• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why are you a theist?


Behemoth is an animal of the modern natural world, most often the hippopotamus (e.g. in Russian where the word "begemot" refers more often to hippopotamus rather than the Biblical animal), although the elephant and water buffalo could also be candidates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behem...an animal of,buffalo could also be candidates.


(Be·heʹmoth).

The designation “Behemoth,” appearing at Job 40:15, has been variously viewed as (1) a derivative of an Egyptian word for “water ox,” (2) a word possibly of Assyrian origin meaning “monster,” and (3) an intensified plural of the Hebrew word behe·mahʹ (beast; domestic animal) that is understood to denote “great beast” or “huge beast.” In the Greek Septuagint the word the·riʹa (wild beasts) translates the Hebrew behe·mohthʹ. Evidently, though, a single animal is meant, as is indicated by the fact that the description given of Behemoth is not that of several creatures but of only one, generally considered to be the hippopotamus (Hippopotamus amphibius). In fact, a number of Bible translations (AT, La, Ro, NW, JB, RS) use the word “hippopotamus” in the main text or in footnotes to identify the creature referred to by God.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000619
 
If man cannot create biological life then nature couldn't have created it
Man can't create a hurricane either. Doesn't mean God created hurricanes.
If life only exists on this planet (and I believe it does) that would be proof positive of unique CREATION and not a natural byproduct the is comprised of "natural" evolution.
Isaac Asimov proved mathematically that intelligent life must exist elsewhere in the universe.
 
God's Word doesn't leave anything to chance: Book of Job Chapters 40 verses 15-24 and Chapter 41 verses
15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Job Chapter 41 verses 1-34
41 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?

4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?

6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?

7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?

8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.

9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?

10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?

11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.

12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.

13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?

14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.

15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.

17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.

23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.

30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
Why do whales have lungs? And finger bones encased in flippers? Intelligent design?
 
The description of the Behemoth and the Leviathan. You do realize that the term dinosaur didn't exist until 1841. Haddonfield, NJ had the first reticulated --- please see (but again you will have to do some reading): https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/11155

A large animal that sounds like a mythical creature who breathes fire does not mean dinosaur. Dinosaurs did not breath fire.
 
If man cannot create biological life then nature couldn't have created it

If life only exists on this planet (and I believe it does) that would be proof positive of unique CREATION and not a natural byproduct the is comprised of "natural" evolution.

Man couldn’t create lightning for most of human history. Does that mean nature couldn’t create lightning?
 

Behemoth is an animal of the modern natural world, most often the hippopotamus (e.g. in Russian where the word "begemot" refers more often to hippopotamus rather than the Biblical animal), although the elephant and water buffalo could also be candidates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth#:~:text=Behemoth is an animal of,buffalo could also be candidates.


(Be·heʹmoth).

The designation “Behemoth,” appearing at Job 40:15, has been variously viewed as (1) a derivative of an Egyptian word for “water ox,” (2) a word possibly of Assyrian origin meaning “monster,” and (3) an intensified plural of the Hebrew word behe·mahʹ (beast; domestic animal) that is understood to denote “great beast” or “huge beast.” In the Greek Septuagint the word the·riʹa (wild beasts) translates the Hebrew behe·mohthʹ. Evidently, though, a single animal is meant, as is indicated by the fact that the description given of Behemoth is not that of several creatures but of only one, generally considered to be the hippopotamus (Hippopotamus amphibius). In fact, a number of Bible translations (AT, La, Ro, NW, JB, RS) use the word “hippopotamus” in the main text or in footnotes to identify the creature referred to by God.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000619
You should read the portion from JOB describing the Behemoth. A hippo certainly does not have a tail like the one described for starters...
 
A large animal that sounds like a mythical creature who breathes fire does not mean dinosaur. Dinosaurs did not breath fire.
Have you ever seen a live dinosaur? Do you know that there are beetles today who shoot hot liquid discriminately from their rear? and perhaps you may wish to sider this:

Now there is another simple very plausible theory. Perhaps what was perceived by men as fire was a condensation cloud from their breath. It would be like breathing out on a cool day and one can see one's breath. Imagine the force and volume of a dinosaur's breath and how warm it might be. would it appear as smoke? I would say so...
 
You should read the portion from JOB describing the Behemoth. A hippo certainly does not have a tail like the one described for starters...
Since the tail of a hippopotamus is fairly short, measuring about 46 to 51 cm (18 to 20 in.), this is likely to be understood as meaning that the animal can set its thick tail rigidly upright or swing it about like a tree.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000619

Behemoth, in the Old Testament, a powerful, grass-eating animal whose “bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like bars of iron” (Job 40:18). Among various Jewish legends, one relates that the righteous will witness a spectacular battle between Behemoth and Leviathan in the messianic era and later feast upon their flesh. Some sources identify Behemoth, who dwells in the marsh and is not frightened by the turbulent river Jordan, as a hippopotamus and Leviathan as a crocodile, whale, or snake.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Behemoth
 
Since the tail of a hippopotamus is fairly short, measuring about 46 to 51 cm (18 to 20 in.), this is likely to be understood as meaning that the animal can set its thick tail rigidly upright or swing it about like a tree.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000619

He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. A cedar is a very large tree.
Behemoth, in the Old Testament, a powerful, grass-eating animal whose “bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like bars of iron” (Job 40:18). Among various Jewish legends, one relates that the righteous will witness a spectacular battle between Behemoth and Leviathan in the messianic era and later feast upon their flesh. Some sources identify Behemoth, who dwells in the marsh and is not frightened by the turbulent river Jordan, as a hippopotamus and Leviathan as a crocodile, whale, or snake.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Behemoth
 
Do you know that there are beetles today who shoot hot liquid discriminately from their rear?

