Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...[W:875,1181]

[JayDubya]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Pregnancy and childbirth can and often does create serious health risks for women

OFTEN? Horse****.

Can happen? Sure. When it does happen, guess who caused any of the harm of that pregnancy?

Hint: It ain't the kid!

 

[Moot]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

And if the abortionists can keep their hands off. Right?

That is the decision of the parents, not yours.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Easy now. Don't bust a vein! Why get angry at me. I stated a fact too.

I don't know where you're from, but I grew up in Harlem and we were poor and on welfare and of all the people I knew (where some families used soup cans as drinking glasses) were poor, but ate good, went to school, got married, got jobs and survived. I lived in Harlem for 40 years (except for 4 years in the military) before I moved out west, and I grew up fine. I know there are kids that are starving out there, but what you propose (killing babies) is crazy. Killing them is worse. What is the matter with YOU !!

Why are you so anxious to see these babies killed? I think if you could ever ask, they would want to live.

I live here on earth. I used to be a Democrat, and I couldn't understand the positions on different issues that my fellow Democrats were taking, and I found myself voting for Republicans. I find myself today, in confusion, and in the same predicament as when I was young, wondering what the Democrats are doing? The problem is that liberals infected the party and now, the Democratic view of the world (High taxes, big government, welfare, abortion, and now Obamacare) has ruined the Democrats. I wish all Democrats would take a good look in the mirror and see who they really are. But it won't be pretty.

So sit down, breath deeply, and relax.

If you want to continue to carry on with this sad, sad, sad denial about millions of children in peril and dying...do so at the risk of appearing unintelligent. I doesn't matter where children are suffering and dying. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!

You want to add to the list of the suffering and dying...

 

[Moot]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

No, it is not. Logically, any such harm would be caused by the mother and father, not their offspring. The offspring cannot be the cause of any such thing.

How is it that pro-lifers can care so much for unborn fetuses and so little about humanity? What is the point of protecting fetuses if you're just going to hate them after they're born when they can actually feel pain and suffer? I've always thought that was rather sadistic and selfish of Pro-lifers.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

How is it that pro-lifers can care so much for unborn fetuses and so little about humanity?

What a steaming pantload. :roll:

Sure, Moot, it's the ones who don't want to solve their problems with killing that are the misanthropes. I'm sure that logic train's amazing.

 

[RamFel]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

In general, I don't really have a dog in the abortion debate. Really don't care either way. However, this particular part of this issue is a problem I see with the pro-life side. What you fail to realize is the implications of having a child that is unwanted. There are several things that can happen... the best of which would be adoption. This, however, is not infinite. The other two options are much less desirable: foster care and growing up in a household where you are not wanted. Both of these scenarios have strong potential for causing harm to the child, something that I would think you all would want to avoid.

So, my issue with pro-lifers is that you all have no future thinking ability. You think about the moment, not what comes after. Let's say that you all get what you want... no more abortions. We then have millions of children that are unwanted. After some are adopted, what is your solution for the remainder to be healthy and happy... and remember, I have already explained that foster care or growing up in a household where being unwanted and resented doesn't cut it. What is your solution? I've asked this question before and never gotten a legitimate answer.

Oh, and please don't resort to the silly, "well, being alive is better than anything else that could happen"... because if you do, I'll just respond with one of my favorite sayings: "It's better to have a horrible end than to have horrors without an end". And I will deem it a non-answer.

True, lets imagine we get what we want – no more abortions. There just might be millions of unwanted children (a worst case scenario). Or, another possibility, there may not.. To be honest, I don’t really know. But what of it? It may not even happen as you say that it might. Mine is not to guess. Mine is to deal with problem we have at hand now. Abortion.

That’s the problem with liberals. They want to deal with a future problem, which may not happen, by killing babies. Is death a solution? I don’t think it is and so and I would rather that we don’t go that route. There are many loving homes. But let’s pretend that there ARE millions of unwanted children. Death may still not be preferable. The human spirit is undefeatable, and people climb out of worse situations to become happy productive citizens. Not all I admit, but many. Why play God? What if you’re wrong? God may not be very understanding. The road to hell is paved with good intentions (if your intentions are indeed good).

Death is not the solution. I choose life.

 

[Doppelgangirl]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Nope... that is a completely different scenario and situation.

Want to find out why?

You are not allowed to place another human being into a dependent state and then remove that care. I would not be allowed to invite you to ride on my airplane and then once we are in the air, I decide to just kick you off the airplane. I would not be allowed to do that because I have placed you into a dependent state. Since the woman has placed the fetus into a state of dependence, she should not be allowed to simply kill it at will.

That comparison is pretty shoddy. We all try (myself included) to come up with examples that reflect the abortion issue. The fact is, though, there is no other real world example of the dependent nature of pregnancy. We all fall short. It would be a waste of time to go thru them here. I'm guessing you've heard them before...often...

You might find the definition of "individual" interesting.

Individual | Define Individual at Dictionary.com

***Note the meaning as it relates to biology.
...a single organism capable of independent existence. Hmmm...:roll:

Okay... so let me ask you, which is worse: Being pregnant for 9 months or getting killed?

