Why Canada's economy is showing resilience in the face of U.S. tariffs

[MAGAnificent]

Don't feed it.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Certainly not, I laugh at him and the US because of him.

You appear very triggered.

 

[notquiteright]

Disconnect yourselves from the U.S. teet and watch how fast you go to shit.

Except it's the US sucking on the Candain teat. Already whiskey and tourism has taken a hit in areas very dependent on Canadian business. Our housing costs are going to climb yet again as Canadian lumber goes into many new/remodeled homes. Same with anything using steel or aluminum....
But 'Mericans will sit in their own shit and pretend it's ok as long as them there Canucks suffer as well....

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

You appear very triggered.

Appearances can be deceiving.

I find people voting for a moron who us going to weaken a country entertaining.

Boris Johnson was a clown, but entertaining, Trump is a clown and entertaining.

Which is even more entertaining is the number of people so devoted to such clowns that they will abandon all previous principles in order to keep supporting them

 

[Brusan]

Appearances can be deceiving.

I find people voting for a moron who us going to weaken a country entertaining.

Boris Johnson was a clown, but entertaining, Trump is a clown and entertaining.

Which is even more entertaining is the number of people so devoted to such clowns that they will abandon all previous principles in order to keep supporting them

I think you're giving them the benefit of the doubt by suggesting they possessed "principles" to abandon in the first place.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Appearances can be deceiving.

Like it or not, you appear triggered.

I find people voting for a moron who us going to weaken a country entertaining.

"who us going to weaken"?

Boris Johnson was a clown, but entertaining, Trump is a clown and entertaining.

I am entertained by Trump triggering libruls like you.

Which is even more entertaining is the number of people so devoted to such clowns that they will abandon all previous principles in order to keep supporting them

The libruls voted for and supported a vegetable for four years, then nominated him to run for another four years. I am entertained by your being triggered by the present occupant.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Disconnect yourselves from the U.S. teet and watch how fast you go to shit.

Do you think the US just gives Canada free money? What are you actually talking about?

 

[CANON]

Do you think the US just gives Canada free money? What are you actually talking about?

He doesn't think, that's their (MAGA acolytes) whole schtick. Do as big daddy says, point and they'll attack. No need to know any details which makes the job easy for 'em.

 

[gbg3]

Yeah, however Carney is doing no better than the man-child prime minister that preceded him.

Maybe worse.

Canada felt cocky and entitled - with either his late to the party reaction or his various versions of retaliation. He likely expected the rest of the world would follow the retaliation tactic, but calmer approaches prevailed, and I believe only Canada and China took that retaliation approach.

Now Canada has just been more or less left out of the picture, Carney is (quite awkwardly) justifying his approach by saying Canada pays the smallest tariffs in the world due to USMCA, and Trump appears to have simply moved on from any interest in Canada. I think, any potential deal reached now (and/or next year when USMCA is dissolved or reworked) will be far less advantageous to Canada than it would have otherwise been, due to Carney's approach. He is one leader who did NOT read the room/Trump and has been utterly unsuccessful in negotiation.

 

[Allan]

I believe only Canada and China took that retaliation approach.

Wrong.

Do any MAGAs know anything about the tariffs?

 

[CANON]

Maybe worse.

Canada felt cocky and entitled - with either his late to the party reaction or his various versions of retaliation. He likely expected the rest of the world would follow the retaliation tactic, but calmer approaches prevailed, and I believe only Canada and China took that retaliation approach.

Now Canada has just been more or less left out of the picture, Carney is (quite awkwardly) justifying his approach by saying Canada pays the smallest tariffs in the world due to USMCA, and Trump appears to have simply moved on from any interest in Canada. I think, any potential deal reached now (and/or next year when USMCA is dissolved or reworked) will be far less advantageous to Canada than it would have otherwise been, due to Carney's approach. He is one leader who did NOT read the room/Trump and has been utterly unsuccessful in negotiation.

Or Carney is doing exactly what he said was going to happen, the economic relationship that existed is going to be different moving forward and Canada had to focus to increasing trade within the country and other nations to replace the trade lost with the US.

He knows he has a year to build trade and security relationships outside the US and that is far important than making a deal that means nothing moving forward.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Maybe worse.

