Meanwhile poor Muslims in say Afghanistan, dont have that luxury to "broaden their horizons." SO yeah, actually less excusable than the Taliban.

I am a practicing Muslim man, born in a "strict Muslim country" -- Saudi Arabia in 1980s is as strict as they come. Moved to U.S. in 1990 cause my Dad saw the gulf war, and decided the Middle East region is about to go to hell, we need to get out (he was kinda right, considering we werent Saudi citizens and so could have been sent back to the original Muslim country we came from, which is now the most war torn and failed country on the planet, cause it made the mistake of trying to have democratic elections and the world didnt like that, as that would have made it less ).

I dont believe in any of those things, and neither do most of the practicing Muslim men I know. You are simply ignorant and clearly do not actually know many if any practicing Muslims. I invite you to try to get to know some, and try to approach them/us as equals, not with an arrogant air like we have to prove ourselves to you, and you might be surprised that the reality youve constructed in your mind is not reality. Try not to be hypocrite, noone likes dealing with a hypocrite, and while Muslims are taught to be patient and respond to criticism in a goodly manner, it is a difficult thing to achieve in practice, God forgive us, cause hypocrisy is very very infuriating to deal with.

Men are in charge of women, and can have up to four wives. Sounds like a pretty acccurate definition of "property" to me.

 

[Jezcoe]

ROFL

Teddy was not president, nor did he run the Hearst newspapers

He was the acting Asst secretary of the Navy.

Killed 10's of thousands..... Not during the war - but just for shits and giggles/

I have my doubts that you understand which war I am talking about.

Pretty much everything you have posted is false. Whether due to ignorance or chicanery I don't know.

Just because you don’t know it happened does not make it untrue.

I know our history

I have my doubts.

 

[Koala]

Pt. 2
So lets get into your mind-numbingly inaccurate list.

1) Off the top, number one is an opinion and is true of the West too. Again, you are taking the most extreme views and applying it to the mainstream. So if I took the most extreme Western views (from white supremacists and far right Maga), I would come up with a similarly patriarchal view. Lets ask the women in your country with they think of how women's rights under MAGA has transformed to, shall we? No of course you dont want to do that, that would be a more fair comparison, and you;re just interested in being a hypocrite and pointing fingers at others in order to obfuscate with the real problems the West has.

2) No, they are not. Men are given what is called "authority over women", and in return women have rights over men. That is directly the words of the prophet. s.a.w., that Muslims strive for. Sometimes we fail, and God forgive us for that. So technically, what is the authority men are given over women? It is specified actually to being able to choose whom your wife may and may not be friends with, and also you may compel your wife to stop actions that you deem are spreading corruption and encouraging other women to spread corruption and impiety (i.e. if she is dressing inappropriately, going to nightclubs with her friends, etc.). Women are called the "dedicated helper" of men,in the words of the prophet s.a.w. in last speech. Obviously, some men abuse this "authority" -- and theyll be judged by God for that, cause God warned men to be careful in this area. But what is being asked for is to view marriage as both people serving each other and serving the family.

3) Literally not true nor the case. You are referring to a cultural practice in a few Muslim countries that has somehow morphed inappropriately into a religious and legal edict: being some Gulf COuntries (minus UAE and Oman), plus Afghanistan. Not true in the vast majority of the Muslim world -- literally. Not in Malaysia, not in Indonesia, not in Turkey,not in North AFrica, not in UAE, not in not in Pakistan,not in the Levant or Meghrab (Lebanon, whats left of Palestine, Syria, Morocoo, Algeria, not in India, not in Sudan, not in most parts of Somalia, not in all of the West African countries including Senegal and Ivory Coast -- literally the majority of the Muslim world right there does NOT compel women to cover from head to toe.

At the most is a requirement/expectation of head covering (hijab). The rest of dress wear requirements/expectations are no different than what you would have seen in say 1950's America -- conservative by todays Western standards, but some would say that todays Western standards are not really representative of most of the world's standards for most of human history. Tight booty shorts and a tank top isnt gonna fly in a lot of non-Western countires, not just Muslim ones.