Truthfully? Death.

Why? Because life without liberty isn't much of a life. That's what we're dealing with. The good ole USA was founded precisely for that very reason.

Wanting to have a baby is one thing. Forced pregnancy is not remotely comparable.

Science says that unborns are living human beings. The law currently operates under the assumption that they are not.
Law that flies in the face of known science is bad law. Exactly of the same sort that allowed blacks to be exploited by saying that they also were not human beings.

No. The protections provided by the Constitution apply to born and naturalized citizens. You cannot grant personhood to a fetus without denying the personhood of the woman. That is a biological/philosophical/social fact.

I'll say it. "A fetus is a human being and a person. How do I know this?

(1) Because what the person looks like at conception has nothing to do with what what they are. They have names like Embryo and Fetus, but they are also called Human's and Persons. And....

(2) Whether a person is just conceived or out of the womb (a kid, teenager, adult or senior citizen), it is still the same individual. You were once a mass of cells, weren't you? If you had been aborted, you would be dead now. The issue is NOT about women. It's about the right to life for the babies.

(1) "Looks" have nothing to do with it. At the point where 90-some-odd % of abortions occur, it doesn't have organs.

(2) Nothing to do with women, eh? To quote Prissy in Gone With the Wind... You don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies.

Born children don't necessarily starve, or go through the severe physical consequences of malnutrition. I didn't. Did you? Most born babies are brought up in happy homes, where they are warm, safe, well fed, educated and generally are mentally and physically healthy and go on to be contributing productive members of our society.

You are absolute misinformed about what goes on in this world. What you are saying is NONSENSE and PURE IGNORANCE. What I stated is A FACT...what the hell is the matter with you? What planet do you live on?

:mrgreen:
The exact same words went thru my head reading that... Jinx, RM! You owe me a Coke!

Why play God? What if you’re wrong? God may not be very understanding. The road to hell is paved with good intentions (if your intentions are indeed good).

What if??? Regardless, isn't that God's business? How is it yours? In any way?

Death is not the solution. I choose life.

Exactly. Choose.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Forced pregnancy is not remotely comparable.

No one is talking about forcing anyone to create offspring. Folks do that on their own.

In any event, banning abortion does not "force" you to do anything other than refrain from killing, the same way that laws against every other killing "force" you to refrain from killing.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

That comparison is pretty shoddy. We all try (myself included) to come up with examples that reflect the abortion issue. The fact is, though, there is no other real world example of the dependent nature of pregnancy. We all fall short. It would be a waste of time to go thru them here. I'm guessing you've heard them before...often...

You might find the definition of "individual" interesting.

Individual | Define Individual at Dictionary.com

***Note the meaning as it relates to biology.
...a single organism capable of independent existence. Hmmm...:roll:

Truthfully? Death.

Why? Because life without liberty isn't much of a life. That's what we're dealing with. The good ole USA was founded precisely for that very reason.

Wanting to have a baby is one thing. Forced pregnancy is not remotely comparable.

No. The protections provided by the Constitution apply to born and naturalized citizens. You cannot grant personhood to a fetus without denying the personhood of the woman. That is a biological/philosophical/social fact.

(1) "Looks" have nothing to do with it. At the point where 90-some-odd % of abortions occur, it doesn't have organs.

(2) Nothing to do with women, eh? To quote Prissy in Gone With the Wind... You don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no babies.






:mrgreen:
The exact same words went thru my head reading that... Jinx, RM! You owe me a Coke!



What if??? Regardless, isn't that God's business? How is it yours? In any way?



Exactly. Choose.

DG...I've posted the following to Fedor50 about 50 times and he still refused to accept it because he sees all actions by government temporary or apt to change at any moment so therefore he just ignores our system of government its functions:

AS PER THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA....

The Definitions below were created by Congress for the purpose of UNIFORMLY interpreting and executing the laws of the land.

1 U.S. Code § 8 - “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant

Current through Pub. L. 113-100. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)


(a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

(b) As used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being “born alive” as defined in this section.

 

[Doppelgangirl]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

DG...I've posted the following to Fedor50 about 50 times and he still refused to accept it because he sees all actions by government temporary or apt to change at any moment so therefore he just ignores our system of government its functions:

AS PER THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA....

The Definitions below were created by Congress for the purpose of UNIFORMLY interpreting and executing the laws of the land.

I'm not sure how that could be more clear...

Captain Obvious would be proud!

:idea: Maybe it's a simple language issue...

Does Google translate speak ignorant? :3oops:

 

[RamFel]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU! .

Abortion and the fact that you all continue to deny the obvious, state the unbelievable, and the looney, and then you pat yourselves on the back (all the Likes) as if you accomplished something when in fact you keep pushing yourselves back two steps back for every one forward. None of you have any clue.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Nope... that is a completely different scenario and situation.

Want to find out why?

