Why abortion only?

[quip]

Isn't saving every potential victim of gun violence worth any cost? The rest of the english speaking world thinks it is.

"Any"?
No.
Extremists seems to relish such all-encompassing terms. But there is a rational answer hidden within that "any". What that may entail is beyond my pay grade.

 

[nota bene]

OK so your organization didn't grow out of Coalition for Life founded by Burnett and Crane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Coalition_of_Life_Activists
You'll have to admit; their demise in 2003 coincides with your founding 2004 and your name is the same. Why would you use the same name??


Every woman that encounters the 40Days for Life pray-ers knows exactly what those people are doing ... declaring the woman guilty. I do not see much difference in these two events

View attachment 67451968View attachment 67451970

What a roundabout way of admitting that you were mistaken. But FYI, the timing of the creation of the Coalition for Life had nothing to do with anything but the local issue. Planned Parenthood had had a clinic for many, many years here. It was when they decided to relocate, build a new building, and offer abortions that the community organized to protest.

I'm sorry that you are unable to see the difference...but there is one. Notice how in your second picture women are finger-pointingly being accused. So very many women are among those who stand and pray, and many of them are mothers themselves. I don't know anybody who is sitting in judgment of women seeking an abortion...or praying "against" them either. Rather, they are hoping that even at the last minute and for their own sakes, women will turn back. I won't waste your time providing links about how abortion hurts women; you can do this for yourself if ever you are curious.

 

[Lycanthrope]

The conservative states have several proven projects and programs they can use reduce abortions. They could:
*put sex-ed programs into schools that have proven their effectiveness at reducing unplanned teen pregnancy and subsequent abortions.
*stop offering abstinence only sex-ed in schools since it has proven to increase teen pregnancy
*make condoms available free at schools, bars, churches, concerts, etc.
*build more reproductive health clinics offering counseling
*provide all women with highly effective long acting reversible contraceptives like hormone treatments or IUDs
*institute paid maternity leave and guaranteed return to same job same wages
* combinations of the above

Who can explain why conservative state have not tried any of the above actions. The only program they have installed is the one that has been proven to not reduce abortion: banning and making providers criminals.

Because communism and immorality. Women should heed the Bible and keep their legs crossed around men, and the there's no problem.

(right wing thinking)

 

[Liberal7360]

The conservative states have several proven projects and programs they can use reduce abortions. They could:
*put sex-ed programs into schools that have proven their effectiveness at reducing unplanned teen pregnancy and subsequent abortions.
*stop offering abstinence only sex-ed in schools since it has proven to increase teen pregnancy
*make condoms available free at schools, bars, churches, concerts, etc.
*build more reproductive health clinics offering counseling
*provide all women with highly effective long acting reversible contraceptives like hormone treatments or IUDs
*institute paid maternity leave and guaranteed return to same job same wages
* combinations of the above

Who can explain why conservative state have not tried any of the above actions. The only program they have installed is the one that has been proven to not reduce abortion: banning and making providers criminals.

You are under the misunderstanding that the anti choice people want to prevent unplanned pregnancies.

They want to cause unplanned pregnancies.

The fact that they won't teach proper sex ed but the abstinence only that is already proven to cause a lot of unplanned pregnancies and a lot of STDs to be spread, is a HUGE red flag that the anti choice people want to cause as many unplanned pregnancies as possible. Especially in young teenage girls.

Think about this, they have been going after planned parenthood for decades? Abortion is only 3% of what they do.

Their primary service is to prevent unplanned pregnancies and abortions with proper birth control. For many, especially young teenagers, planned parenthood is the only place they can get birth control.

So what is the logic to close the one place that actually prevents abortions and unplanned pregnancies?

The ONLY reason to close planned parenthood is to stop women from being able to get contraception.

Why would they do that if they wanted to prevent unplanned pregnancies?

They wouldn't.

They would if they want to cause more unplanned pregnancies.

You ask why the anti choice people won't the logical things you listed.

The reason for that is they want to cause as many unplanned pregnancies as possible.

That is the only logical explanation for why they want to close planned parenthood and won't do the things you listed.

