Why do people get offended when it's pointed out that not voting for Harris helped Trump win? (2 Viewers)

[NotreDame]

@NotreDame
I appreciate your detailed responses but when all is said and done, as I said in post above -
Obviously, candidates play a significant role in influencing the election's outcome but it is ultimately the eligible voters who decide through their choice at the ballot box. Or their choice to stay home.

It is illogical to assert the eligible voters choosing to stay home decide an election. Again, you’ve turned the logic of causation upside down. Ballots cast decide a winner as opposed to ballots not cast.

 

[Lursa]

And you’re wrong. https://www.usa.gov/electoral-college#:~:text=After you cast your ballot,electors using a proportional system.

There are state laws allocating a winner take all for their EC in 48 states.

From your link:

"While the Constitution does not require electors to vote for the candidate chosen by their state's popular vote, some states do. The rare elector who votes for someone else may be fined, disqualified, and replaced by a substitute elector. Or they may even be prosecuted by their state." link​

Not all states do and...it can be changed at the state level.

 

[Tangmo]

I already told you I reject your contention that Kamala Harris was a candidate of liberal democracy.

Take my vote and add to any other candidate and nothing changes.

Then you did dumb things. If a person wanted Trump in the White House, by far the most effective strategy in the voting booth is to vote for him. Goody for you. I didn't want Harris to win either, so I wasn't going to vote for her.

Since I'm defending my choice in the voting booth, I'm not sure who the **** you think I should be talking about.


Good riddance.

Confusion continues to reign in your posts I'm afraid. I've said for months I voted for Harris because I wanted Harris to win. I said this from the moment Harris became the party's nominee. So wherever you got your "either" put it back and leave it there. There's no "either" in this between you and I.

Each voter had the individual and personal choice to vote for Harris as the only possible way to stop Trump. The idiot madman Trump won because of each individual voter making the voter's personal choice in the election.

As I have posted, it is true that many third party voters use their vote as their purposeful cover for wanting Trump elected again without having to vote for Trump and His Fascist Dictatorship. The conclusive proof is that the third party voter's false claim Harris was NOT the candidate of liberal democracy vs fascist dictatorship. This claim is blatantly false on its face, or prima facie.

FAIL.

 

[Tangmo]

We should probably ban third parties, then. No one gets to hold office unless they are members of one of the two currently prevailing parties. Third party votes are, after all, wasted and the very existence of the parties themselves are "an active menace against The American Experiment in Democracy," right?

So we should ban them.

MAN OVERBOARD !

Kindly refrain from trying to put words in my mouth plse thx.

I understand your arguments have failed. And that democracy is not your thing. But the reasons are yours, not mine.

 

[iguanaman]

No, I vote for who I want to win because I take responsibility for my vote. I realize the futility of voting as an individual endeavor, recognize that my vote will never decide anything and, considering that, cast it for the candidate I want to win. My vote will have no effect on the outcome. So why shouldn't I vote for the candidate who best represents my preferences?

Voting for someone you know cannot win makes damn sure your vote will have no effect and that is the point. Your preference is to have others decide for you.

 

[Brack]

Voting for someone you know cannot win makes damn sure your vote will have no effect and that is the point. Your preference is to have others decide for you.

There are only about 8 or 9 states that really matter in a Presidential election. The folks who don't live in any of those 8 or 9 states, don't really decide on who is going to win the presidential election. Those who live in those 8 or 9 states basically decide for the whole country on who's going to be the next President.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Not true, but you're entitled to your opinion. Why should anyone be forced to vote for a candidate they strongly dislike? What I'm tired of is having to vote against, instead of for.

Well, how'd that work out for you?

I mean, from an empirical point of view, did your action gain the desired results?

 

[iguanaman]

There are only about 8 or 9 states that really matter in a Presidential election. The folks who don't live in any of those 8 or 9 states, don't really decide on who is going to win the presidential election. Those who live in those 8 or 9 states basically decide for the whole country on who's going to be the next President.

Voting for the best person who can win is still the right thing to do. Just because we have an antiquated election system is no excuse.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I've had some interactions with a few people on this board who say they don't support Trump but didn't vote or voted third party because they didn't like Harris. And when I point out that they are partly responsible for Trump being in office, I get a lot of pushback.

If the people who didn't vote for President voted for Harris and the people who voted third party voted Harris, Trump would not have won. Am I misunderstanding something fundamental about the way our elections work?

