Why do liberals use MAGA as an insult?

[Corbell]

Their are the non-working impoverished, the working poor, the lower, middle, upper working classes (‘the middle class”), the hybrid “well to do” with a foot in both worlds, the rich and the super wealthy.

The combined six lower economic classes make up approximately 92% of the nation and have much more in common with each other than we have with the top 8% or so. None of us have much of anything in common with the top 10th of that first percentile. Whose unfathomable wealth, that I am NOT claiming they are unentitlled to, makes their self-interests totally unlike those of 99.9% of us. They are not citizens of any particular nation, their citizenship is global, they go where they please - when they please, at will. outside the means the rest of us avail ourselves of, with assets readily available to them wherever they choose to have them, power that moves world leaders, and frequently operating above and sometimes outside of any laws because they can.

In fact that phrase defines most of their lives, “Because they can.”

I would suppose it might be very hard to live in such a way and not have it effect the way one thinks. So I doubt they have much in common with the rest of us as they likely, literally, don’t think the same way we do. I’m not sure I, myself, though I’d try hard not to would not be affected by such rarified air as that to the point it would change me on a fundamental level.

In that regard I’d imagine wealth on that level to be kind of a mental illness. You can’t blame someone for being sick.

Do you think POVERTY or WORKING POOR?

 

[Paradoxical]

Oh, you want us on teh dole? Dependent and cowed, at your mercy? What a wonderful plan.


Huh, just ignored my comment about getting more women into stem? Are you pretending that is not a real thing?


I like the HR bit too. Really shows how you people think. Attack me for not getting an edcuation, and then when I do, you don't hire me and cite "hr presptectives". It's not enough that I get a degree, I have to somehow project the idea that I celebrate everything you believe in.


This post of yours is much better than your normal post. Very meaty, really informing us a lot for this discussion.






Actually, the spin and vibe I get from people like you, is that the working class, especially MAGA working class, are lumps that want "externals" to fix their lives for them or some such shit.


So, yes, people have said that. YOur denial is false.

I read the comments of the poster you responded to and am not sure if they were meant as satire or a Babylon Bee audition by a government worker who knows their days are numbered when Vivek and Elon start their purge. Good responses. We are dealing with elitist snobs here who walk around with their noses in the air and like the FBI mentality think that all conservatives who work on the farm, in the factories or the trades are dumb Walmarters.

 

[Corbell]

Only in the midst of individuals that think one is somehow above the other

My mom and mother in law were both Nurse's Aides.
Both of them at a time and place where that was WORKING POOR, in that they, combined with their working class husbands were able to provide the necessities of life for themeselves and their families.

I've also seen times and places were that job fell into the POVERTY status, where hte income would NOT allow that.


What looks like relatively small differences in policy can lead to sitautions where market forces effect wages enough to cross a line, a line that makes a massive differnce in the lives of the people living there.


Your dismissal of this, is you being callous.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Nope - we need larger safety net programs because more and more people are going to be left behind and not able to keep up with technology

I think we agree. Tell me if I’m wrong in this:

We need to redefine “safety net”. Throwing money at problems isn’t sustainable.

It’s not about empathy. It’s about the math. You’re right, more will be in need. A shrinking number can not maintain an increasing number. Resource management needs to come into play.

‘Safety net” needs to define programs that make those falling behind self-sustaining. The crutch that promotes healing then gets out of the way, as opposed to that which limits healing in full so that it becomes a “rest of their lives” support.

There will be those who require a crutch throughout their lives, but making as many fully self-sustaining as possible makes for a greater number to spread those individuals needs between. A shrinking number being helped by an increasing number is sustainable.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Tariffs on imports in no way requires that we minimize public investment into science and research. Reducing immigration in no way requires that we minimize public investment into science and research.

I was referring to the DOGE initiative, which is part of the Trump administration's priorities.

The desire for technological advancement or high tech jobs, does not require, nor is it an excuse to ignore the needs and interests of the working class.

That's the future. Factories will increasingly become automated as robots get cheaper and LLM technologies make them much easier to program.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-grows-over-750-000-153000967.html

They are moving into "this century" as you say. The idea that we can move into it, and ignore large segements of our economy and workforce because the high tech portion will be great, is just wrong on all levels.

This is not a choice that we have. We either stay technologically relevant or we fall behind.

I have a stem degree. I worked as a traveler for several years. Could never get a permanent job. Don't know reasons. Have to consider that people like you were focused on getting more women into stem fields and just decided to **** me.

I work with people that have multiple certifications or degrees. I work with kids fighting to work their way though school.

This is unfortunate. I accidentally got into STEM from another industry.

You assumption that the working class have not tried to adapt is just wrong.

There is a reason I am getting my third degree and its all about keeping up.

 

[Slartibartfast]

So, your point about us dismissing others, was just trash talk? NOthing worth following up there?

In that case, how about conceeding the point clearly? It would be.... the mature thing to do.

No, its the effect of what you want whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Do you think POVERTY or WORKING POOR?

I need to know what you’re driving at to answer.

If someone can’t meet their needs and those of the people they are responsible for what is the difference? A difference with no distinction?

