Why building codes should be abolished

[RF667799]

Rarely, but in this case, it's appropriate.

Why? Are the blue team opposed to building codes?

 

[multivita-man]

Why? Are the blue team opposed to building codes?

Nah, libertardians lean right, not left.

 

[RF667799]

Nah, libertardians lean right, not left.

You seem to just use terms haphazardly and pepper that with name calling.

See ya.

 

[aociswundumho]

It does so, but NOT in the building code process.

Cheap houses are low quality houses, and building codes prohibit low quality, cheap housing from being built.

No, that's not a good thing. Outlawing hamburger doesn't mean everyone eats steak.

 

[roughdraft274]

Over half of the nation's housing stock is over 50 years old. Do all of you support forcing these homeowners to upgrade their "unsafe" homes to comply with the current building code?

Just because the older homes don't meet the new codes, that doesn't mean we shouldn't have the new codes. You are sidestepping.

There isn't a single first world nation that doesn't have building codes. I think it is worth quibbling over certain codes, but the idea that we don't them is one of the dumbest things I've heard on these forums.

 

[aociswundumho]

And as this thread points out, there is currently a great demand for a paternalistic entity that tells everyone what to do.

I know. It's sickening.

One thing worth remarking on, is that most of the examples given of bad things that would happen without building codes, are things that currently happen with building codes.

For them, that always means even more state control is needed.

 

[roughdraft274]

Cheap houses are low quality houses, and building codes prohibit low quality, cheap housing from being built.

No, that's not a good thing. Outlawing hamburger doesn't mean everyone eats steak.

Very little of the costs of housing are due to building codes. Land costs have been rising, people are expecting much higher quality finishings such as granite countertops , hard wood floors and more decorative flourishing's etc. The idea that if e would simply allow people to build houses with no insulation then housing costs would magically go down is insane.

 

[roughdraft274]

One thing worth remarking on, is that most of the examples given of bad things that would happen without building codes, are things that currently happen with building codes.

When I hear stuff like this I have to wonder if you are just trolling or if you are serious.

 

[aociswundumho]

There is a fallacy in your question. The existing home more than likely met the code at the time it was built.

That's irrelevant, because the main argument in this thread against getting rid of building codes is that the homes would be "unsafe", and people should not be allowed to live in an "unsafe" home.

Many city/towns require that for certain remodeling projects the home would have to be brought up to current standards.

Yes, now explain to me who benefits from forcing the homeowner to bring his home up to current standards. Be specific.

 

[Lursa]

Cheap houses are low quality houses, and building codes prohibit low quality, cheap housing from being built.

No, that's not a good thing. Outlawing hamburger doesn't mean everyone eats steak.

How and why would you find "cheap" houses that were not low quality? (Including poor safety quality) Perhaps very small ones, I'll concede that.

Can sellers and landlords charge what they want? If people choose cheaper...that's their choice, right?

 

[RF667799]

When I hear stuff like this I have to wonder if you are just trolling or if you are serious.

What I said isn't true? Wouldn't it be more useful to point out that it isn't true, rather than immediately attack me personally?

 

[aociswundumho]

Very little of the costs of housing are due to building codes.

You couldn't be more wrong. I'll be starting another thread on this subject and I will provide a mountain of evidence.

 

[Gordy327]

You couldn't be more wrong. I'll be starting another thread on this subject and I will provide a mountain of evidence.

Oh, that should be good >sarc<

 

[Airyaman]

Very little of the costs of housing are due to building codes. Land costs have been rising, people are expecting much higher quality finishings such as granite countertops , hard wood floors and more decorative flourishing's etc. The idea that if e would simply allow people to build houses with no insulation then housing costs would magically go down is insane.

You couldn't be more wrong. I'll be starting another thread on this subject and I will provide a mountain of evidence.