4) Not even remotely true. Again I can tell youve never actually traveled to a Muslim country in a non-combat capacity. Go to Egypt, go to Turkey, go to UAE, go to Morocco, Algeria, go to just about any Muslim country, a woman dressing in Western clothes will be seen everywhere, and noone will bat an eye. THis is where you really reveal yourself to be ignorant, and racist, and repeating tropes about a people/countries youve never actually bothered visiting. I dont care about what you saw in your tour in Afghanistan, Im talking about VISITING just about any Muslim in the world.

5) ACtually the oppositve of truth, and once again proving you are shockingly and unusually (even for a "Westerner") ignorant. Youre more ignorant than must Westerners I have come across, I cannot stress this enough. Anyhow the truth is, Muslims have the harshest penalty on earth for rape: its the death penalty! Rapists get the death penalty. Period. I know where you got your misinformation from -- there were a fews case in Pakistan and I believe one in Afghanistan -- where a woman who was gang raped was sentenced to death (for adultery) while the rapists got off. In most these cases there was a public outcry, nationwide protests, and the sentences had to be reversed. Yes, sometimes the justice system fails badly, in one of the most famous cases the judge was corrupt and was accused of taking a bribe from the rapists family. Thats very possible in Pakistan, happens a lot unfortunately there. Thankfully in almost all cases, the public outcry that resulted ended up with the rapists in jail and sentenced to death, eventually.

 

[Koala]

Subnote to part 4 -5: you put on this air about caring about abuse of Women, and rape. But you're a hypocrite, you just want to try to shame Muslims. If you cared about rape and abuse of Women, you should do what "liberals" here do, what you actually criticize amazingly -- focus on your problems here in America. In America, their is a HUGE problem of rape for women, and abuse of women. As in, one of the worst probelms in the world, even more than in the Muslim countries you wanna villify while ignoring the problems here. That proves you are a hypocrite. Statistics are hard to come by in comparison, so I know you have no actual data for your claims that Muslim countries are worse off than this, you only have tropes, generalizations and your own racist assumptions. THe few statistics we have show a shocking problem here in America, you dont need to look anywehere else or focus on anywhere else, if you truly care about women.

Just for a quick example, it was shown that a women is several times more likely to be killed/severly injured by her partner/spouse in America than she is in Saudi Arabia. In general, when it comes to violence of all forms, America is near or at the top of the list, far ahead of most Muslim countries, and that INCLUDES violence against women and violence against children. So when liberals say, forget Muslims lets work on our problems here, they are trying not to be hypocritcal and trying to be sincere about the problem. And you think THAT is a problem, their sincerity and lack of hypocrisy. THank you for exposing yourself as a terrible person. The good news is God forgives all, and there is still time to become a better person, I invite you to do that.

 

[dairyair]

Wh

Do liberals believe that the following views held by many strict Muslims men from certain middle eastern countries are compatible, or superior to western views(or are they simply unaware of these realities)?

1). Hypermasculine, patriarchal worldview.
2). Women are viewed as the property of men.
3). Women MUST cover themselves from head to toe.
4). if women don't cover themselves, and they wear revealing western style clothing, they deserve to be raped.
5). They believe rapists shouldn't be punished because the women brought it upon themselves by wearing immodest clothing.
6). Women shouldn't be allowed to leave the house, drive cars, or work unless a man approves of it.
7). Forcibly arranged marriages for women
8). Marrying cousins is encouraged(Somalia).
9). Pakistani gangs in UK groomed thousands of native girls, some younger than 13, to become addicted to drugs or alcohol, then turned them into sex slaves to be passed around and raped by scores of men.

Unfortunately, the UK police are (leftist) ideologically captured, so they looked the other way, and even blamed the girls! The UK "news" media also helped cover it up. Their reasoning was that they didn't want to upset the un-integrated, tribal Pakistani community, because "diversity (without assimilation) is our strength".

What makes you think that's what the left believes?

What is the left?
How many are there?
Do you think they all are the same?

 

[dairyair]

I

They're aware, they just don't care.

Islam is anti-America, anti-Christian, antisemitic, anti-free speech, and pro big government, so they feel the trade-off is worth it.

Is religious freedom a right?

 

[aociswundumho]

I

Is religious freedom a right?

Of course.

 

[Koala]

SteveCanuck I have already told you I will not address you until you show some sincerity. But I will break my own rule one last tine. You are displaying precisely the type of hypocrite Allah warns about in the QUran -- the one that only wants to strictly judge others but never ever accedes to being judged themselves.