Isn’t evolution wonderful? You really don’t think that a “God” would sit around thinking up stuff like this. Surely not!?
 
Example two. A dead body is discovered. Bodies expire for one of two reasons. Unintended natural causes or intentional causes such as murder

Ah yes, but by YOUR standards of inserting entities of imagination (“Creator”) as “reasons”, there could be a THIRD possibility, namely that the person was killed by invisible zombies.
There, see how easy it is to make up imaginary entities and insert them into the conversation? Now do you really continue to insist that an invisible zombie (“God/Creator”) could have been the cause of the universe and eventual life?
 
You should read the portion from JOB describing the Behemoth. A hippo certainly does not have a tail like the one described for starters...
Ummm—it’s just another FANTASY of the Bible. You surely can’t believe everything the Bible says—can you???????
 
Have you ever seen a live dinosaur? Do you know that there are beetles today who shoot hot liquid discriminately from their rear?

Now there is another simple very plausible theory. Perhaps what was perceived by men as fire was a condensation cloud from their breath. It would be like breathing out on a cool day and one can see one's breath. Imagine the force and volume of a dinosaur's breath and how warm it might be. would it appear as smoke? I would say so...

Fair enough. Only problem is that with vague descriptions like that you can fit almost anything to claim that's what was "meant". In any case, I'll stick with science, and you'll clearly stick with... your version of God.
 
If man cannot create biological life then nature couldn't have created it

No.

The main reason we're the dominant species on the planet is that we can learn and grow over multiple generations...
This means that even if we have not yet, we could in future.
Depending how narrowly you define it, we can and have already created biological life.

There is no logical reason to assume that nature can't do things if we can't, and in fact we have multiple examples historically and currently of naturally occurring things we did not then understand and/or do not yet understand.
 
No.

The main reason we're the dominant species on the planet is that we can learn and grow over multiple generations...
This means that even if we have not yet, we could in future.
Depending how narrowly you define it, we can and have already created biological life.
The reason we're the dominant living thing on the planet is because we were created in GOD's image and HE placed the fear of us in the other living things.
There is no logical reason to assume that nature can't do things if we can't, and in fact we have multiple examples historically and currently of naturally occurring things we did not then understand and/or do not yet understand.
There is no logical reason to assume that if man is a mere product of nature and chance that he couldn't recreate it applying his abilities. However, since I feel that GOD originally created everything including life --- man isn't going to be able to compete with that.
 
The reason we're the dominant living thing on the planet is because we were created in GOD's image and HE placed the fear of us in the other living things.

There is no logical reason to assume that if man is a mere product of nature and chance that he couldn't recreate it applying his abilities. However, since I feel that GOD originally created everything including life --- man isn't going to be able to compete with that.
Well if God created nature and Man can't compete with god, then it follows that there are probably a ton of things nature does which we can't replicate
 
Well if God created nature and Man can't compete with god, then it follows that there are probably a ton of things nature does which we can't replicate
So there's at least one proof of GOD. GOD created life and not nature. Man will not be able to created biological life.
 
I consider myself a philosophical theist.

Philosophical theism is the belief that the Supreme Being exists (or must exist) independent of the teaching or revelation of any particular religion.[1] It represents belief in God entirely without doctrine, except for that which can be discerned by reason and the contemplation of natural laws. Some philosophical theists are persuaded of God's existence by philosophical arguments, while others consider themselves to have a religious faith that need not be, or could not be, supported by rational argument.

I'm in my 60's and over my life time I've gone from atheist, to very religious and then to a philosophical theist. Why not an atheist? Many atheists claim atheism isn't a belief, its just a disbelief. That's not actually true. Theism is the belief the universe was intentionally caused to exist for intelligent humans to exist by a Creator. Atheism is the positive belief no agent had to intentionally cause the universe and human life to exist. That's what atheism means, not or without God. For me to become an intellectually satisfied atheist, I would have to be convinced or at least given good reason or evidence to think mindless natural forces could cause the universe and all the conditions necessary for life to exist without any plan or intent to do so. The best 'non-god' explanation of how natural forces obtained all the conditions is because this is one of an infinitude of universes. Yet they acknowledge there is no direct evidence there are other universes.

Secondly almost universally all atheists subscribe to the doctrine there is no evidence of a Creator. Of course there is. The universe is what theist's claim the Creator created. Intelligent life is what theists claim the Creator caused to exist. Those facts don't just make the existence of a Creator possible, they are necessary for the claim to be true.

Of course the thread is open to atheists who wish to convince me the error of my thinking.

My belief in a higher form that is the basis of the beginning and will be of its end is founded in the arch that is scientific discovery, the order that exists even in what appears to be chaos, and the observation that such order must have a fountain head, as all natural order seems to have when push comes to shove.

So when people ask as you have hear i answer, "Because E = mc2."
 
Man can't create a hurricane either. Doesn't mean God created hurricanes.
JESUS calmed storms. I believe HE is GOD.
Isaac Asimov proved mathematically that intelligent life must exist elsewhere in the universe.
One needs ALL the data and not the imagined sort...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom