Who's to blame for the Arizona massacre?

[ReverendHellh0und]

That's nonsense. The Arizona Massacre gunman pulled out his weapon and shot his victims in a matter of seconds. Very few ordinary people would have recognized what was happening or where it was happening before it was over. The only prevention would have been not allowing him to enter that crowd with an instrument that could cause so much harm so quickly.

OODA loop



training, observation, and acting...... a well armed citizen could have mitigated this monsters damage. :shrug:

 

[Chappy]

so you want metal detectors

I want a society that understands that the Constitution and specifically the 2nd Amendment is not a suicide pact. I want a society that has sensible gun restrictions.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I want a society that understands that the Constitution and specifically the 2nd Amendment is not a suicide pact. I want a society that has sensible gun restrictions.

Good luck with a constitutional amendment, friend. :2wave:

 

[TurtleDude]

I want a society that understands that the Constitution and specifically the 2nd Amendment is not a suicide pact. I want a society that has sensible gun restrictions.

what people who are ignorant about guns think are reasonable restrictions are generally idiotic

 

[qwertyuiop]

A nutjob with a legally bought gun

I am not saying that conservatives caused this, but I do think this kid of thing is why we need better gun control (i.e. psychological evalutations) before buying a gun.

 

[Chappy]

Good luck with a constitutional amendment, friend. :2wave:

It's true, a society starts with its people and today Americans seem obsessed by the idea of easy access to guns. And the tragedies keep on coming.

And, that's why I blame them in my opening post.

 

[TurtleDude]

A nutjob with a legally bought gun

I am not saying that conservatives caused this, but I do think this kid of thing is why we need better gun control (i.e. psychological evalutations) before buying a gun.

so tell us how much of the right to privacy shall we violate?

 

[Slartibartfast]

A nutjob with a legally bought gun

I am not saying that conservatives caused this, but I do think this kid of thing is why we need better gun control (i.e. psychological evalutations) before buying a gun.

Bull****. This man was not legally designated as crazy, there was no legal mechanism for denying him a gun without some rather draconian restrictions that everybody would hate. Do you want more patriot act like legislation?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

A nutjob with a legally bought gun

I am not saying that conservatives caused this, but I do think this kid of thing is why we need better gun control (i.e. psychological evalutations) before buying a gun.

dood the aclu were the ones that mucked up the psych check, not conservatives.

 

[TurtleDude]

It's true, a society starts with its people and today Americans seem obsessed by the idea of easy access to guns. And the tragedies keep on coming.

actually gun crime has been decreasing but gun ownership has increased

mexico has draconian gun laws

 

[digsbe]

That's nonsense. The Arizona Massacre gunman pulled out his weapon and shot his victims in a matter of seconds. Very few ordinary people would have recognized what was happening or where it was happening before it was over. The only prevention would have been not allowing him to enter that crowd with an instrument that could cause so much harm so quickly.

He is also not allowed to murder, yet he did. Criminals and crazies will still get guns. Banning them or revoking our rights won't solve anything. It doesn't take long for someone to draw a pistol and shoot the killer once they are aware of it. Out of all the people in the room I'm sure 1 of them could have shot him in time. It wasn't like the killer came in and shot around for 5 seconds and left either. I'm not arguing that we should force all law abiding citizens to own and carry a gun. I'm merely using your logic and argument against your belief in taking away Constitutional rights because of a crazy insane person that used a gun to kill illegally.

 

[qwertyuiop]

dood the aclu were the ones that mucked up the psych check, not conservatives.

Thats bull...the conservatives are the ones who want no restrictions on gun control

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

It's true, a society starts with its people and today Americans seem obsessed by the idea of easy access to guns. And the tragedies keep on coming.

There are more "tragedies" with doctors, cars.buckets of water..... Ban them?


Hell, more people die of aids, let's ban sex....... :roll:

 

[TurtleDude]

Thats bull...the conservatives are the ones who want no restrictions on gun control

actually conservatives want to punish harshly those who misuse guns

lefties want to prevent honest people from getting guns

we are anti crimial


the left is usually anti honest armed citizen

 

[qwertyuiop]

so tell us how much of the right to privacy shall we violate?

