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Who cares how prisons are run, how prisoners are treated?

1) Its not an either or situation. Good men also provide these things
2) Good for her
3) Move to where it does
4) Yes there are, just a matter of looking

There are always good choices in life. Problem is we often dont make them
Taking your son to a homeless shelter isn't a good choice. It's a choice you make when you have no other options left. If there had been any good men around willing to take care of us, she would have been with them. But there weren't. My mother did the best she could. Sometimes there are no good choices.
 
The U.S. prison system assumes that the best way to teach criminals to act like civilized human beings is to throw them in a cage and treat them like animals for a while.

What a friggin' joke.
 
If we stopped jailing people for reasons of mental illness, poverty, and civil infractions, then solitary confinement for true violent offenders might be more supported.

But that's not how we operate. We jail everyone we can get away with jailing (especially minorities) and expect their circumstances to improve once they've been taught their lesson. Too bad we're just labeling them and then teaching them how to fulfill their new label once released.
 
I care. Listen to the Wrongful Conviction podcast if you don't. It's ****ing A terrifying.
It's much, much easier to just assume that if they're in prison they belong there.
 
I am 100% in favor of reforming our prison system.

People come out of prison bigger criminals than before they went in. That's bad for society.

Some people end up in prison because they made a bad choice when they had no good choices available to them.

Prison should be designed to help them from coming back after they are released.
Or maybe they ended up in prison because they were stupid. Either way, prison should be thought of as rehabilitation first, punishment second (for the people who really ****ed up, like the drunk driver who killed a family), and quarantine last (for the narcissistic psychopaths who probably can't be rehabilitated).

(I'm agreeing with you, btw).
 
Taking your son to a homeless shelter isn't a good choice. It's a choice you make when you have no other options left. If there had been any good men around willing to take care of us, she would have been with them. But there weren't. My mother did the best she could. Sometimes there are no good choices.

how many men did your mom approach each day to go on a date? if it's less than 100 she was slacking.

there is always lonely men, who would love to have a woman share their bed at night.

the most ugliest women alive will have her dating profile flooded with willing men.

please, the notion that no decent man would care for you and your mom is crazy.
 
how many men did your mom approach each day to go on a date? if it's less than 100 she was slacking.

there is always lonely men, who would love to have a woman share their bed at night.

the most ugliest women alive will have her dating profile flooded with willing men.

please, the notion that no decent man would care for you and your mom is crazy.
Exactly how many decent, financially stable, eligible bachelors do you think there are in impoverished, rural, backwoods America? Let me give you a hint: it's not many. I doubt there were a hundred such men in the entire county, let alone ones that would be interested in supporting a single mom and her child. Even if there were, you think my mother should have whored herself out to any man, just to pay the bills? That would have been a "good choice", according to you? It was that kind of thinking that got us stuck in an abusive household in the first place.
 
Exactly how many decent, financially stable, eligible bachelors do you think there are in impoverished, rural, backwoods America? Let me give you a hint: it's not many. I doubt there were a hundred such men in the entire county, let alone ones that would be interested in supporting a single mom and her child. Even if there were, you think my mother should have whored herself out to any man, just to pay the bills? That would have been a "good choice", according to you? It was that kind of thinking that got us stuck in an abusive household in the first place.

who exactly was keeping your mom against her will in impoverished rural backwoods america?

last i checked this isn't n. korea, we have freedom of movement

literally homeless people hitch hike across the country

no one said anything about whoring out. that's prostitution. sex for money.

it's a relationship. man provides for the family and the woman does her womanly/motherly duties.
 
"The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
A friend was wrongly jailed for something he didn't do in Arkansas. The way he described it, it was a 3rd world hell hole. I also believe he was framed by local law enforcement and his lawyer and the judge were in cahoots. He's free now after spending $60,000 dollars on a lawyer, jail, and other penalties.
 
Countries (like Germany and Sweden) that treat prisoners humanely and emphasize rehabilitation have a lower recidivism rate.

That is because other nations realized, a long way back, there was a better method to dealing with crime by breaking the cycle instead of what we do here which is encourage repeat offender status and eventually output people with no skills and no aptitude to reenter society.

There is a reason we are the incarceration capitol of the planet, we are governed by corrupt idiots in bed with all the wrong people when it comes to dealing with prisoners.
 
who exactly was keeping your mom against her will in impoverished rural backwoods america?
Gee, I don't know, maybe it was her ABUSIVE BOYFRIEND.

last i checked this isn't n. korea, we have freedom of movement

literally homeless people hitch hike across the country
So now you think we should have hitchhiked across the country? A single mother and her child? Yeah, that sounds safe.

no one said anything about whoring out. that's prostitution. sex for money.

it's a relationship. man provides for the family and the woman does her womanly/motherly duties.
If only every man took their familial responsibilities so seriously. This is the real world, where people have to make the best of what they have. Not what they wish they had.
 
