And finding people to agree on what's "good" vs what's "bad" would be problematic. The OP wasn't very clear on the meaning of those two subjective terms.Let’s be real, the only dissent anyone is ok with is that which they agree with.
When it’s undefined, it’s easy to give lip service to valuing dissent. Rarely, though, do you see someone that’s actually consistent in their defense (or condemnation) of protest/protesters.And finding people to agree on what's "good" vs what's "bad" would be problematic. The OP wasn't very clear on the meaning of those two subjective terms.
Patriotism is as wrong as all other isms.This is a harder topic than it should be. When your country is in the right, doing good, it's easy for patriotism to mean supporting the country, and for it to be negative disloyalty to oppose the country and its actions.
So for example, when the US was fighting fascism in World War II, it was patriotism to support the country and the war, and negative disloyalty to oppose it. Though some, including powerful people, did.
But it's another thing when the country does wrong. Some try to claim a simplistic definition of patriotism, blind support for the country; it's clear from one of their popular slogans, "My country, right or wrong".
But this is wrong. The patriotic thing when your country is doing wrong is to criticize it and try to get your country to do right. But the first group wrongly attacks that second group as disloyal for supporting the country 'right or wrong'.
Without that, there is no right and wrong, only groups fighting for power, with strength the only factor.
How much wrong could have been prevented if more Germans had opposed the Nazis, and WWII had been prevented? Had more Americans opposed the wrong war on Vietnam, and that war been prevented? Had more southerners opposed slavery, and the civil war been prevented?
Countries do wrong, and it needs to be understood what patriots should do when they do. That blind patriotism is the real treason. That the Germans who 'patriotically' supported a Nazi government helped traitorously devastate not only much of the world but their own country. That dissent is patriotic, when motivated to oppose wrong, and demands for blind loyalty are disloyal.
Our country thought we'd learned this, when Bush and Iraq came along, and we found we had not and the country was divided, with the same demands for blind loyalty. The was was found to be wrong in numerous ways, and there never was any accountablity. Oopsie, change the subject, forget it happened.
Dissent isn't always right. There can be good faith disagreements. But the demand for blind loyalty is not patriotism. The attacking and attempts to stifle reasonable people opposing what they think is wrong, is what's wrong. We need to recognize it's hard enough challenging wrongdoing by your country, and recognize its importance, suppressing those who try to suppress wrongly.
Too many people can't even imagine their country doing wrong. How many Russians feel righteous about their war on Ukraine?
Is it real patriotism for Russians to blindly support the war, as it causes disaster for Ukraine, blackens their standing globally, and ruins their economy and sees enormous loss of lives from their own side as well? Is it real patriotism for Americans to support when the US does wrong, preventing democracy and so on?
That's true only for some. And for them, as I said, there is no right or wrong, but only 'might makes right'.Let’s be real, the only dissent anyone is ok with is that which they agree with.
The OP reads like mumbo-jumbo to me. "Good country" is vague, subjective and assigns human qualities to...what? A sovereign state? I have no clue what he means by a "good country."When it’s undefined, it’s easy to give lip service to valuing dissent. Rarely, though, do you see someone that’s actually consistent in their defense (or condemnation) of protest/protesters.
You were actually who I had in mind.That's true only for some. And for them, as I said, there is no right or wrong, but only 'might makes right'.
Patriotism is as wrong as all other isms.
Let’s be real, the only dissent anyone is ok with is that which they agree with.
Then your opinion is imbecilic, and I don't need to see more from you.You were actually who I had in mind.
Depends how it's defined. Jingoism is blind patriotism. True patriotism is solemn and serious.Patriotism is as wrong as all other isms.
It doesn’t seem you’re valuing my dissent at all.Then your opinion is imbecilic, and I don't need to see more from you.
Dulce et decorum estThat's only true for some definitions of patriotism.
Personally I think magnetism is rather attractive, but clearly it repels you.Patriotism is as wrong as all other isms.
The vast majority.How many Russians feel righteous about their war on Ukraine?
Bravo!Personally I think magnetism is rather attractive, but clearly it repels you.
Nobody hates the country. People hate other people who live in the country, and sometimes the reasoning given is "because they hate this country."I think, from now on, “hateriotism” needs to be word for those that despise their own country.
Best I can do is post 17.Depends how it's defined. Jingoism is blind patriotism. True patriotism is solemn and serious.
Spending money over holiday weekends is modern Americana. Stopping at the veterans cemetery on the way home on Memorial Day - to honor (and visit) fallen and passed Americans - is true patriotism. It comes from the heart.
Jingoism comes from hatred, fear and ignorance. I don't consider it patriotic at all, and here (I think) I agree with the OP. Not sure.
So it 'true of some' AND imbecilic? How does that happen?Then your opinion is imbecilic, and I don't need to see more from you.
to thine own self be true, but no need to trash your country if it's wrong either,This is a harder topic than it should be. When your country is in the right, doing good, it's easy for patriotism to mean supporting the country, and for it to be negative disloyalty to oppose the country and its actions.
So for example, when the US was fighting fascism in World War II, it was patriotism to support the country and the war, and negative disloyalty to oppose it. Though some, including powerful people, did.
But it's another thing when the country does wrong. Some try to claim a simplistic definition of patriotism, blind support for the country; it's clear from one of their popular slogans, "My country, right or wrong".
But this is wrong. The patriotic thing when your country is doing wrong is to criticize it and try to get your country to do right. But the first group wrongly attacks that second group as disloyal for supporting the country 'right or wrong'.
Without that, there is no right and wrong, only groups fighting for power, with strength the only factor.
How much wrong could have been prevented if more Germans had opposed the Nazis, and WWII had been prevented? Had more Americans opposed the wrong war on Vietnam, and that war been prevented? Had more southerners opposed slavery, and the civil war been prevented?
Countries do wrong, and it needs to be understood what patriots should do when they do. That blind patriotism is the real treason. That the Germans who 'patriotically' supported a Nazi government helped traitorously devastate not only much of the world but their own country. That dissent is patriotic, when motivated to oppose wrong, and demands for blind loyalty are disloyal.
Our country thought we'd learned this, when Bush and Iraq came along, and we found we had not and the country was divided, with the same demands for blind loyalty. The was was found to be wrong in numerous ways, and there never was any accountablity. Oopsie, change the subject, forget it happened.
Dissent isn't always right. There can be good faith disagreements. But the demand for blind loyalty is not patriotism. The attacking and attempts to stifle reasonable people opposing what they think is wrong, is what's wrong. We need to recognize it's hard enough challenging wrongdoing by your country, and recognize its importance, suppressing those who try to suppress wrongly.
Too many people can't even imagine their country doing wrong. How many Russians feel righteous about their war on Ukraine?
Is it real patriotism for Russians to blindly support the war, as it causes disaster for Ukraine, blackens their standing globally, and ruins their economy and sees enormous loss of lives from their own side as well? Is it real patriotism for Americans to support when the US does wrong, preventing democracy and so on?
I know, the “side” we disagree with is just always worse, isn’t it?Nobody hates the country. People hate other people who live in the country, and sometimes the reasoning given is "because they hate this country."
Both sides take these positions, precisely because both sides are composed of people. No one is perfect, much less any grouping of people.
That said, the right has certainly been louder (and most likely greater in number) with the "they hate the country" rhetoric, but as you can see, the left is not immune to such cynical views.
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