I'm saying if you want to by a weapon that can easily be used to do something like this, you need to be sane. I'm not saying we get to search your house, but I am saying you need to not be mentally unbalanced. This man clearly was. (He was kicked out of school for strange outbursts and disruptions)

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Thats bull...the conservatives are the ones who want no restrictions on gun control

look it up, we've been talking about it all day.

 

[qwertyuiop]

actually conservatives want to punish harshly those who misuse guns

lefties want to prevent honest people from getting guns

we are anti crimial


the left is usually anti honest armed citizen

Also bull. If you want to have a gun to hunt or "protect yourself" (.06% of violent crimes stopped with guns), then be my guest. But you have to be sane, and not have a criminal record. I hardly think that those things are too unreasonable.

 

[randel]

Perhaps the majority of blame is the shooter - but there has to be some shared responsibility here as well. The anecdotal evidence has this guy being scary since at least 2007. He's 22 now so scary started when he was 18 or 19 and other reports still have him living with mom and dad. So did no one see enough strangeness to suggest this guy get some psychological counseling? I don't know if there was enough to commit him or not, but certainly someone must have seen some changes. That being said - it's hard to know how MUCH blame resides elsewhere until more information is available. But this type of violence doesn't just happen over night and I have a hard time blaming gun laws for anything when mental health flags aren't added to this guys background check.

in the end, this guy made a choice....in life, i'm sure we all know people whom we consider to be 'strange'...to be 'out there'...to be 'weird'...or who do things that make us go 'wtf?'...is that enough to slap a 'mental issue' tag on them? we all have our 'quirks'. should have someone noticed something 'wrong' with this guy? quite possibly....in the end, this guy pulled the trigger, this guy killed several people, this guy shot the rep in the head....THIS GUY......not palin, (though she is an idiot for even posting the 'crosshairs' to start with) though she will get a fair amount of grief for the 'crosshairs' over the districts of the congresspeople she wanted to see out of power, and not 'lax' gun laws, we have enough of them, they just need to be enforced.

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm saying if you want to by a weapon that can easily be used to do something like this, you need to be sane. I'm not saying we get to search your house, but I am saying you need to not be mentally unbalanced. This man clearly was. (He was kicked out of school for strange outbursts and disruptions)

so how do you guarantee that. right now if you have been adjudicated mentally incompetent you are prohibited. where do you draw the line?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Also bull. If you want to have a gun to hunt or "protect yourself" (.06% of violent crimes stopped with guns), then be my guest. But you have to be sane, and not have a criminal record. I hardly think that those things are too unreasonable.

That, uhm already is the law. /facepalm

 

[TurtleDude]

Also bull. If you want to have a gun to hunt or "protect yourself" (.06% of violent crimes stopped with guns), then be my guest. But you have to be sane, and not have a criminal record. I hardly think that those things are too unreasonable.

some of the gun haters brand me "insane"for wanting to carry a handgun or own the same rifle the military uses.

right now no criminal record means no CONVICTIONS and sane means NO COURT FINDINGS TO THE CONTRARY

that is the proper limit

not some bureaucrat saying someone is insane without any right to be heard

 

[qwertyuiop]

That, uhm already is the law. /facepalm

Its obviously not working. This man was clearly unbalanced, yet he still got a gun. we need stronger measures.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Its obviously not working. This man was clearly unbalanced, yet he still got a gun. we need stronger measures.

talk to the aclu.....

 

[qwertyuiop]

some of the gun haters brand me "insane"for wanting to carry a handgun or own the same rifle the military uses.

right now no criminal record means no CONVICTIONS and sane means NO COURT FINDINGS TO THE CONTRARY

that is the proper limit

not some bureaucrat saying someone is insane without any right to be heard

Criminal Record:Yes

Sane: No. If you want to buy a gun, you need to get yourself declared sane. By a psychiatrist. Period.

 

[qwertyuiop]

talk to the aclu.....

Give me a link to a reputable source.