Whose political/economic philosophy more closely aligns with your own? (1 Viewer)

[Lutherf]

I think Jefferson and Trump have a little in common. Jefferson didn't want the government spending too much money but then the Louisiana Purchase opportunity came along and he got past his hesitation pretty quickly.

 

[Ahlevah]

Interestingly, Thomas Jefferson's classic liberalism (and the Founding Fathers' rationale for declaring independence from His Majesty King George III) was based on John Locke's natural rights (Life, Liberty, Property).

Well, Locke is a certainly a central figure in Jefferson’s thinking on the origin and nature of rights, but there are other pieces to the “classical liberal” puzzle that Jefferson helped assemble, such as Aristotle (the important role of “virtue” and the duties of the citizenry in an ordered and civil republic), Montesquieu (separation of powers), Rousseau (social contract theory, with the idea that ultimate political authority rests with the people), Adam Smith (free markets, commerce, and the role of government in economic affairs), and David Hume (skepticism and empiricism). I’m sure there are others I could name, but these are some of the “biggies.”

 

[Ahlevah]

Can you show me where you got such info? Of course you can't.

What rock have you been hiding under? Democrats pointing to Trump’s tariffs soaking working families is an internet meme:

Democrats planned to introduce a bill Thursday requiring retailers to display product cost increases to customers caused by President Donald Trump's tariff policies.

Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said he would introduce the Truth in Tariffs Act.

"If the President and his Cabinet of billionaires are forcing Americans to pay a lot more for consumer goods, the people have a right to know just how much. His tariff charge is basically a national sales tax and we always print the price of taxes on receipts," Raskin wrote on X.

MSN

 

[noonereal]

I think the GOP blew woke way out of proportion for the sake of propaganda. Is caring about others woke? Equality is work? The right is fighting against all the things that makes America great, I do not grok?

Agree

This does not change my post.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Few people would do that, including me. I mean, maybe some Islamist or Marxist-Leninist fanatic might think he would, but the question was “Whose political/economic philosophy more closely aligns with your own?”

Same gotcha question.
Let's say I pick Eduard Bernstein, all that does is open the door to uneducated people to label me as a socialist or some such nonsense. I have voted Liberal AND Conservative in Canada. I do consider myself liberal in political leaning though. But none on the list more closely aligns with my political views, because my political views were formed more by history and my own personal belief system than by personalities.

 

[GIJane]

Woke is not the negative term folks on the right try to imply. Jesus is woke if I'm to believe the Bible or am I wrong?

I think "woke" is just as much a silly ass term as "MAGA" to describe people. I know FOX and NewsMax use it but I dislike it.

 

[Parker_Chess]

Socialism with Chinese Characteristics is what I believe in. America needs to do what China has and is continuing to do.

 

[Gatsby]

Well, as I said, I had 10 shots, so I was trying to stick with people who best exemplified each major school of political/economic thought. I mean, is there a “normie mainstream liberalism” school best exemplified by Paul Krugman or Ezra Klein? You’re welcome to shout it out. What principles undergird this school? Capitalism but… ? What else?

I might call it neoliberalism or center-leftism or abundance liberalism. I'd say its main principles are capitalism, a welfare state, Keynesian monetary/fiscal policies, fairly open trade and immigration policies, and a preference for market forces over regulation whenever possible.

Some of them, like Matt Yglesias and Noah Smith, also stress the importance of actually winning elections by saying and doing popular things, so there's also more of an emphasis on political pragmatism than there is in most of the further-left ideologies.

 

[Felis Leo]

I had Mussolini (fascism) in there, but pulled him to make room for someone else. I didn’t think anyone here would admit to aligning with facists like Hitler or Il Duce.

Both Carl Schmitt and Giovanni Gentile are possible contenders for fascism or "authoritarian conservatism" if you want.

 

[Felis Leo]

I might call it neoliberalism or center-leftism or abundance liberalism. I'd say its main principles are capitalism, a welfare state, Keynesian monetary/fiscal policies, fairly open trade and immigration policies, and a preference for market forces over regulation whenever possible.

So, basically what the Democratic Party Platform for the last three decades-plus since Bill Clinton's victory, correct?

Some of them, like Matt Yglesias and Noah Smith, also stress the importance of actually winning elections by saying and doing popular things, so there's also more of an emphasis on political pragmatism than there is in most of the further-left ideologies.