You are not allowed to place another human being into a dependent state and then remove that care. I would not be allowed to invite you to ride on my airplane and then once we are in the air, I decide to just kick you off the airplane. I would not be allowed to do that because I have placed you into a dependent state. Since the woman has placed the fetus into a state of dependence, she should not be allowed to simply kill it at will.

If he attacked you and the only way to stop him was to kick him out of the plane, then yes, you could.

Abortion is a form of self defense, given what a pregnancy does and can do to a woman's body.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

You are correct, the unborn cannot be abused. Instead they simply get killed for no better reason than convenience which is much MUCH worse.

Says someone who will never, ever be pregnant.....

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Abortion and the fact that you all continue to deny the obvious, state the unbelievable, and the looney, and then you pat yourselves on the back (all the Likes) as if you accomplished something when in fact you keep pushing yourselves back two steps back for every one forward. None of you have any clue.

That's because respecting the rights of the born trump the unborn. Just common sense.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

That's because respecting the rights of the born trump the unborn.

Remember when you denied the fact that you push bigotry and inequality?

I do. You lied.

 

[RamFel]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

That's because respecting the rights of the born trump the unborn. Just common sense.

That's your analysis, faulty as it is.

 

[RamFel]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Says someone who will never, ever be pregnant.....

Yeah, and he's right.

Death is no joke. Killing is no joke. But you continue to make up stories about how wonderful abortion is. What I'd like to know is "who benefits from all the deaths?"

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

True, lets imagine we get what we want – no more abortions. There just might be millions of unwanted children (a worst case scenario). Or, another possibility, there may not.. To be honest, I don’t really know. But what of it? It may not even happen as you say that it might. Mine is not to guess. Mine is to deal with problem we have at hand now. Abortion.

That’s the problem with liberals. They want to deal with a future problem, which may not happen, by killing babies. Is death a solution? I don’t think it is and so and I would rather that we don’t go that route. There are many loving homes. But let’s pretend that there ARE millions of unwanted children. Death may still not be preferable. The human spirit is undefeatable, and people climb out of worse situations to become happy productive citizens. Not all I admit, but many. Why play God? What if you’re wrong? God may not be very understanding. The road to hell is paved with good intentions (if your intentions are indeed good).

Death is not the solution. I choose life.

Exactly as I expected. No answer. Conservatives seem to have no ability to plan for the future and be proactive about things. This, as always, is their great failing.

I'm sure this will come up again. I've posted my request for a plan several times. No pro-lifer has ever come up with one. You all don't really care about the children. If you did, you'd have some idea of what to do next. All you care about is your personal morality. Sorry, but that isn't good enough.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

No, it is not. Logically, any such harm would be caused by the mother and father, not their offspring. The offspring cannot be the cause of any such thing.

Absolutely incorrect. Offspring can certainly cause harm. This isn't even debatable.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Remember when you denied the fact that you push bigotry and inequality?

I do. You lied.

I never lie about these issues, Jay. Why should I? I'm not the one who wants to force women into involuntary servitude. I'm not the one who wants to prosecute women and medical providers. I'm not the one who denies that over 5 million children a year die from starvation...and another 6 million suffer horribly throughout their lives from malnutrition. Apparently a lot of PRO-LIFE don't care about these born children who are among the living experiencing hellacious atrocities.

AND let's not forget the children who are dying and physical causalities every day throughout the Middle East from wars that's gone on for decades, African countries children are being mutilate and tortured, and South America hundreds of thousands of homeless children roam the streets. In America 100's of thousand are in the system because of neglect, abuse, and abandonment.

Pro-Choice don't want more children added to the list of the suffering and dying to ignore these children exists like apparently a large number of pro-life.

If you can't care for the born...how in the hell can you care about the unborn? You just have no respect, compassion, or empathy for the born...women or children.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

That's your analysis, faulty as it is.

prove me wrong...

 

[Ocean007]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

OFTEN? Horse**** .

YES, OFTEN, whether you want to admit that or not. In spite of what anti-choice extremists want everyone to believe, pregnancy and childbirth often causes very serious health risks and even life-threatening complications for women. It's a fact ALL women should be aware of, no matter how badly anti-choicers want to hide it.

 

[Ocean007]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Abortion and the fact that you all continue to deny the obvious, state the unbelievable, and the looney, and then you pat yourselves on the back (all the Likes) as if you accomplished something when in fact you keep pushing yourselves back two steps back for every one forward. None of you have any clue.

In other words, you're pissed that in spite of all your posts, you still can't convince pro-choice posters that we're wrong and you're right. Got it. :roll:

Want some cheese with that WHINE? :lol:

 

[Ocean007]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

If he attacked you and the only way to stop him was to kick him out of the plane, then yes, you could.

Abortion is a form of self defense, given what a pregnancy does and can do to a woman's body.

Exactly. Pregnancy and childbirth can and often does cause serious damage to a woman's body, in spite of the anti-choice side's repeated efforts to deny that fact.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Why Abortion is WRONG! It is Just THIS Simple...

Absolutely incorrect. Offspring can certainly cause harm. This isn't even debatable.

Ever? Yes.

In utero? Impossible. This isn't even debatable. The parents cause any "harm" of pregnancy.