Canada felt cocky and entitled - with either his late to the party reaction or his various versions of retaliation. He likely expected the rest of the world would follow the retaliation tactic, but calmer approaches prevailed, and I believe only Canada and China took that retaliation approach.

Now Canada has just been more or less left out of the picture, Carney is (quite awkwardly) justifying his approach by saying Canada pays the smallest tariffs in the world due to USMCA, and Trump appears to have simply moved on from any interest in Canada. I think, any potential deal reached now (and/or next year when USMCA is dissolved or reworked) will be far less advantageous to Canada than it would have otherwise been, due to Carney's approach. He is one leader who did NOT read the room/Trump and has been utterly unsuccessful in negotiation.

Except every time I ask you why tariffs against Canada are necessary, all I seem to get is a big shrug as an answer.

You also treat Trump like he is not an adult with actual agency. Why isn't he responsible for these trade battles? Who started these trade battles? Why is it always Canada's fault, Brazil's fault, Europe's fault, Japan's fault, or India's fault? Does personal responsibility ever apply to Trump? Did Canada, India, Japan or Europe force US companies to ship jobs to Mexico or China, or did US companies do that to raise their stock prices? If the free market were to decide everything, why couldn't companies ship jobs to Mexico or China to save on labor costs? Ultimately, these problems are self-inflicted wounds, its the fault of your ''free market is all'' ideology, not Canada or any other country.

 

[gbg3]

Or Carney is doing exactly what he said was going to happen, the economic relationship that existed is going to be different moving forward and Canada had to focus to increasing trade within the country and other nations to replace the trade lost with the US.

He knows he has a year to build trade and security relationships outside the US and that is far important than making a deal that means nothing moving forward.

Yes, he is focusing on trade within the country and with other nations. But the latter of those two is going to take some time for him to figure out - and, clearly, he doesn't negotiate quickly.

Meanwhile and likely even long term, it's probably in his and Canada's best interest to maintain at least some working relationship with the U.S. and with Trump. That relationship is not off to a good start and, very frankly, these are not two equal partners. Canada benefits considerably by exporting to the U.S. because we're a quite sizable customer in close/easy proximity.

As far as a "deal that means nothing", that narrative has gotten overly dramatic and a bit silly - kind of like the narrative that the U.S. was going to take Canada by force narrative did. Canada has certainly shown they can be more dramatic and emotional than most every other country we've been talking/negotiating with. Carney has probably done the worst job of any leader at getting a feel for negotiating or working with Trump.

 

[gbg3]

Except every time I ask you why tariffs against Canada are necessary, all I seem to get is a big shrug as an answer.

You also treat Trump like he is not an adult with actual agency. Why isn't he responsible for these trade battles? Who started these trade battles? Why is it always Canada's fault, Brazil's fault, Europe's fault, Japan's fault, or India's fault? Does personal responsibility ever apply to Trump? Did Canada, India, Japan or Europe force US companies to ship jobs to Mexico or China, or did US companies do that to raise their stock prices? If the free market were to decide everything, why couldn't companies ship jobs to Mexico or China to save on labor costs? Ultimately, these problems are self-inflicted wounds, its the fault of your ''free market is all'' ideology, not Canada or any other country.

Trump is executing his plan for the U.S. and he's the leader of the U.S., so your question is irrelevant. Canada and other countries don't choose what U.S. leaders decide is "necessary" or advantageous for the U.S. Nor does the U.S. have any say in what Canada decides is "necessary" for Canada. The only option another country has is whether or not to engage and how they will respond or engage. It's not up to Canada to decide what is or isn't necessary for the U.S.

Trump is responsible for these trade situations (what you call "battles" and I'll call changes/deals). He started them. I don't think anyone is at "fault" because I don't think it's a fault situation. It's a decision followed by a negotiation/response.

 

[gbg3]

It looks like Canada is now looking for a new approach with the U.S. and is heading to Mexico to see what they might learn, as well as strengthening ties with Mexico.

MSN

 

[Brusan]

The facts are very different from your opinions.

The “First Ministers” conference yielded immediate benefits, with the staunchest conservative in the room lauding Carney’s “fresh” and open approach. Interprovincial barriers are already lessening.

A trade deal with the U.S. is/was in the best interests of BOTH countries until your doofus decided to abrogate the deal he himself bragged as being the “biggliest bestest” of all deals. His silliness is having a far worse effect on the U.S. due to that very size comparison you think of as your “big stick”.

