Who is the sick man - or the sick woman - of Europe now?

[Chagos]

~...................................Putin is considered evil in the west. Not so with Russians. Putin arrested the decline, corruption, rapacity of the Yeltsin days

Putin arrested none of that, what he did was channel the spoils that previously were spreading all over the place without Kremlin control.

Corruption in Russia is as rife as ever and Putin its primary benefactor..

 

[PeteEU]

One think the Uk has going for it is historically low unemployment.
The economic forcasts have all been adjusted higher recently from the gloomy forcasts of just the start of the year and we haven't seen the mass layoffs that were feared.

Because you had/have huge amounts of job openings. At some point employers will stop looking and close shop...it has already started.

 

[PeteEU]

Citations?

Russia swings to $29 bln first-quarter budget deficit

Russia's federal budget balance sank to a deficit of 2.4 trillion roubles ($29 billion) in the first quarter of the year as Moscow spent heavily and energy revenues fell, the finance ministry said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

Russia's Economy Contracts 1.9% In First Quarter

Russia's gross domestic product shrank by 1.9 percent in the first quarter of 2023, the country's statistics agency Rosstat said Wednesday.

www.barrons.com

Russia's economic stats are 'pure invention from Putin's imagination,' and its economy is actually imploding, Yale researchers say

Russia's economic growth forecasts are a figment of Putin's imagination, two Yale academics say, arguing the Kremlin is cherry-picking stats.

markets.businessinsider.com

Russia's finances are 'in the shit,' says a former Russian economy minister

He said at an industry event that while McDonald's can be replaced by blinis — or Russian pancakes — there are no substitutes for high-tech products.

www.businessinsider.com

UK economy to fare worse than any other country in developed world this year, IMF forecasts

The International Monetary Fund says the country's growth is being held back by more miserly government spending and the effects of high energy prices - and that the economy will even lag behind Russia's in 2023.

news.sky.com

 

[Rogue Valley]

UK economy to fare worse than any other country in developed world this year, IMF forecasts

The International Monetary Fund says the country's growth is being held back by more miserly government spending and the effects of high energy prices - and that the economy will even lag behind Russia's in 2023.

news.sky.com

From your source above....

In the latest update of its economic forecasts, the IMF said that it expected the UK's gross domestic product (GDP) to contract by 0.6% in 2023.

Russia economic forecast from GlobalData....

Russia economy to contract by 2% in 2023, forecasts GlobalData

 

[Juin]

From your source above....



Russia economic forecast from GlobalData....

Russia economy to contract by 2% in 2023, forecasts GlobalData

GlobalData doesnt come off as a something to take seriously. I followed the link to the website to find out more about them; the who is who. It was blank. Only info I could get was that it was founded in 2016

 

[PeteEU]

From your source above....



Russia economic forecast from GlobalData....

Russia economy to contract by 2% in 2023, forecasts GlobalData

The same IMF report said Russia would grow in 2023. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

The same IMF report said Russia would grow in 2023. Sorry to burst your bubble.

When we look at actual figures, a land mass as large as Russia having an economy only slightly bigger than Spain is nothing to brag about.

The UK which is the other country being singled out for a bit of rubbishing would fit into Russia 70 times but our economy is twice the size of Russia's.

 

[PeteEU]

When we look at actual figures, a land mass as large as Russia having an economy only slightly bigger than Spain is nothing to brag about.

The UK which is the other country being singled out for a bit of rubbishing would fit into Russia 70 times but our economy is twice the size of Russia's.

True true, but still dont change the IMF predictions. Personally I would say Albania is the sick man of Europe due to its narco economy.

Also Russia is a war economy, the UK is not.. even though the current Tories reallly want a war.. or so it seems.

And then there is of course the argument .. is Russia even European when 70%+ of its landmass is in Asia?

Or you could say.. what G20 country in Western Europe is the "sick man of Europe" and here the UK would win.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

True true, but still dont change the IMF predictions.

You know that up until recently, even the Russian banks and forecasting agencies were predicting really severe downturn for Russia. That was until Russia started exporting oil on Mongolian registered ships.

Or you could say.. what G20 country in Western Europe is the "sick man of Europe" and here the UK would win.

How about to make your hate for the UK complete - "what G20 country called UK is the "sick man of Europe?""

I'll give you 3 guesses.

 

[PeteEU]

You know that up until recently, even the Russian banks and forecasting agencies were predicting really severe downturn for Russia. That was until Russia started exporting oil on Mongolian registered ships.

Yea and sell way more to India and China.

How about to make your hate for the UK complete - "what G20 country called UK is the "sick man of Europe?""

I'll give you 3 guesses.

No that is not true. I dont hate the UK.. I hate the current Tories. Big difference. Fact is, if we go by all countries in Europe minus Russia and Turkey (are they European?), then I would say Albania is the sick man of Europe or Hungary. Albania because of its narco state status, Hungary because of its massive inflation and corruption.

But as you know, the "sick man of Europe" tag is usually put on major powers, which Albania and Hungary aint.

So in Europe that would be:

Italy - You could argue they have been the "sick man of Europe" for decades, but it is hard to justify because of their massive manufacturing industry.
Spain - Again you could argue they are, but the growth in Spain is huge at the moment.
France - Also a contender, but her economy is as always just "chucking along" on neutral.
Germany - Laughable to even consider.
Poland - New to the "powers", and has high growth (thanks EU), so not really sick (yet).
UK - And we are back to the UK. Falling exports, falling currency, stubborn high inflation, lack of access to markets, corruption that would make Saddam blush, companies fleeing the country. Sure unemployment is low, but there is a lack of workers and at the same time lack of growth... those 3 should not be combined. The budget deficit is high and debt is rising or not falling as it should be doing. There are so many negatives due to Brexit and the Tory corruption, that sorry.. but the UK is the only real contender for the "sick man of Europe" of the major powers.