Technically if one lives in a non-swing state, how they vote individually for president has no impact at all.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Confusion continues to reign in your posts I'm afraid. I've said for months I voted for Harris because I wanted Harris to win. I said this from the moment Harris became the party's nominee. So wherever you got your "either" put it back and leave it there. There's no "either" in this between you and I.

I never said anything about your motivations for voting for Harris. When I said what you quoted, it was in response to your advocacy for Harris -- I was telling you I didn't want Haris to win either, not that I didn't want Haris to win, either.

Each voter had the individual and personal choice to vote for Harris as the only possible way to stop Trump. The idiot madman Trump won because of each individual voter making the voter's personal choice in the election.

Yes, Trump won because more people voted for him. That's not my fault, it's not anything I can control, and my vote made no difference to the outcome in any way, shape or form.

As I have posted, it is true that many third party voters use their vote as their purposeful cover for wanting Trump elected again without having to vote for Trump and His Fascist Dictatorship.

Yes, you're posted this, but have never shown it to be the case. It's just you making shit up. In order for anyone to take you seriously, you first have to explain why a person who wanted Trump to win would vote for someone who isn't Trump. Until you have a plausible explanation for this (and some mythical idea of "cover" isn't going to cut it), no one should lend your navel-gazing any credibility.

The conclusive proof is that the third party voter's false claim Harris was NOT the candidate of liberal democracy vs fascist dictatorship. This claim is blatantly false on its face, or prima facie.

I reject this claim. Again. I voted for liberty, and Harris was not that candidate.

MAN OVERBOARD !

Kindly refrain from trying to put words in my mouth plse thx.

I'm taking your claim that third parties threaten American Democracy seriously. If you do also, why wouldn't you want to ban them?

democracy is not your thing.

Says the guy who claims I am "an active menace against AMerican Experiment in Democracy" because I didn't vote for his favorite candidate.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Voting for someone you know cannot win makes damn sure your vote will have no effect and that is the point.

How do you keep missing what I'm saying? I admitted my vote will have no effect. But that is true whether I vote for Harris, Trump, Oliver, or Homer J. SImpson (or Homer S. Simpson, H.J. Simpson, Homor Simpson, or Homer J. Fong).

Your preference is to have others decide for you.

My preference is to vote for the candidate I want to win.

 

[Tangmo]

I never said anything about your motivations for voting for Harris. Yes, Trump won because more people voted for him. That's not my fault, it's not anything I can control, and my vote made no difference to the outcome in any way, shape or form. Yes, you're posted this, but have never shown it to be the case. It's just you making shit up. In order for anyone to take you seriously, you first have to explain why a person who wanted Trump to win would vote for someone who isn't Trump. Until you have a plausible explanation for this (and some mythical idea of "cover" isn't going to cut it), no one should lend your navel-gazing any credibility. I reject this claim. Again. I voted for liberty, and Harris was not that candidate. I'm taking your claim that third parties threaten American Democracy seriously. If you do also, why wouldn't you want to ban them? Says the guy who claims I am "an active menace against AMerican Experiment in Democracy" because I didn't vote for his favorite candidate.

That's not it at all.

I wouldn't try to get you to vote for my "favorite" candidate any more than I would want you to wear my "favorite" color shirt. Or support and root for my "favorite" MLB franchise (the Boston Red Sox). Or buy my "favorite" car. Or eat my "favorite" ice cream!

This is not about personalization or personalizing anything.

Which is why the 2024 election was the choice between liberal democracy vs fascist dictatorship. And that the only possible way to stop fascist dictatorship was to vote for Harris. It's about the nature and future of life and living in the United States of America. It's about the form of government and kind of society we will have. It's not about my personally "favorite" anything for everyone else.

 

[iguanaman]

How do you keep missing what I'm saying? I admitted my vote will have no effect. But that is true whether I vote for Harris, Trump, Oliver, or Homer J. SImpson (or Homer S. Simpson, H.J. Simpson, Homor Simpson, or Homer J. Fong).


My preference is to vote for the candidate I want to win.

And if by doing that you get a President like Trump you don't care. Democracy dies when the people no longer realize that it is not a given.

 

[holbritter]

Well, how'd that work out for you?

I mean, from an empirical point of view, did your action gain the desired results?

Not true, but you're entitled to your opinion. Why should anyone be forced to vote for a candidate they strongly dislike? What I'm tired of is having to vote against, instead of for.

How did what work out for me? My action was to vote against (which I'm extremely tired of having to do), but no, I did not get the desired results. Trump still won.