Again, if you actually cared about women, or anything at all other than hatred of Muslims, you would post something about fixing our own problems in the West. Like I said, plenty of problems concerning violence against women here in America to tackle, no need to look elsewhere. Yet do you that, ever?

Look at your own posting history, and be introspective for a moment (if you are capable of that). Ask yourself, why do I never ever post about anything except about hating Muslims? Is that all I care about? What does that mean about me? WHy am I so utterly convinced that the only problem in the world is the presence of Islam? Whens the last time a Muslim actually did anything that harmed me or someone I know? ANd yet, somehow I have become totally obssessed with the supposed danger of Islam? Hmm, is that healthy, is that wise, and is that going to improve my life and my mental health in any way?

 

[dairyair]

So

Of course.

So, protecting rights of Islam in USA should be equal to every other religion

Your post came off as the left protective of Islam as wrong and some sort of trade off

 

[Koala]

If you hate America, GTFO

No, if you dont like it here in America, than stay here in America and fight to make America better. Thats what a TRUE Patriot does. Only a cowards runs way.

So, what dont You get the GTFO. People wanting America to be better, is what MIGHT return America to some semblance of being a respectable world leader. People like you, that want everyone who criticizes America to GTFO, is what will accerelate the spiral America is currently in. Again, I say why dont you GTFO We're both citizens, what makes you or gives you the authority to decide who should and should not stay in America?

Actually I think anyone that wants, encourages, or asks citizens of the United States of America to GTFO over their political views, beliefs, or assessment of the state of the nation and society -- those are the people who are unAmerican and should be asked to GTFO. Matter of fact new rule, anybody that supports the deportation of American citizens for any reasons should be immediately deported themsleves. I say we make that a constitutional amendment.

 

[stevecanuck]

SteveCanuck I have already told you I will not address you until you show some sincerity.

Oh, I am very sincere in my hatred of Islam. I think of it as the cancer of the earth. Very. Sincere.

If you find any error at all in the quotes I give to prove points, I urge you - no, I beg you - to show me the error of my ways.

If you'll remember, you tried to deny my claim that jihad and qatl were used interchangeably. I proved in no uncertain terms that they were, and your response was to stalk off in the faux huff of the defeated.

But I will break my own rule one last tine. You are displaying precisely the type of hypocrite Allah warns about in the QUran -- the one that only wants to strictly judge others but never ever accedes to being judged themselves.

To begin with, that is NOT how Hypocrites are described in the Qur'an. They are those who profess to be Muslims, but when it comes to obligatory fighting and killing and dying for Allah, they make excuses to stay at home. Read the Qur'an and learn the difference.

Secondly, I am more than willing to be judged. Chose anything I say about Islam or the Qur'an and show me how I'm wrong.

Again, if you actually cared about women, or anything at all other than hatred of Muslims,

Hatred of Islam. Individual Muslims get the benefit of the doubt until they do things like kill Jews at a music festival, or cheer those that did.

you would post something about fixing our own problems in the West.

Ridiculous deflection that has nothing to do with Islam or my feelings about it.

Like I said, plenty of problems concerning violence against women here in America to tackle, no need to look elsewhere. Yet do you that, ever?

Yes, women need to be protected everywhere in the world. Nice try pretending I don't believe that.

Look at your own posting history, and be introspective for a moment (if you are capable of that). Ask yourself, why do I never ever post about anything except about hating Muslims?

Islam, not Muslims per se.

And if you check, you'll see I chime in on a variety of subjects. Nice try again. Well, actually it was just another attempt to deflecting.

Again, I invite you to show me anything I've said about islam that's wrong. Follow me. Read my posts. Hold my feet to the fire (figuratively, not like ISIS does).

Is that all I care about? What does that mean about me? WHy am I so utterly convinced that the only problem in the world is the presence of Islam?

Strawman. I have never said it's the only problem. Try harder.

Whens the last time a Muslim actually did anything that harmed me or someone I know? ANd yet, somehow I have become totally obssessed with the supposed danger of Islam? Hmm, is that healthy, is that wise, and is that going to improve my life and my mental health in any way?

So, do you actually have any arguments to put forward, or are vague and gratuitous accusations your only defense of the indefensible?

 

[stevecanuck]

Pt. 2
So lets get into your mind-numbingly inaccurate list.

