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Why Differences Between the Gospels Demonstrate Their Reliability...

Daisy

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J. Warner Wallace describes why the differences between Gospel accounts help validate them and demonstrate their reliability. What attributes of reliable eyewitness testimony, as identified in criminal investigations, can be found in the Gospel accounts related to Jesus? Why should we expect differences between reliable accounts and how does the order of testimony effect the way eyewitnesses describe an event? As believers, we need to be ready to help our skeptical friends assess the evidence as described in the book, Forensic Faith: A Homicide Detective Makes the Case for a More Reasonable, Evidential Christian Faith.

 
I was thinking about a game I joined where we had twenty persons sitting around in a circle. The first person whisper a short five word sentence to the second person and so on. By the time the short five word sentence got to person twenty the whole thing was altered...considerably. As pertaining to the Gospel(s) and it's accurate accounts it changes from interpreter to interpreter,some favorable,some not depending on the reader and what he/she believes through interpretation. I'll say most are favorable.

As believers, we need to be ready to help our skeptical friends assess the evidence as described in the book

Well as you can see around here by the very bad attitudes they do not want help when offered. The only cheap defense they have is throw insults. It's all loud barking with no bite. Do we throw insults at them ?
No,but I have to say it's easy to fall in to their traps.
I find it easy to smile while reading their responses. May add the same for those I (may) meet. I think we all agree no one will be converted. They have to find their own way home.

Good post.
 
I was thinking about a game I joined where we had twenty persons sitting around in a circle. The first person whisper a short five word sentence to the second person and so on. By the time the short five word sentence got to person twenty the whole thing was altered...considerably. As pertaining to the Gospel(s) and it's accurate accounts it changes from interpreter to interpreter,some favorable,some not depending on the reader and what he/she believes through interpretation. I'll say most are favorable.



Well as you can see around here by the very bad attitudes they do not want help when offered. The only cheap defense they have is throw insults. It's all loud barking with no bite. Do we throw insults at them ?
No,but I have to say it's easy to fall in to their traps.
I find it easy to smile while reading their responses. May add the same for those I (may) meet. I think we all agree no one will be converted. They have to find their own way home.

Good post.

I'm sorry you can't watch the video, PTF...he really made some good points, from a forensic investigator's POV...like how each eyewitness account offers a different perspective, even though they all witness the same event...they still see different things, depending on their own backgrounds and interests...
 


at best you can say the differences are to be expected and are ok as long as they don't contradict 1 another there's nothing in this video thats shows any of the accounts to be reliably true
 
I'm sorry you can't watch the video, PTF...he really made some good points, from a forensic investigator's POV...like how each eyewitness account offers a different perspective, even though they all witness the same event...they still see different things, depending on their own backgrounds and interests...

Outside of Christian colleges there are universities who teaches the Bible as literature as part of the English(elective) class. My girlfriend took the class as part of her upper level course and found it exciting on hearing the interpretations from her fellow students.Of course you have disagreements but she had to interpret how and why one comes to a decision and to back it up by referring to a Bible passage or two. There are other classes such as the Q'ran(spelling) as literature and other Holy Books. So with the relations to the thread the umbrella is spread wide in covering this topic no mater what Gospel is chosen,its interpretations and ones beliefs.
 

If you read Harry Potter fan fiction, you will see that there are inconsistencies regarding events in Harry's adult life. Surely you would agree that this doesn't mean Harry Potter existed?

The problem is this video has no good evidence demonstrating that a magical all powerful all knowing being had sex with a human girl and she spawned god's son. Can you give us any?
 
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If you read Harry Potter fan fiction, you will see that there are inconsistencies regarding events in Harry's adult life. Surely you would agree that this doesn't mean Harry Potter existed?

The problem is this video has no good evidence demonstrating that a magical all powerful all knowing being had sex with a human girl and she spawned god's son. Can you give us any?

I don't read fiction, least of all demonic fiction...
 
I don't read fiction, least of all demonic fiction...

That's OK, you don't need to, I'm sure you can understand my point. Do you think the inconsistencies in the Harry Potter fan fiction mean Harry Potter actually existed?

Can you give us any evidence regarding the events of the gospels. For example, I would be particularly interested in seeing evidence of the zombie apocalypse discussed in the gospel of Matthew.

“The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After [Jesus’] resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many” (Matthew 27:52-53).

Zombie apocalypses are certainly very rare events today, surely this must have been mentioned by others at the time.
 
If you read Harry Potter fan fiction, you will see that there are inconsistencies regarding events in Harry's adult life. Surely you would agree that this doesn't mean Harry Potter existed?

The problem is this video has no good evidence demonstrating that a magical all powerful all knowing being had sex with a human girl and she spawned god's son. Can you give us any?

I don't read fiction, least of all demonic fiction...

  1. Well, you really should read the Harry Potter books. They're quite good.
  2. That you don't read fiction is itself disturbing.
 
