Why do Republicans support massive spending and debt (then lie about it)?

[dcsports]

This is one of the major 'excuses' used by conservatives to justify cutting welfare, rent subsidies, SNAP and other programs for American poor, yet I've never seen a single academic study supporting this fallacy. Anybody else read such a study?

I've never seen a study to support that fallacy. In fact, you may have just made it up.

 

[danielpalos]

Why would you have a solution for the natural rate of unemployment? It's a sign of a healthy economy.

Because, the right wing likes to whine about taxes for social services but not warfare services.

 

[danielpalos]

LOL. You need a 'study' to tell you that?

No, I need a study to tell me a welfare State economic paradigm simply generates a higher positive multiplier effect than a warfare State economic paradigm; and is much less taxing on the People and our Individual Liberty.

 

[dcsports]

Because, the right wing likes to whine about taxes for social services but not warfare services.

Can you restate that please? It doesn't make sense.

The natural rate of unemployment is an economic term that includes people in transition... people entering the workforce, or moving between employers. You will always have this, and it's a sign of a healthy economy. if unemployment gets too low, it means a shortage of workers, and you'll see wage inflation and other issues.

While some of these people could be on unemployment between jobs, this group doesn't have anything to do with welfare.

 

[danielpalos]

Can you restate that please? It doesn't make sense.

The natural rate of unemployment is an economic term that includes people in transition... people entering the workforce, or moving between employers. You will always have this, and it's a sign of a healthy economy. if unemployment gets too low, it means a shortage of workers, and you'll see wage inflation and other issues.

While some of these people could be on unemployment between jobs, this group doesn't have anything to do with welfare.

It has to do with economics and money circulating in our economy. Solving simple poverty, solves that problem in a manner analogous to an oil pump.

 

[dcsports]

It has to do with economics and money circulating in our economy. Solving simple poverty, solves that problem in a manner analogous to an oil pump.

What action are you referring to? And what problem does it solve?

Again, a natural unemployment level isn't a problem.

 

[danielpalos]

What action are you referring to? And what problem does it solve?

Again, a natural unemployment level isn't a problem.

Yes, a natural rate of unemployment is a problem for Labor. It Only exists for the bottom line, of Capitalists.

Solving it could be as simple as the social concept of equality, can make it.

Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will, could also function as a more cost effective social safety net for Labor.

And, solve simple poverty on an at-will basis in our political-economy.

the analogy would be an oil pump in a combustion engine.

 

[dcsports]

Yes, a natural rate of unemployment is a problem for Labor. It Only exists for the bottom line, of Capitalists.

Solving it could be as simple as the social concept of equality, can make it.

Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will, could also function as a more cost effective social safety net for Labor.

And, solve simple poverty on an at-will basis in our political-economy.

the analogy would be an oil pump in a combustion engine.

OK. I'm making one more attempt. It appears you either don't understand the terminology, or are just using it incorrectly.

Unemployment is a measure of people not working, generally speaking, based on people looking for work. The natural rate of unemployment describes the 'long term' unemployment level, the floor, where most people are working, but there is some slack for people either between jobs or entering the workforce. It can't get to zero. You don't want it to even be too low, because that would indicate a shortage of labor.

Now, you keep suggesting an analogy to an oil pump -- can you explain what you mean by that?

 

[danielpalos]

OK. I'm making one more attempt. It appears you either don't understand the terminology, or are just using it incorrectly.

Unemployment is a measure of people not working, generally speaking, based on people looking for work. The natural rate of unemployment describes the 'long term' unemployment level, the floor, where most people are working, but there is some slack for people either between jobs or entering the workforce. It can't get to zero. You don't want it to even be too low, because that would indicate a shortage of labor.

Now, you keep suggesting an analogy to an oil pump -- can you explain what you mean by that?

You have to understand the concept of employment at will.

 

[dcsports]

You have to understand the concept of employment at will.

I understand it very well. Thank you. Please continue.