The U.S. has claimed energy independence only due to the Canadian crude it was reliably getting via NAFTA. The U.S. is now hitting record amounts of importing that crude.

Trump himself is exempting large swaths of Canadian exports to the U.S. citing CUSMA. All can easily conclude the idiot claiming Canada has nothing the U.S. needs or wants is speaking out of both sides of his lying mealy mouth. Trusting Trump to honour any agreement has bankrupted many stupid Americans.

Trouble is that Trump’s tariffs violate both the terms of CUSMA and the WTO. That allows both Canada and Mexico the freedom to middle finger Trump as most other countries are still doing.

The trade deals are out there with many countries concluding they’ve got huge opportunities now to negotiate deals with reliable and more “Honourable” partners rather than be dictated to by the U.S.

The ramifications to the U.S. are just beginning to be felt by the retards that voted for him. Every day brings another dose of reality to the MAGASsphere with the recent jobs report being indicative of what’s to come for a country of 350 million with more of you already living in poverty than Canada has population.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Trump is executing his plan for the U.S. and he's the leader of the U.S., so your question is irrelevant. Canada and other countries don't choose what U.S. leaders decide is "necessary" or advantageous for the U.S. Nor does the U.S. have any say in what Canada decides is "necessary" for Canada. The only option another country has is whether or not to engage and how they will respond or engage. It's not up to Canada to decide what is or isn't necessary for the U.S.

So do you think the US should use the fact it is more powerful than Canada to ensure it's interests override Canada's interests? The US has been promoting economic integration with Canada since the 60s, is Trump trying weaponize that integration against Canada or is the US just trying to pull the rug out from under Canada with little to no warning?

Trump is responsible for these trade situations (what you call "battles" and I'll call changes/deals). He started them. I don't think anyone is at "fault" because I don't think it's a fault situation. It's a decision followed by a negotiation/response.

I think trying to nickel and dime your allies may seem like a good idea in the short term, but in the long run these countries be less likely to help the US in the future. Enjoy the collapse of your tourism industry.

Also why does Canada get tariffs and the companies that actually moved US jobs to Mexico or China get a giant tax break?

 

[Brusan]

So do you think the US should use the fact it is more powerful than Canada to ensure it's interests override Canada's interests? The US has been promoting economic integration with Canada since the 60s, is Trump trying weaponize that integration against Canada or is the US just trying to pull the rug out from under Canada with little to no warning?


I think trying to nickel and dime your allies may seem like a good idea in the short term, but in the long run these countries be less likely to help the US in the future. Enjoy the collapse of your tourism industry.

Also why does Canada get tariffs and the companies that actually moved US jobs to Mexico or China get a giant tax break?

In his teeny tiny empty brain pod he’s formed the idea he can bankrupt Canada into submission gaining full control over all its resources that will enable the U.S. to actually become the independent bully he now portrays it to be.

He knows the U.S. DESPERATELY needs Canada’s oil, LNG, fresh water, lumber, minerals right now to continue its theatrical flexing on the world stage. He is slowly but surely backing himself into a bottomless pit of his own making with many countries deciding to wait for the collapse that’s all but certain now.

Trump is running out of options with his ratings tanking and even his MAGAS starting to show buyer’s remorse. Town halls were the just the first symptom. Now azzholes like Abbot are resorting to thuggery that will only serve to open everyone’s eyes to their constitution being rendered worthless while their freedoms get trampled.

 

[CANON]

Yes, he is focusing on trade within the country and with other nations. But the latter of those two is going to take some time for him to figure out - and, clearly, he doesn't negotiate quickly.

Meanwhile and likely even long term, it's probably in his and Canada's best interest to maintain at least some working relationship with the U.S. and with Trump. That relationship is not off to a good start and, very frankly, these are not two equal partners. Canada benefits considerably by exporting to the U.S. because we're a quite sizable customer in close/easy proximity.

As far as a "deal that means nothing", that narrative has gotten overly dramatic and a bit silly - kind of like the narrative that the U.S. was going to take Canada by force narrative did. Canada has certainly shown they can be more dramatic and emotional than most every other country we've been talking/negotiating with. Carney has probably done the worst job of any leader at getting a feel for negotiating or working with Trump.