 

[Liberal7360]

Then why have we never seen either of you advocate for the Colorado Initiative that cut abortions by 40% by making sure all women had affordable access to IUD's and hormone injections or implants. The program not only reduced abortions they paid for the program and saved the state upwards of $70,000,000. Tell us what is wrong with a program like that? Why aren't the pro-life advocates going all out for this program?

You have to look at it logically.

The reason why they don't want a program like that is because it is very effective in preventing unplanned pregnancies.

They are using money as an excuse to not do the right things that will decrease unplanned pregnancies.

You are under the mistake that they want to prevent unplanned pregnancies.

They don't. They want to cause as many as possible then deny the female the right to an abortion.

When you realize the anti choice's goal isn't to prevent unplanned pregnancies and abortion, it's too cause as many unplanned pregnancies as possible, their actions make a lot of sense.

 

[Lursa]

...or praying "against" them either. Rather, they are hoping that even at the last minute and for their own sakes, women will turn back. I won't waste your time providing links about how abortion hurts women; you can do this for yourself if ever you are curious.

??? The prayer to 'turn back' is 'against' them. They've made the best decision they can...and in the prayer people's opinions (judgement) that decision is wrong...so they want her to turn back. Good lord your posts are crafted like a politician's. I make that as a criticism and an observation but consider it very relevant to the discussion...calling it out to be transparent.

As for the harm done to some women. Maybe, sure. We all make tough decisions in life, that doesnt mean they're the wrong decisions. Like when I wrote about divorce earlier...painful, stressful, terrible decision for many. And yet, men and women do in the belief that it is the best thing for their families, their lives, their futures. And in the long run, it usually is.

In all studies that dont come from religious groups, they all show that the great majority of women do not regret having abortions nor are 'harmed' by them.

 

[weaver2]

What a roundabout way of admitting that you were mistaken.

says the master of" roundabout".

I'm sorry that you are unable to see the difference...but there is one. Notice how in your second picture women are finger-pointingly being accused. So very many women are among those who stand and pray, and many of them are mothers themselves. I don't know anybody who is sitting in judgment of women seeking an abortion...or praying "against" them either. Rather, they are hoping that even at the last minute and for their own sakes, women will turn back. I won't waste your time providing links about how abortion hurts women; you can do this for yourself if ever you are curious.

Oh I can see the difference. The first picture is about people who are telling God that the woman is sinning. The second group has already prayed to God and God has told them to punish the woman because she has sinned. Both are hunting down sinners in order to ingratiate themselves into God's approval. Calling women bitches or witches is helping God.

 

[nota bene]

says the master of" roundabout".

Oh I can see the difference. The first picture is about people who are telling God that the woman is sinning. The second group has already prayed to God and God has told them to punish the woman because she has sinned. Both are hunting down sinners in order to ingratiate themselves into God's approval. Calling women bitches or witches is helping God.

I find incredibly disturbing the fact that you see prayer as punitive. Well, okay, the idea that you think that those who pray are vindictive or that they regard women seeking abortions as "bitches."

This tells me that you understand very little, if anything, about prayer. I find what you've said here shocking. I won't try to reassure you that it's not true because you have already created a fictionalized narrative. But tell me please: Do you think that all people who pray are filled with hatred for others, or is it just those who are pro-life?

 

[weaver2]

I find incredibly disturbing the fact that you see prayer as punitive. Well, okay, the idea that you think that those who pray are vindictive or that they regard women seeking abortions as "bitches."

This tells me that you understand very little, if anything, about prayer. I find what you've said here shocking. I won't try to reassure you that it's not true because you have already created a fictionalized narrative. But tell me please: Do you think that all people who pray are filled with hatred for others, or is it just those who are pro-life?

If prayer is really a private and personal conversations with God why are those people praying if front of a PP clinic.

 

[nota bene]

If prayer is really a private and personal conversations with God why are those people praying if front of a PP clinic.

How does your location interfere with the conversation? This doesn't make much sense...unless you sincerely think that the only appropriate place for silent prayer is in your "closet." Do you? Are churches off-limits because they aren't private? What about praying while waiting in a grocery store line? While driving? While sitting on a park bench? Walking?