 

[danielpalos]

I understand it very well. Thank you. Please continue.

a natural rate of unemployment is a problem for Labor. It Only exists for the bottom line, of Capitalists.

Solving it could be as simple as the social concept of equality, can make it.

Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will, could also function as a more cost effective social safety net for Labor.

And, solve simple poverty on an at-will basis in our political-economy.

the analogy would be an oil pump in a combustion engine.

(compensation for Capitalism's, natural rate of unemployment).

Solving simple poverty could be as simple as applying our current laws; to unemployment compensation.

 

[dcsports]

a natural rate of unemployment is a problem for Labor. It Only exists for the bottom line, of Capitalists.

Solving it could be as simple as the social concept of equality, can make it.

Equal protection of the law regarding the concept of employment at will, could also function as a more cost effective social safety net for Labor.

And, solve simple poverty on an at-will basis in our political-economy.

the analogy would be an oil pump in a combustion engine.

(compensation for Capitalism's, natural rate of unemployment).

Solving simple poverty could be as simple as applying our current laws; to unemployment compensation.

I believe you said all this before, but it's very disjointed, and much of it doesn't make sense. Why don't you start with your analogy about an oil pump in a combustion engine.

 

[danielpalos]

I believe you said all this before, but it's very disjointed, and much of it doesn't make sense. Why don't you start with your analogy about an oil pump in a combustion engine.

lol. Unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis, will solve simple poverty.

 

[dcsports]

lol. Unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis, will solve simple poverty.

Are you saying... pay everyone, even if they choose not to work? That's not going to solve anything, and will make the problem worse. More people will drop out of the labor force, and simply live off the government.

FYI -- that's also not "at will employment".

 

[danielpalos]

Are you saying... pay everyone, even if they choose not to work? That's not going to solve anything, and will make the problem worse. More people will drop out of the labor force, and simply live off the government.

FYI -- that's also not "at will employment".

Employment is at-will. Why will Individual Liberty, "make things worse"?

Solving simple poverty will enable Labor to circulate money regardless of employment. And, it is more cost effective than any form of mean tested welfare.

Capitalism; why does the right wing, declaim it at every opportunity? Not enough socialism on a national basis.

 

[dcsports]

Employment is at-will. Why will Individual Liberty, "make things worse"?

Solving simple poverty will enable Labor to circulate money regardless of employment. And, it is more cost effective than any form of mean tested welfare.

Capitalism; why does the right wing, declaim it at every opportunity? Not enough socialism on a national basis.

Again, you aren't making a lot of sense. You need to expand on your thoughts. I can't drag it out of you.

At will employment is the concept that a person can be terminated without cause, which is used in many states.

It sounds like you are talking about something different -- giving everyone a salary whether they work or not. Is that what you are suggesting? If so, no, that won't work. Many people try to scam the system to do this now with the programs we have. Given the option, many would not work, and crime and poverty would become worse. There's no country that does this. Even communist countries expect able bodied people to earn their keep.

 

[danielpalos]

Again, you aren't making a lot of sense. You need to expand on your thoughts. I can't drag it out of you.

At will employment is the concept that a person can be terminated without cause, which is used in many states.

It sounds like you are talking about something different -- giving everyone a salary whether they work or not. Is that what you are suggesting? If so, no, that won't work. Many people try to scam the system to do this now with the programs we have. Given the option, many would not work, and crime and poverty would become worse. There's no country that does this. Even communist countries expect able bodied people to earn their keep.

Dude; anyone who know's anything about these issues, knows what I am talking about.

 

[dcsports]

Dude; anyone who know's anything about these issues, knows what I am talking about.

Um, OK. "Dude", you are nibbling on the edges of a fringe concept. If you want to discuss it, you're going to have to help a little bit.

Otherwise, no, the natural level of unemployment is not a problem to be fixed. Paying people and giving them the option to work or not is (A) silly, and (B) won't eliminate unemployment, because you'll still have people who want to work who haven't yet found employment.