Other than, possibly, one is expressing less “work’ (in quotes because much actual work can be expressed in meeting needs getting from one means of working social nets, begging, transporting from one food source or out of the elements to another, etc, to survive on the street) so perhaps they have more upside potential as they have a resource in “time” they can shift more readily to produce more impactful results - unless other things like addiction or mental illness - both? - are involved. In that regard “the working poor” might be even more impoverished as their work precludes them in some regard to more readily improving their lot.

 

[Ikari]

What do you think I would do?

Make excuses for your Dear Leader and pretend it's the left's fault.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[Paradoxical]

I think we agree. Tell me if I’m wrong in this:

We need to redefine “safety net”. Throwing money at problems isn’t sustainable.

It’s not about empathy. It’s about the math. You’re right, more will be in need. A shrinking number can not maintain an increasing number. Resource management needs to come into play.

‘Safety net” needs to define programs that make those falling behind self-sustaining. The crutch that promotes healing then gets out of the way, as opposed to that which limits healing in full so that it becomes a “rest of their lives” support.

There will be those who require a crutch throughout their lives, but making as many fully self-sustaining as possible makes for a greater number to spread those individuals needs between. A shrinking number being helped by an increasing number is sustainable.

We have CREATED the current problem by not demanding that drug addicts on the streets get OFF the streets and clean. When we do give them a shelter they don't want to abide by rules and trash it or leave back to the streets. We need to RE-criminalize drug use and create more prisons.

We need to make welfare workfare and have the recipients do charity work such as painting low-income houses, tending to their property, working at a food bank. You'll see the welfare rolls plummet.

We need to throw people in jail for crimes instead of letting them loose.

WE crated these problems BEACUSE of safety nets.

 

[Paradoxical]

Make excuses for your Dear Leader and pretend it's the left's fault.

It IS the lefts' fault which is to spend other people's money to salve their guilt that there are poor people in the world while they work at their cushy gubment job.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

We have CREATED the current problem by not demanding that drug addicts on the streets get OFF the streets and clean. When we do give them a shelter they don't want to abide by rules and trash it or leave back to the streets. We need to RE-criminalize drug use and create more prisons.

I can tell you, as having been part of that system, that won’t work.

We need to “sentence” non-violent drug offenders to rehab beds.

Rehab beds cost less than prison beds. To not subject non-violent offenders to “crime college” teaching them to be criminals, and produces better outcomes for less money.

We need to reopen mental health facilities to treat the mentally ill instead of warehousing them on our streets.

We need to make welfare workfare and have the recipients do charity work such as painting low-income houses, tending to their property, working at a food bank. You'll see the welfare rolls plummet.

We need to create opportunity and educate folks to avail themselves of it. “Make work” doesn’t achieve that. You’ve created a system that doesn’t fix the problem. Make what people as will avail themselves 9f opportunities self-sustaining. Give them the tools to be so.

We need to throw people in jail for crimes instead of letting them loose.

Prisons are a necessity. They aren’t the best and only answer but one of last resort. They should be non-profit, not private industry, and made as self-sustaining as possible. Teaching skills that translate into the outside world when prisoners are released back into society.

WE crated these problems BEACUSE of safety nets.

We correct these problems by creating and maintaining the -roper, effective, safety nets.

 

[Helix]

I prefer Demoncrats for the party in power right now.

51 long days left. The, we will work on restoring the carnage that was Biden/Blinken/Harris of malaise, DEI, contempt for the people, silencing of free speech, spending on every fringe group there is and the notion that diversity is our strength, and all the other stupid slogans used to indoctrinate the masses that are used by the far fringe leftwing kooks.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[BirdinHand]

Your dismissal of this, is you being callous

You infer and read callousness - that’s your interpretation, not my words.

Safety net” needs to define programs that make those falling behind self-sustaining. The crutch that promotes healing then gets out of the way, as opposed to that which limits healing in full so that it becomes a “rest of their lives” support.

There will be those who require a crutch throughout their lives, but making as many fully self-sustaining as possible makes for a greater number to spread those individuals needs between. A shrinking number being helped by an increasing number is sustainable

I agree, getting additional education and training to be able to shift into a different career field or keep up with technology can be cost and/or time prohibitive for many. I’d start there are with funding community colleges 100% for anyone under a certain income threshold - much higher than we currently have. I’d also include grants that help people keep a roof over their heads while getting new skills as long as they met criteria financially and kept certain grades. Including laptops/books, internet connection.

We have CREATED the current problem by not demanding that drug addicts on the streets get OFF the streets and clean. When we do give them a shelter they don't want to abide by rules and trash it or leave back to the streets. We need to RE-criminalize drug use and create more prisons

Nope. Bullshit. We don’t need to criminalize addicts. It doesn’t solve anything and the entire premise is nothing but grandstanding. I’d venture to guess that many addicts actually have untreated underlying medical conditions and/or mental health conditions. If those can be treated, then the addiction can be addressed.