Now if we add in Russia and Turkey, then it is a 3 way. All 3 are similar on so many fronts. Corruption, high inflation, low growth, falling currency and so on.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Yea and sell way more to India and China.

At bargain basement prices. I posted a story on this elsewhere, China can almost dictate the price it wants to pay for Russian energy.

No that is not true. I dont hate the UK..

When was the last time you posted anything complimentary about the UK and what was it?

France - Also a contender, but her economy is as always just "chucking along" on neutral.
---
UK - And we are back to the UK.

So... before Brexit, the UK and France regularly swapped places on the global economy scale and the last 1-2 years it's exactly the same. Some years France has higher GDP and other years it's the UK but we are both similar population size and yet the UK is the sick man while France is "chucking along on neutral....."

Try and be honest man.

 

[PeteEU]

At bargain basement prices. I posted a story on this elsewhere, China can almost dictate the price it wants to pay for Russian energy.

A sale is a sale.

When was the last time you posted anything complimentary about the UK and what was it?

When was there anything complimentary to talk about the UK? The UK support of Ukraine? Funny how that support totally killed any talk and investigations into UK - Russia links eh? Amazing how Brits forgot that Russians own half of Chelsea and other posh places in London. Bit yea good on the UK giving weapons and training to Ukraine.. happy now, and won't even dig into that.

So... before Brexit, the UK and France regularly swapped places on the global economy scale and the last 1-2 years it's exactly the same. Some years France has higher GDP and other years it's the UK but we are both similar population size and yet the UK is the sick man while France is "chucking along on neutral....."

Try and be honest man.

Since when has GDP anything to do with this?

And considering the Tory claims of best economy in Europe and all that, then the UK should have been miles ahead of France.. it ain't.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

A sale is a sale.

Have you ever run a business? Having to sell your product at below market rate ain't good for business.

When was there anything complimentary to talk about the UK?

No that is not true. I dont hate the UK..

I leave you with your own words.

Since when has GDP anything to do with this?

OK, give me the facts on the UK economy vs the French economy that makes France "OK" and the UK is the "sick man of the G7..."

 

[PeteEU]

Have you ever run a business? Having to sell your product at below market rate ain't good for business.

As long as it is above production cost, which it is.

I leave you with your own words.

And you have yet to state anything positive about the UK for say the last 14 years.

OK, give me the facts on the UK economy vs the French economy that makes France "OK" and the UK is the "sick man of the G7..."

Fact, UK minister constantly saying the UK has the best growth, and all that. Fact the UK has not massively out grown France who we all know has a questionable economic strategy due to insane labour laws.

And you skip out on some inconvenient truths. Low unemployment and lack of workers, high inflation and next to no growth. That combination along with political and economical scandals .. Covid waste/corruption that is larger than the UK defence budget.. and you have all the signs of the "Sick man of Europe".

Compare the UK to the end of the Ottoman Empire and you will see a huge amount of similarities.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

As long as it is above production cost, which it is.

It's still below world prices.

And you have yet to state anything positive about the UK for say the last 14 years.

There's a slider on this World Bank page

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

- scale it back 15 years and you'll see two major dips. One is 2008 and the other is Covid related.
The bit in between is a consistent functioning economy and then the bit after Covid is pretty good.

Then if you look at Statista here

GDP of Europe's biggest economies 1980-2028 | Statista

Since 1980, Europe's largest economies have consistently been France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the United Kingdom, although the former Soviet Union's economy was the largest in the 1980s, and Russia's economy has been larger than Spain's since 2010.

www.statista.com

The UK is the black dotted line.

UK minister constantly saying the UK has the best growth

Ministers always blag. Everywhere across the Western World, yet only the British ministers raise your ire.

Just admit that you hate the UK.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The same IMF report said Russia would grow in 2023. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Bucket of Fail as always.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

NO European country poses a greater threat to the free world than Russia. Yes, there may be corruption in other countries, but last I heard, other countries are not invading each other. Nothing compares to Russia.

So, answering the thread question, that would be Putin.

Yeah.

Russia is Europe's United States.

 

[Rogue Valley]

When was the last time you posted anything complimentary about the UK and what was it?

Or, putting it another way, when was the last time Pete had anything negative to say about Russia?

I cerainly don't remember any such utterance.

 

[PeteEU]

It's still below world prices.

And?

Ministers always blag. Everywhere across the Western World, yet only the British ministers raise your ire.

Actually no.. ministers don't state in Parliament that the country is the best at something because as soon as they do, the opposition and media pull them apart. Not to mention it would be a lie which could land them in legal problems.

Just admit that you hate the UK.

I don't. My best friends are British.

 

[PeteEU]

Or, putting it another way, when was the last time Pete had anything negative to say about Russia?

I cerainly don't remember any such utterance.

That's because you read only what you want to read.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

And?

yeah, I forgot. They have to smuggle their product out as well to avoid the sanctions but I guess that's OK?

Actually no..

Yes they do, American and other representatives of the people have exaggerated national success. Happens all the time.

I don't. My best friends are British.

Nothing about the country again. I asked when you ever said anything good about the UK and you have singularly avoided it.

That's because you read only what you want to read.

He wasn't wrong though, was he? 4 posts ago, I asked you to prove you didn't hate the UK and nothing has come back yet.

 

[Rogue Valley]

That's because you read only what you want to read.

I read everything you post. And I digest everything you post.

At bare minimum, you're an apologist for Russia. Not sure yet how far back your Russia apologetics go.

 

[Rumpel]

Fish are dying again in the River Oder ,have you heard