 

[Lursa]

If prayer is really a private and personal conversations with God why are those people praying if front of a PP clinic.

How does your location interfere with the conversation? This doesn't make much sense...unless you sincerely think that the only appropriate place for silent prayer is in your "closet." Do you? Are churches off-limits because they aren't private? What about praying while waiting in a grocery store line? While driving? While sitting on a park bench? Walking?

Why didnt you answer her question? You just asked her a bunch more.

 

[weaver2]

How does your location interfere with the conversation? This doesn't make much sense...unless you sincerely think that the only appropriate place for silent prayer is in your "closet." Do you? Are churches off-limits because they aren't private? What about praying while waiting in a grocery store line? While driving? While sitting on a park bench? Walking?

That was a rhetorical question, Bene. It didn't really need your input.

 

[nota bene]

Why didnt you answer her question? You just asked her a bunch more.

Lursa, I don't think that an answer is necessary. Weaver has already determined that people pray in front of clinics to make women feel guilty and make them suffer. You've read yourself what she has to say about prayer, and you and she both are intelligent enough to Google if you genuinely have questions about why those who are pro-life choose to stand and silently pray.

 

[nota bene]

That was a rhetorical question, Bene. It didn't really need your input.

Ah, then why did you ask me?

 

[weaver2]

Ah, then why did you ask me?

Rhetorical questions are often used to point out an obvious answer to your audience: Do pigs fly? Is water wet? "These are all rhetorical question examples. They have obvious answers because, of course, water is wet, and nope, sorry, pigs don't fly. These rhetorical questions, also called rhetorical affirmations, can be used to talk about facts or to emphasize a point. The answers could also be suggested from context clues."​

The answer to why are people praying in such an unlikely spot as the sidewalk in front of a PP clinic is obvious to most people.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Because communism and immorality. Women should heed the Bible and keep their legs crossed around men, and the there's no problem.

(right wing thinking)

Oh it is. When they abuse children in the church, they hide it. In AZ, our Republican Supreme Court just reminded us all just how little they care about the "children" and how much they care about hiding child abuse and keeping the flock silent.

Arizona court upholds clergy privilege in child abuse case

The Arizona Supreme Court has ruled that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can refuse to answer questions or turn over documents under a state law.

www.12news.com

 

[Lycanthrope]

Oh it is. When they abuse children in the church, they hide it. In AZ, our Republican Supreme Court just reminded us all just how little they care about the "children" and how much they care about hiding child abuse and keeping the flock silent.

Arizona court upholds clergy privilege in child abuse case

The Arizona Supreme Court has ruled that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can refuse to answer questions or turn over documents under a state law.

www.12news.com

The religious all too often condemn drag queens reading to children as grooming yet when when they are aware of actual sexual abuse of children taking place within their own ranks, their first thought is to protect their institutions. Now that is truly demonic.

 

[nota bene]

Rhetorical questions are often used to point out an obvious answer to your audience: Do pigs fly? Is water wet? "These are all rhetorical question examples. They have obvious answers because, of course, water is wet, and nope, sorry, pigs don't fly. These rhetorical questions, also called rhetorical affirmations, can be used to talk about facts or to emphasize a point. The answers could also be suggested from context clues."​

The answer to why are people praying in such an unlikely spot as the sidewalk in front of a PP clinic is obvious to most people.

Thanks for explaining--and you need to cite your quoted source--what a rhetorical question is.

Where would you suggest that people lawfully assemble in public? <<<Not a rhetorical question.

 

[Lursa]

Lursa, I don't think that an answer is necessary. Weaver has already determined that people pray in front of clinics to make women feel guilty and make them suffer.

Yes, I wrote something similar. I dont think she said it's the only place you or pro-life prayers pray. I know I didnt.

You've read yourself what she has to say about prayer, and you and she both are intelligent enough to Google if you genuinely have questions about why those who are pro-life choose to stand and silently pray.