By trying to follow what is popular, or trying to affect and change people's opinions as to what is popular? Or is it up to liberal and leftists activists to change public opinion and then left-wing/liberal politicians to merely follow public opinion afterwards?

 

[Gatsby]

So, basically what the Democratic Party Platform for the last three decades-plus since Bill Clinton's victory, correct?

In some ways, yes. Minus the post-2014 turn toward wokeness, and the post-2020 turn toward economic leftism. I'd say the Bill Clinton and Barack Obama eras were the closest to the mark of what I'd like to see from our politicians, although both had their problems. (The Obama era, in particular, was not very good at winning down-ballot elections.)

By trying to follow what is popular, or trying to affect and change people's opinions as to what is popular?

One can do both, but I'd say the former is non-negotiable and easier, whereas the latter is optional and harder.

Or is it up to liberal and leftists activists to change public opinion and then left-wing/liberal politicians to merely follow public opinion afterwards?

That's probably a good division of labor. I won't say that politicians can never change public opinion, but it's much harder, especially if people aren't already favorably inclined to that politician.

 

[Hamish Howl]

I chose Jefferson because Thomas Paine wasn't on the list.

 

[Felis Leo]

If you had to pick ONE of the following historical figures whose political and economic philosophy more closely aligns with your own, who would it be? In the discussion, please indicate why. I maxed out on options, so if you have someone else in mind, such as John Dewey (progressivism) or Murray Rothbard (anarcho-capitalism), feel free to add him. I avoided religious figures and classical schools of philosophy, because they’re generally more difficult to categorize, but if you feel the philosophy of someone like Jesus, Muhammad, or Plato should govern how people run a society, feel free to tell us why.

I would say I am a progressive populist, and I will not pretend to have read tons of political philosophers on the subject. Rather, I would look at politicians and political activists who I admire and what they delivered or what they tried to deliver for the American people. The foremost among them being Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and William Jennings Bryan. These were men who believed in using the power of their elected office (well, Bryan never got to be President sadly) to serve the people by (1) extending government largess directly to the people and (2) constraining the unchecked, unearned, unaccountable power of massive private companies, instead of serving business and expecting (or pretending to expect) corporations to do the right thing by the American people with higher wages and lower prices.

 

[Ahlevah]

I think "woke" is just as much a silly ass term as "MAGA" to describe people. I know FOX and NewsMax use it but I dislike it.

Yeah, it is a somewhat pejorative term, but “woke” or “wokie” Is a still a good way to describe radical leftists who see everything through the prism of identity politics and social justice. It’s short and to the point.

 

[Ahlevah]

I chose Jefferson because Thomas Paine wasn't on the list.

Everybody’s on the list. That list wasn’t meant to be all-inclusive. Consider Paine a “write-in.” You could have said Archie Bunker, whose political philosophy encompassed patriotism, traditional family values and gender roles, anti-“wokeism,” pragmatic popularism, distrust of intellectuals and big government, and American exceptionalism and greatness, also known as the Trump-Vance School of American Triumphalism.

 

[bongsaway]

I think "woke" is just as much a silly ass term as "MAGA" to describe people. I know FOX and NewsMax use it but I dislike it.

I heartily disagree. MAGA A to me is **** you to anybody who doesn't think like me and I am willing to punish you for not thinking like me. In your mind that is as horrible as saying all men should be treated equal, diversity is a bad thing for America even though we are a country if immigrants, the right is actively trying to alter history teaching shit like the 2020 election was stolen to school kids while the right wails about indoctrination in our schools, it sick.

 

[Ahlevah]

MAGA A to me is **** you to anybody who doesn't think like me and I am willing to punish you for not thinking like me.

That pretty much defines modern left-wing social justice radicals. They’re not interested in discussion or compromise. It’s their way or the highway.







To use their word, in some ways MAGA was a “reactionary” response to their bullshit.

 

[GIJane]

I heartily disagree. MAGA A to me is **** you to anybody who doesn't think like me and I am willing to punish you for not thinking like me. In your mind that is as horrible as saying all men should be treated equal, diversity is a bad thing for America even though we are a country if immigrants, the right is actively trying to alter history teaching shit like the 2020 election was stolen to school kids while the right wails about indoctrination in our schools, it sick.

Make yourself as mad as you want. I disagree. They are both silly ass terms.