Cool. So some Jesus dude existed in 4-36 CE. What of it?
 
I don't read fiction, least of all demonic fiction...

Demonic??? Demonic??? That is one of the silliest claims you have made. It's fantasy, but claiming a set of books designed for kids is demonic is ludicrous
 
Demonic??? Demonic??? That is one of the silliest claims you have made. It's fantasy, but claiming a set of books designed for kids is demonic is ludicrous

You must not look for omens or practice magic." Leviticus 19:26

"There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller or anyone who inquires of the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you." Deuteronomy 18:10-12

"I will put an end to the sorcery you practice, And no one practicing magic will remain among you" Micah 5:12

Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects," Galatians 5:19,20

But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.” Revelation 21:8
 
You must not look for omens or practice magic." Leviticus 19:26

"There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller or anyone who inquires of the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you." Deuteronomy 18:10-12

"I will put an end to the sorcery you practice, And no one practicing magic will remain among you" Micah 5:12

Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects," Galatians 5:19,20

But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.” Revelation 21:8

That is a horrible translation. If you look at the actual translation, it's actually talking about people who give advice through the communication with the dead... (Well, the Jewish one does). That is what spiritualism is.. using a medium to talk to the dead, and get advice from the dead. And, reading a fantasy book does not have anything to do with that.

That is what happens when you use a bad translation out of context.
 
Cool. So some Jesus dude existed in 4-36 CE. What of it?


Well he was a wealthy individual and was a direct descendant of King David (the kid who killed Goliath).

When he died on the cross he got his own tomb...rather than being dumped in a hole in the ground.

He was quite literally the "King of the Jews". Which upset Herod because he'd bought the crown off the Romans.
 
That is a horrible translation. If you look at the actual translation, it's actually talking about people who give advice through the communication with the dead... (Well, the Jewish one does). That is what spiritualism is.. using a medium to talk to the dead, and get advice from the dead. And, reading a fantasy book does not have anything to do with that.

That is what happens when you use a bad translation out of context.

That's what you always say...lol...proof is in the pudding...you should take note of what Revelation says happens to liars...:2razz:

"'Do not eat anything with blood. Do not practice divination or fortune-telling." Lev. 19:26

"There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire, a diviner, a soothsayer, an enchanter, a sorcerer, a spell-caster, a consulter of ghosts or spirits, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is detestable to ADONAI, and because of these abominations ADONAI your God is driving them out ahead of you." Deut 18:10-12

"I will cut off sorceries from your land; you will no longer have soothsayers." Micah 5:12

"And it is perfectly evident what the old nature does. It expresses itself in sexual immorality, impurity and indecency; involvement with the occult and with drugs; in feuding, fighting, becoming jealous and getting angry; in selfish ambition, factionalism, intrigue" Gal. 5:19,20

"But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars - their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." Rev. 21:8

https://www.biblestudytools.com/cjb/revelation/21.html
 
That's what you always say...lol...proof is in the pudding...you should take note of what Revelation says happens to liars...


But the book of Revelation also says that a third of the stars will be put out and fall to Earth.

Proving that the author of Revelation didn't know what stars were, therefore he cannot be trusted on anything.
 
That's what you always say...lol...proof is in the pudding...you should take note of what Revelation says happens to liars...:2razz:

"'Do not eat anything with blood. Do not practice divination or fortune-telling." Lev. 19:26

"There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire, a diviner, a soothsayer, an enchanter, a sorcerer, a spell-caster, a consulter of ghosts or spirits, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is detestable to ADONAI, and because of these abominations ADONAI your God is driving them out ahead of you." Deut 18:10-12

"I will cut off sorceries from your land; you will no longer have soothsayers." Micah 5:12

"And it is perfectly evident what the old nature does. It expresses itself in sexual immorality, impurity and indecency; involvement with the occult and with drugs; in feuding, fighting, becoming jealous and getting angry; in selfish ambition, factionalism, intrigue" Gal. 5:19,20

"But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars - their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." Rev. 21:8

https://www.biblestudytools.com/cjb/revelation/21.html

Like I said.. bad translations and out of context quotes. The Jewish scripture references are bad translations and out of cultural context. And, since considering how terrible the interpretation of the Jewish scriptures is, that leaves a huge doubt about your interpretation of Revelation.
 
Well he was a wealthy individual and was a direct descendant of King David (the kid who killed Goliath).

When he died on the cross he got his own tomb...rather than being dumped in a hole in the ground.

He was quite literally the "King of the Jews". Which upset Herod because he'd bought the crown off the Romans.

Interesting...so where did his wealth come from, being a lowly carpenter and all? And what does this scripture mean then?

"But Jesus said to him: “Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head.” Matthew 8:20
 
That's what you always say...lol...proof is in the pudding...you should take note of what Revelation says happens to liars...:2razz:

"'Do not eat anything with blood. Do not practice divination or fortune-telling." Lev. 19:26

"There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire, a diviner, a soothsayer, an enchanter, a sorcerer, a spell-caster, a consulter of ghosts or spirits, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is detestable to ADONAI, and because of these abominations ADONAI your God is driving them out ahead of you." Deut 18:10-12

"I will cut off sorceries from your land; you will no longer have soothsayers." Micah 5:12

"And it is perfectly evident what the old nature does. It expresses itself in sexual immorality, impurity and indecency; involvement with the occult and with drugs; in feuding, fighting, becoming jealous and getting angry; in selfish ambition, factionalism, intrigue" Gal. 5:19,20

"But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars - their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." Rev. 21:8

https://www.biblestudytools.com/cjb/revelation/21.html

Like I said.. bad translations and out of context quotes. The Jewish scripture references are bad translations and out of cultural context. And, since considering how terrible the interpretation of the Jewish scriptures is, that leaves a huge doubt about your interpretation of Revelation.

The sorcerer and the soothsayer both use necromancy... using the spirits of the dead. So, you are taking things out context, and not using the true meaning of the words.

From https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9920#showrashi=true&lt=primary

31You shall not turn to [the sorcery of] Ov or Yid'oni; you shall not seek [these and thereby] defile yourselves through them. I am the Lord, your God.
You shall not turn to [the sorcery of]: Ov or Yid’oni. This is a warning against one who practices the sorcery of Ov or Yid’oni. [And what are these forms of sorcery?] One who practices the sorcery of Ov is “Pithom the sorcerer” (see Rashi Deut. 18:11); [he communes with the dead, as it were, by raising the spirit of the dead, which then] speaks from his armpit. [And one who practices the sorcery of] Yid’oni inserts the bone of a creature called Yido’a (see Bartenura, Mishnah Kilayim 8:5) into his mouth, and the bone speaks [from there].-[Torath Kohanim 19:79; Sanh. 65b]
you shall not seek: to occupy yourselves with these [types of sorcery], for if you do occupy yourselves with them, you will become defiled before Me [says God], and I will deem you abominable.
I am the Lord, your God: Know Whom you are exchanging for whom [i.e., you would be exchanging “the Lord, your God” for these futile sorceries]. — [Torath Kohanim 19:79]
 
Interesting...so where did his wealth come from, being a lowly carpenter and all?

According to you he's God's son. Are you saying God, and his son, can't cast a magic spell that produces gold?
 
But the book of Revelation also says that a third of the stars will be put out and fall to Earth.

Proving that the author of Revelation didn't know what stars were, therefore he cannot be trusted on anything.

Revelation is a vision, a representation of something...

A significant number of angels joined Satan’s rebellion. Prior to the Flood, Satan lured at least some of them into having immoral relations with the daughters of men. The Bible reveals this truth by symbolically portraying the dragon as dragging a third of the stars of heaven with him in his fall. (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6; Rev. 12:3, 4)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2018406#h=12:0-13:336
 
According to you he's God's son. Are you saying God, and his son, can't cast a magic spell that produces gold?

Son of man: Or “Son of a human.” This expression occurs about 80 times in the Gospels. Jesus used it to refer to himself, evidently emphasizing that he was truly human, born from a woman, and that he was a fitting human counterpart to Adam, having the power to redeem humankind from sin and death. (Ro 5:12, 14-15) The same expression also identified Jesus as the Messiah, or the Christ.​—Da 7:13, 14;

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/nwtsty/E/2018/40/8#s=20&study=discover
 
Interesting...so where did his wealth come from, being a lowly carpenter and all? And what does this scripture mean then?

"But Jesus said to him: “Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head.” Matthew 8:20


Well since he was the direct descendant of kings, he was a nobleman and would've had wealth.

Who says he was a carpenter ?
One line that's been badly translated ?
The words attributed to Jesus are often metaphorical.

"I will make you a fisher of men"

Jesus was a carpenter or probably more correctly translated as a builder. That doesn't mean he literally got a saw out and fashioned tables and chairs from wood.
It means he was building a following, a popular support.
Maybe a new nation?

And if he was a penniless craftsman, how come he got a nice big tomb? I'm sure the other two guys crucified with him didn't get tombs....or maybe I'm wrong about that. Even the lowest murderer got an individual tomb back then ?
 
But the book of Revelation also says that a third of the stars will be put out and fall to Earth.

Proving that the author of Revelation didn't know what stars were, therefore he cannot be trusted on anything.

The unknown author of Revelation wasn't some sort of soothsayer (oh the irony), but was apparently rather well-versed in ancient Babylonian mysticism (more irony!), and was merely making veiled references to Rome under Domitian. None of that stuff ever came to fruition (was supposed to before the advent of the 2nd century CE).


OM
 
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