And you refused to acknowledge the pain and harm your public...visible...praying can do to those women, making it more painful to do something already painful but to them, necessary. That's incredibly disrespectful, and dismissive...let's face it...if God didnt want her to have that abortion, He would stop it. He knows all. (And you're happy that facilities they need are closed/restricted=harm.)

So of course you can pray there, whatever the limits of the local laws are. I am trying to see if you'll acknowledge that you and those others are placing your beliefs and the unborn ahead of those women and their lives (everyday) and their agency as individuals, that you are praying against what they believe is best for their lives and the others in their lives. It shows you DONT value their lives equally because you want to override their consent to their own lives.

 

[soylentgreen]

Thanks for explaining--and you need to cite your quoted source--what a rhetorical question is.

Where would you suggest that people lawfully assemble in public? <<<Not a rhetorical question.

Out of the view of the women they are trying to intimidate and make feel guilty.

 

[Lursa]

Where would you suggest that people lawfully assemble in public? <<<Not a rhetorical question.

A church or mall interior courtyard? A park? Library steps?

 

[nota bene]

Yes, I wrote something similar. I dont think she said it's the only place you or pro-life prayers pray. I know I didnt.



And you refused to acknowledge the pain and harm your public...visible...praying can do to those women, making it more painful to do something already painful but to them, necessary. That's incredibly disrespectful, and dismissive...let's face it...if God didnt want her to have that abortion, He would stop it. He knows all.

So of course you can pray there, whatever the limits of the local laws are. I am trying to see if you'll acknowledge that you and those others are placing your beliefs and the unborn ahead of those women and their lives (everyday) and their agency as individuals, that you are praying against what they believe is best for their lives and the others in their lives. It shows you DONT value their lives equally because you want to override their consent to their own lives.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I didn't claim that either you or she said it's the only place you or those who are pro-life can pray.

What I have said is that Planned Parenthood operated in my community successfully for many years but that when it built a new facility and began providing abortions, those who are pro-life organized to silently pray. As I've also said, anyone genuinely interested in what those who are pro-life are praying and why they choose to do this can find out simply by Googling.

But in our current discussion, this is a case of "Don't bother me with facts; my mind is made up." And I do know for a fact what I pray...while others have only speculation and opinion. That those opinions seem to feel such ill-intent in prayer makes me sad. I can't imagine praying against anything. What a strange notion.

 

[Lursa]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I didn't claim that either you or she said it's the only place you or those who are pro-life can pray.

What I have said is that Planned Parenthood operated in my community successfully for many years but that when it built a new facility and began providing abortions, those who are pro-life organized to silently pray. As I've also said, anyone genuinely interested in what those who are pro-life are praying and why they choose to do this can find out simply by Googling.

But in our current discussion, this is a case of "Don't bother me with facts; my mind is made up." And I do know for a fact what I pray...while others have only speculation and opinion. That those opinions seem to feel such ill-intent in prayer makes me sad. I can't imagine praying against anything. What a strange notion.

Nearly completely a lack of direct response to my post. Esp. the acknowledgement requested...to do so or to say not and why ("debate").

 

[weaver2]

Thanks for explaining--and you need to cite your quoted source--what a rhetorical question is.

Rhetorical Question Examples - Grammar

A rhetorical question is asked without expecting an answer or when the answer is obvious. Look at our rhetorical question examples to emphasize your point.

word.tips

What if I had simply given the definition and example from my own knowledge about grammar. Would I have to put myself down as the source?

Where would you suggest that people lawfully assemble in public? <<<Not a rhetorical question.

Any place but the sidewalk of the Planned Parenthood clinic.

 

[nota bene]

Rhetorical Question Examples - Grammar

A rhetorical question is asked without expecting an answer or when the answer is obvious. Look at our rhetorical question examples to emphasize your point.

word.tips

What if I had simply given the definition and example from my own knowledge about grammar. Would I have to put myself down as the source?

Any place but the sidewalk of the Planned Parenthood clinic.

If you compose a definition yourself, you don't have to give credit to yourself. But when you borrow, you are required to provide a link.

So it's lawful to peacefully assemble anyplace but where YOU don't want others to peacefully assemble? This isn't how the First Amendment works.