1) Off the top, number one is an opinion and is true of the West too. Again, you are taking the most extreme views and applying it to the mainstream. So if I took the most extreme Western views (from white supremacists and far right Maga), I would come up with a similarly patriarchal view. Lets ask the women in your country with they think of how women's rights under MAGA has transformed to, shall we? No of course you dont want to do that, that would be a more fair comparison, and you;re just interested in being a hypocrite and pointing fingers at others in order to obfuscate with the real problems the West has.

Hmmmm, don't see any American non-Muslim women who are walking tents since the election.

 

[stevecanuck]

2) No, they are not. Men are given what is called "authority over women", and in return women have rights over men. That is directly the words of the prophet. s.a.w., that Muslims strive for. Sometimes we fail, and God forgive us for that. So technically, what is the authority men are given over women? It is specified actually to being able to choose whom your wife may and may not be friends with, and also you may compel your wife to stop actions that you deem are spreading corruption and encouraging other women to spread corruption and impiety (i.e. if she is dressing inappropriately, going to nightclubs with her friends, etc.). Women are called the "dedicated helper" of men,in the words of the prophet s.a.w. in last speech.

Seriously? Do you really not hear how that sounds????

 

[stevecanuck]

3) Literally not true nor the case. You are referring to a cultural practice in a few Muslim countries that has somehow morphed inappropriately into a religious and legal edict: being some Gulf COuntries (minus UAE and Oman), plus Afghanistan. Not true in the vast majority of the Muslim world -- literally. Not in Malaysia, not in Indonesia, not in Turkey,not in North AFrica, not in UAE, not in not in Pakistan,not in the Levant or Meghrab (Lebanon, whats left of Palestine, Syria, Morocoo, Algeria, not in India, not in Sudan, not in most parts of Somalia, not in all of the West African countries including Senegal and Ivory Coast -- literally the majority of the Muslim world right there does NOT compel women to cover from head to toe.

Correct. Sort of.

In the majority of those countries that do not require women to be walking tents, they do make them wear garments that do about 95% of the job.

 

[stevecanuck]

4) Not even remotely true. Again I can tell youve never actually traveled to a Muslim country in a non-combat capacity. Go to Egypt, go to Turkey, go to UAE, go to Morocco, Algeria, go to just about any Muslim country, a woman dressing in Western clothes will be seen everywhere, and noone will bat an eye. THis is where you really reveal yourself to be ignorant, and racist, and repeating tropes about a people/countries youve never actually bothered visiting. I dont care about what you saw in your tour in Afghanistan, Im talking about VISITING just about any Muslim in the world.

I mostly agree here. Such women are viewed dimly, but rape would probably be rare.

 

[bomberfox]

If you hate America, GTFO

Help me the **** out of here and i will happily leave your shithole country lol! I hope it gets broken up to contain your festering pustule of a king.

 

[stevecanuck]

5) ACtually the oppositve of truth, and once again proving you are shockingly and unusually (even for a "Westerner") ignorant. Youre more ignorant than must Westerners I have come across, I cannot stress this enough. Anyhow the truth is, Muslims have the harshest penalty on earth for rape: its the death penalty! Rapists get the death penalty. Period. I know where you got your misinformation from -- there were a fews case in Pakistan and I believe one in Afghanistan -- where a woman who was gang raped was sentenced to death (for adultery) while the rapists got off. In most these cases there was a public outcry, nationwide protests, and the sentences had to be reversed. Yes, sometimes the justice system fails badly, in one of the most famous cases the judge was corrupt and was accused of taking a bribe from the rapists family. Thats very possible in Pakistan, happens a lot unfortunately there. Thankfully in almost all cases, the public outcry that resulted ended up with the rapists in jail and sentenced to death, eventually.

Define rape. Verse 2:223 (Your wives are a place of sowing seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish) states quite clearly that sex withn marriage in never rape. Ask the women in Afghaniston about the Taliban's ruling.

And how about the four verses that allows for sex with slaves and captives? Please deny this. I would love to quote them for you.

 

[stevecanuck]

Help me the **** out of here and i will happily leave your shithole country lol! I hope it gets broken up to contain your festering pustule of a king.

So you live in the U S of A, but you're not an American? Do you mind me axing you where you're from?