Criminalizing people and packing jails with people who suffer from addiction doesn’t do anything but fund for profit prisons. It doesn’t solve anything

We need to make welfare workfare and have the recipients do charity work such as painting low-income houses, tending to their property, working at a food bank. You'll see the welfare rolls plummet

The majority of people that receive any sort of welfare type benefits DO work. Drop the Reagan era thinking of the “welfare Mom” sitting around and doing nothing but collecting a government check. That’s not reality, it’s propaganda.

 

[Paradoxical]

I can tell you, as having been part of that system, that won’t work.

We need to “sentence” non-violent drug offenders to rehab beds.

Rehab beds cost less than prison beds. To not subject non-violent offenders to “crime college” teaching them to be criminals, and produces better outcomes for less money.

We need to reopen mental health facilities to treat the mentally ill instead of warehousing them on our streets.




We need to create opportunity and educate folks to avail themselves of it. “Make work” doesn’t achieve that. You’ve created a system that doesn’t fix the problem. Make what people as will avail themselves 9f opportunities self-sustaining. Give them the tools to be so.




Prisons are a necessity. They aren’t the best and only answer but one of last resort. They should be non-profit, not private industry, and made as self-sustaining as possible. Teaching skills that translate into the outside world when prisoners are released back into society.



We correct these problems by creating and maintaining the -roper, effective, safety nets.

NOPE. I demonstrated that your solutions just create MORE drug addicts and criminals because there are no consequences and instead rewards for bad behavior. We have had 30 years now of this safety net BS. All it does is salve the guilt of those who aren't where they are.

Do you think the gangs in El Salvador should get safety nets?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

The majority of people that receive any sort of welfare type benefits DO work. Drop the Reagan era thinking of the “welfare Mom” sitting around and doing nothing but collecting a government check. That’s not reality, it’s propaganda.

Think Walmart. Closer to the actual majority.

Hundreds of thousands working forty plus hour weeks put making do,littuecthecqualufyvfirvfoid-stamps, rent and energy assistance, etc.

Seniors on Social Security in Section Eight housing, food and energy assistance, etc.

That’s the face of welfare in America these days.

 

[Paradoxical]

Thanks for sharing.

Any time. Here to educate and inform the Libs of DP.

 

[Paradoxical]

You infer and read callousness - that’s your interpretation, not my words.

I agree, getting additional education and training to be able to shift into a different career field or keep up with technology can be cost and/or time prohibitive for many. I’d start there are with funding community colleges 100% for anyone under a certain income threshold - much higher than we currently have. I’d also include grants that help people keep a roof over their heads while getting new skills as long as they met criteria financially and kept certain grades. Including laptops/books, internet connection.

Nope. Bullshit. We don’t need to criminalize addicts. It doesn’t solve anything and the entire premise is nothing but grandstanding. I’d venture to guess that many addicts actually have untreated underlying medical conditions and/or mental health conditions. If those can be treated, then the addiction can be addressed.

Criminalizing people and packing jails with people who suffer from addiction doesn’t do anything but fund for profit prisons. It doesn’t solve anything

The majority of people that receive any sort of welfare type benefits DO work. Drop the Reagan era thinking of the “welfare Mom” sitting around and doing nothing but collecting a government check. That’s not reality, it’s propaganda.

Your safety hammocks have been around for 30 years now, and we have more crime and drugs and people on the dole than ever before.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Your safety hammocks have been around for 30 years now, and we have more crime and drugs and people on the dole than ever before.

That is false. We have less crime and less people on the dole.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

NOPE. I demonstrated that your solutions just create MORE drug addicts and criminals because there are no consequences and instead rewards for bad behavior. We have had 30 years now of this safety net BS. All it does is salve the guilt of those who aren't where they are.

Your thinking in this is under informed. We’ve had 50 years of trickle down economics. Warehousing our mentally ill on our streets instead of mental wellness facilities. Incarcerating our non-violent drug offenders and turning them into seasoned criminals instead of putting them in cheaper rehab beds.

I really need to take folks like you out into the streets I worked. You need educating.

My way would not only work better, it is a less expensive way to go. It is the CONSERVATIVE MINDED response. Reserves resources (people) at best effect for the money spent.

Do you think the gangs in El Salvador should get safety nets?

MS-13 are career criminals. Conflating them with non-violent drug offenders and the mentally ill and thinking the answers for both problems are similar is evidence you’re under informed on this and require more information to make informed decisions.

 

[Luce]

I was directly addressing your point.... WTF are you talking about?

You did not. You edited half of my post out to make it seem like I was saying something other than I said.

Try to be more honest.

 

[Helix]

Any time. Here to educate and inform the Libs of DP.

I suppose that this could happen for the first time someday. It's also remotely possible that interstellar marmot people will fly here in ships that are lit up like a disco floor and take over earth using only nerf guns and bad jokes.

 

[Luce]

1. YOu are hostile to us and thus any of us would be dumb to support you.

I have never asked for your support. Why do you insist on dishonestly claiming that I have?

2. You do and will continue to happily support policy that harms our interests to benefit others that you like more.

I will do whatever I can to screw up your MAGA. End of story.

 

[Luce]

Any time. Here to educate and inform the Libs of DP.

No need. I think I could be a dumbass without your assistance, if that were necessary.