I agree that it would be in both countries best interests to maintain some sort of working relationship.

Getting a deal on the current tariffs does mean nothing and that is not overly dramatic at all, it's simply the reality of how relationships with tRump work. Can you explain what you think the benefit to Canada would be on making a deal regarding the current tariffs vs Canada focusing on building trade elsewhere before CUSMA is opened for review?

Compare what is traded between the two countries and I don't believe that the US has Canada over a barrel. If the US stopped importing all Canadian energy, it's going to cause economic destruction to both countries, so how likely is it to happen? The US can certainly switch crude imports from Canada to Mexico or Venezuela, because the US needs heavy crude, but what does it gain by doing so? The US could end imports of all electricity from Canada, but the cost and timeframe to do so means that's unlikely to happen.

Look at auto production and what Canada produces vs consumes, would the US want to risk having Canada rescind the tariffs on Chinese vehicles that was put into place in solidarity with the US to protect the North American auto market? If the US wants to eliminate Canada from the auto manufacturing market, why wouldn't Canada remove the tariffs and put them on US built autos instead? Does the US want to risk losing their largest export market for autos?

We could compare trade ad infinitum to understand why ending trade is just not going to happen. I'll end with a short from our last Conservative prime minister and his thoughts on trade with the US:

 

[gbg3]

Can you explain what you think the benefit to Canada would be on making a deal regarding the current tariffs vs Canada focusing on building trade elsewhere before CUSMA is opened for review?

I don't think these two things are or need to be mutually exclusive.

I absolutely think it makes sense for Canada to build trade elsewhere. If Canada is confident in their timely ability to accomplish that, such that it makes sense for them to just leave things as they are right now with the current tariffs, that would be a fine approach. I think it would be wise for them to assume USMCA (sorry, the "CUSMA" thing is comical to me and makes me smile every time I see it) will dissolve or be significantly altered, but I imagine they are already under that assumption.

Maybe Canada doesn't need to keep talking to the U.S. at all and it's just a waste of time for both countries.

 

[Callen]

Maybe Canada doesn't need to keep talking to the U.S. at all and it's just a waste of time for both countries

Nonsense, we absolutely need a good trading relationship with the US. Carney has never said otherwise and is working hard to accomplish that to the mutual benefit of both countries.

 

[gbg3]

Nonsense, we absolutely need a good trading relationship with the US. Carney has never said otherwise and is working hard to accomplish that to the mutual benefit of both countries.

Well, you clearly have your opinion, but that is unrelated to the specific question Canon posed - the question I quoted and addressed.

Can you explain what you think the benefit to Canada would be on making a deal regarding the current tariffs vs Canada focusing on building trade elsewhere before CUSMA is opened for review?

 

[Yes_Minister]

I don't think these two things are or need to be mutually exclusive.

I absolutely think it makes sense for Canada to build trade elsewhere. If Canada is confident in their timely ability to accomplish that, such that it makes sense for them to just leave things as they are right now with the current tariffs, that would be a fine approach. I think it would be wise for them to assume USMCA (sorry, the "CUSMA" thing is comical to me and makes me smile every time I see it) will dissolve or be significantly altered, but I imagine they are already under that assumption.

Maybe Canada doesn't need to keep talking to the U.S. at all and it's just a waste of time for both countries.

The problem is you hardly ever seem to consider logistics when answering these questions. Canada traded mostly with the US was due to logistics, the US is only country Canada borders with. Deeper trade relationships with other countries would take a lot work and money, but the US being unreasonable means we may have to put the work and money into that effort. Stephen Harper said if he was asked a year ago, he would have advised deeper trade ties with the US, now he says Canada has to look to other markets and Harper is a pro-American conservative.


But again, I keep on asking why tariffs against Canada are necessary and I never get an articulate answer.

 

[Brusan]

Disconnect yourselves from the U.S. teet and watch how fast you go to shit.

If we're the triggered ones, why then the angry "triggered" post that started all the nonsense from the nether region beneath us?

Do you sorry lot have a rotating "trigger" definition to suit your triggered missteps? It's only "triggered" if it originates from other than MAGAmurika?

 

[Callen]

Well, you clearly have your opinion, but that is unrelated to the specific question Canon posed - the question I quoted and addressed.

The statement of yours that I quoted is nonsense regardless of why you made it.