Gee, I don't know, maybe it was her ABUSIVE BOYFRIEND.
he didn't work? he watched your mom 24/7? he locked your mom in a room with no window? no way to call the police?
So now you think we should have hitchhiked across the country? A single mother and her child? Yeah, that sounds safe.
I think one needs to do what they need to do to make a better life for themselves and family.

prob safer than staying with a mental woman abuser
If only every man took their familial responsibilities so seriously. This is the real world, where people have to make the best of what they have. Not what they wish they had.
plenty of men provide for women
 
he didn't work? he watched your mom 24/7? he locked your mom in a room with no window? no way to call the police?
He might as well have. We were trapped. He controlled every aspect of our lives. My mom had to move mountains to get us out from under his thumb.
I think one needs to do what they need to do to make a better life for themselves and family.
That's exactly what she did. It meant making some very difficult choices. We both had to make sacrifices. We both suffered.

prob safer than staying with a mental woman abuser

plenty of men provide for women
And where were these good men when we needed them most? No one was lining up to take care of us.
 
It's much, much easier to just assume that if they're in prison they belong there.
My least favorite is "He'll get his in prison." No. That was not the sentence, and if vigilante shit happens in prison, the warden should be fired. We are the number one nation for incarceration rates. Other inmates should not be able to dole out random punishments.
 
He might as well have. We were trapped. He controlled every aspect of our lives. My mom had to move mountains to get us out from under his thumb.
You were not trapped. However, your mom could have felt that way.
That's exactly what she did. It meant making some very difficult choices. We both had to make sacrifices. We both suffered.
So she had a choice. What are we discussing again?
And where were these good men when we needed them most? No one was lining up to take care of us.
Men don't just line up. As I said, your mom needed to move to a populous city and then approach 100 men a day asking them out on a date.
 
A friend was wrongly jailed for something he didn't do in Arkansas. The way he described it, it was a 3rd world hell hole. I also believe he was framed by local law enforcement and his lawyer and the judge were in cahoots. He's free now after spending $60,000 dollars on a lawyer, jail, and other penalties.
Sorry to hear it. I'd encourage him to report it to a group like the ACLU, the media, and see if a lawyer things he has a way to challenge it. And their legislators.
 
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You were not trapped. However, your mom could have felt that way.
I was trapped, because I was a child. She was trapped, because she needed him to support herself and her child.
So she had a choice. What are we discussing again?
She had choices. Just not good ones. Only bad ones, and less bad ones.

Men don't just line up. As I said, your mom needed to move to a populous city and then approach 100 men a day asking them out on a date.
Leaving our house to be homeless in the big city on the off chance that we could find a man to take care of us isn't the great solution that you seem to think it is. Again, I can tell that you have suffered no real adversity in your life, or you wouldn't be saying such stupid things.
 
I've often questioned how much sense prisons for most really make. They're not just punishing but damaging to people. It seems like a complicated topic.

If you look at the history hundreds of years, how much of the situation had people returned from jail to farmlands, while today they are usually in urban settings left without good options?

Punishment and deterrence seem needed, but looking for alternative ideas, the obvious one is questionable, pain. E.g., lashes. Not sure that would or should be considered.

We also need some locked up for society's benefit, but most not as much. It's just for punishment. There's probably a reason some places have sort of penal colonies like England shipped people to Australia or Russia to Siberia.

There are 'bad options', but one of those seems the current system, massive jail for millions of Americans.
 
My least favorite is "He'll get his in prison." No. That was not the sentence, and if vigilante shit happens in prison, the warden should be fired. We are the number one nation for incarceration rates. Other inmates should not be able to dole out random punishments.
Unfortunately the punishment continues after they've done their time. Conviction can mean a lifetime of underemployment as a record can bar them from even janitorial jobs.
 
They way I see it, a drug dealer may not be violent, but he's often able to cause more harm than someone who is.
You're still missing the point....a lot of people are in prison for drug possession, not dealing.

Being a draconian law & order "tough guy" solves absolutely nothing. If that were true, then we would have no ****ing crime in this country because many, if not most, of our prisons our total hell holes.
 
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Unfortunately the punishment continues after they've done their time. Conviction can mean a lifetime of underemployment as a record can bar them from even janitorial jobs.
Yep. I've got kids, and I am worried about how to explain to them that a simple ****up can follow you for life. I'm worried, because I don't think that I could have explained that to myself as a kid. I have had to submit to full background checks and even consumer history checks to get jobs in my field. If something pops up, the next person in line gets the call.
 
I've often questioned how much sense prisons for most really make. They're not just punishing but damaging to people. It seems like a complicated topic.

If you look at the history hundreds of years, how much of the situation had people returned from jail to farmlands, while today they are usually in urban settings left without good options?

Punishment and deterrence seem needed, but looking for alternative ideas, the obvious one is questionable, pain. E.g., lashes. Not sure that would or should be considered.

We also need some locked up for society's benefit, but most not as much. It's just for punishment. There's probably a reason some places have sort of penal colonies like England shipped people to Australia or Russia to Siberia.

There are 'bad options', but one of those seems the current system, massive jail for millions of Americans.
Do non violent offenders even need to be imprisoned? Germany and other European countries avoid doing so, relying on fines and community service for offenders who aren't a danger to the public.
 
You're still missing the point....a lot of people are in prison for drug possession, not dealing.

Being a draconian law & order "tough guy" solves absolutely nothing. If that were true, then we would have no ****ing crime in this country because many, if not most, of our prison our total hell holes.
I'm open to other solutions for drug possession. The libertarian in me says if you want to destroy your body and mind with narcotics and the like, it should be your prerogative. The question I always struggle with is how much of the burden from the consequences of those choices should be placed on others.
 
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