It really depends. Some municipalities will require multiple permits to be pulled over the course of a building being constructed and then inspect each job the permits are pulled for. The former means fees for each permit, and the latter could be extra hourly costs for workers to wait for the inspection and subsequently correct items that are violations of codes. These permits can be costly in some places but as little as $20 in others. It really depends on the area.

I live outside of any city limits. I don't have to pull permits for anything or get anything inspected if I wanted to build where I am. But I have another house in a city, and I'm supposed to pull permits when I do certain jobs. Since I'm the homeowner and do almost all of my own work I stopped getting permits long ago because the local officials only really care about contractors. Still, I always follow code at the least on everything I do so when I sell the house, it will get clean home inspections.

 

[aociswundumho]

Still, I always follow code at the least on everything I do so when I sell the house, it will get clean home inspections.

In other words, the market is making it worth your while to do good work. That's evidence for my side of the argument.

 

[RF667799]

Maybe they should allow for houses built to '70s codes that are safe enough for poorer people to purchase and live in.

 

[Airyaman]

In other words, the market is making it worth your while to do good work. That's evidence for my side of the argument.

Yes and no. The house I am currently remodeling in the city had a home inspection by a supposedly reputable inspector and he missed so much stuff it has cost me months of labor and $1000s of extra dollars, and that's doing all the work myself. Not all home inspectors are good.

 

[rahl]

Libertarian threads are hilarious lol

 

[aociswundumho]

Yes and no. The house I am currently remodeling in the city had a home inspection by a supposedly reputable inspector and he missed so much stuff it has cost me months of labor and $1000s of extra dollars, and that's doing all the work myself. Not all home inspectors are good.

Of course not all home inspectors are good. You could say the exact same thing about any profession.

However you don't know how good the inspector will be when your house - and your work - gets inspected. If you're smart (and you are), you'll assume the inspector will be competent, and therefore you will do good work. The market aligns the incentives correctly, with no government goons needed at all.

 

[rahl]

Of course not all home inspectors are good. You could say the exact same thing about any profession.

However you don't know how good the inspector will be when your house - and your work - gets inspected. If you're smart (and you are), you'll assume the inspector will be competent, and therefore you will do good work. The market aligns the incentives correctly, with no government goons needed at all.

Where has this ever worked? Just provide single large civilization like ours that hasn’t had a govnt. Just one.

 

[Airyaman]

Of course not all home inspectors are good. You could say the exact same thing about any profession.

However you don't know how good the inspector will be when your house - and your work - gets inspected. If you're smart (and you are), you'll assume the inspector will be competent, and therefore you will do good work. The market aligns the incentives correctly, with no government goons needed at all.

Do you know what home inspectors use to evaluate homes?

Building codes.

 

[RF667799]

Do you know what home inspectors use to evaluate homes?

Building codes.

Years ago, I built septic systems. I worked for a contractor, and built the systems under authority of his license. The inspector was mostly interested in whether the check for the permit and inspection fee was on site, rather than anything specific to the installation of the system. Sometimes he would ask something off hand, and would be satisfied with whatever I answered. Then he would drive away with the check.

 

[Airyaman]

Years ago, I built septic systems. I worked for a contractor, and built the systems under authority of his license. The inspector was mostly interested in whether the check for the permit and inspection fee was on site, rather than anything specific to the installation of the system. Sometimes he would ask something off hand, and would be satisfied with whatever I answered. Then he would drive away with the check.

Yeah, there are bad government inspectors just like there are bad employees in almost every job.

 

[Lisa]

But they are prohibited from choosing lower.

Less insulation cost much more in energy bills and comfort over the life of the structure, so why would you want to use less insulation?

 

[aociswundumho]

Do you know what home inspectors use to evaluate homes?

Building codes.

For the bazillionth time, I have nothing against building codes per se. I follow them myself. I'm only against mandating them, because they don't make anyone better off, as outlined in the OP.

Even in ancapistan, building standards would exist. They would just be voluntary.