 

[danielpalos]

Um, OK. "Dude", you are nibbling on the edges of a fringe concept. If you want to discuss it, you're going to have to help a little bit.

Otherwise, no, the natural level of unemployment is not a problem to be fixed. Paying people and giving them the option to work or not is (A) silly, and (B) won't eliminate unemployment, because you'll still have people who want to work who haven't yet found employment.

Why do you say that? Under capitalism, capital merely needs to circulate.

 

[dcsports]

Why do you say that? Under capitalism, capital merely needs to circulate.

Well... money needs to circulate, but it technically doesn't have to circulate to everyone equally. But the bigger piece is giving people an incentive to work. If people want more money, they have to work harder, smarter, gain skills and knowledge. If they find rewards in other ways, such as personal fulfillment or seeking challenges, they can do that too. If they want to work just enough to feed themselves, they can do that too. But if you pay everyone and leave it up to them to work -- few will work as hard, and many won't work at all.

Again, where does an oil pump come in? Are you trying to use the analogy of 'priming the pump'?

 

[danielpalos]

Well... money needs to circulate, but it technically doesn't have to circulate to everyone equally. But the bigger piece is giving people an incentive to work. If people want more money, they have to work harder, smarter, gain skills and knowledge. If they find rewards in other ways, such as personal fulfillment or seeking challenges, they can do that too. If they want to work just enough to feed themselves, they can do that too. But if you pay everyone and leave it up to them to work -- few will work as hard, and many won't work at all.

Again, where does an oil pump come in? Are you trying to use the analogy of 'priming the pump'?

How does what you claim, help solve simple poverty?

Solving simple poverty could be as simple as the concept of employment at will can make it.

Equality is a social concept. Why not advocate, "paying hard" for "working hard"?

 

[dcsports]

How does what you claim, help solve simple poverty?

Solving simple poverty could be as simple as the concept of employment at will can make it.

Equality is a social concept. Why not advocate, "paying hard" for "working hard"?

Huh? We weren't talking about solving simple poverty. And it's not my 'claim' -- I was trying to offer you an explanation.

Again, you really aren't making sense. You are mixing terms and not offering an explanation at all.

 

[danielpalos]

Employment is at-will. Why will Individual Liberty, "make things worse"? Capital merely needs to circulate under any form of Capitalism.

Solving simple poverty will enable Labor to circulate money regardless of employment. And, it is more cost effective than any form of mean tested welfare.

Capitalism; why does the right wing, declaim Capitalism at every opportunity? Not enough socialism on a national basis.

 

[dcsports]

Employment is at-will. Why will Individual Liberty, "make things worse"? Capital merely needs to circulate under any form of Capitalism..

Again, you are mixing terms and offering incomplete thoughts. You don't seem to grasp the economic concepts behind your suggestions. I'm about to step away. If anyone else wants to take a challenge??

At-will employment is the concept of being able to terminate employment without cause -- exercised in many states. That would seem to be the opposite of how you are using the term.

Individual liberty -- that's a new one thrown it. It's great! People should have freedom, and in the context of employment, be able to work, seek better employment, or quit. It has nothing to do with getting paid regardless of whether you work. In fact, I could easily argue that that kind of dependence on the government gives the government more control over your life, reducing individual liberty.

Make things worse -- again, if you don't give people incentive to work, they won't work as hard, and many not at all. In terms of employment, this would decrease the labor pool and decrease efficiency -- not to mention placing a greater burden on thos working.

Capital merely needs to circulate... -- Money needs to circulate (capital is different, but we won't get into that now) but that's true of any economy. From a basic standpoint, capitalism is more about the ability to accumulate capital, and use that as an incentive to work harder/better/smarter. The circulation of money isn't the ONLY requirement.

Again, maybe it would help if you tried to explain your analogy of an oil pump.

 

[danielpalos]

Unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed will solve simple poverty in Any at-will employment State.

That is how simple it could be. We should be lowering our tax burden by cost shifting welfare participants to a more cost effective social safety net for Individuals.