White House Vetting GOP Centrist Gov. Brian Sandoval for SCOTUS

[JoeTrumps]

yeah, if you think for half a second, after the last seven years, that Obama would consider nominating a republican? you are missing the supreme arrogance and contempt Obama has for republicans, which has been on display 24/7.

it won't happen. he isn't the most divisive president since Nixon for nothing. He'll give the middle finger to republicans till his last day in office. trust me on this. to do something for the "greater good" isn't in the man's character.

 

[Master PO]

i would love to have the term "centrist" explained to me by the right and the left.

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't know much about the guy. I do know a bit about supreme court issues. This guy was a district judge for a few years. A district judge is a very different position than being an appellate judge District judges have to make snap decisions on objections or evidentiary rulings that pop up in trials. Appellate judges have lots of time to consider issues of law

that being said, at first blush, this guy's resume is very thin for a supreme court justice. He went to a good but not top of the line law school. Unlike 6th Circuit judge Jeffrey Sutton (whose name gets thrown around a lot as a potential GOP nominee) who also went to Ohio State, this guy didn't do what Sutton did-set the curve at OSU graduating first in his class (as he had at Williams) and then clerking for a USSC Justice. He hasn't had any credentials as a real legal scholar like Kagan had who also had very little experience. I am taking no consideration of his political positions which are probably closer to my own than many other potential picks.

My view-he just doesn't have the academic and professional credentials for what should be a slot for the very best of the best legal scholars and appellate judges

 

[OpportunityCost]

I don't know much about the guy. I do know a bit about supreme court issues. This guy was a district judge for a few years. A district judge is a very different position than being an appellate judge District judges have to make snap decisions on objections or evidentiary rulings that pop up in trials. Appellate judges have lots of time to consider issues of law

that being said, at first blush, this guy's resume is very thin for a supreme court justice. He went to a good but not top of the line law school. Unlike 6th Circuit judge Jeffrey Sutton (whose name gets thrown around a lot as a potential GOP nominee) who also went to Ohio State, this guy didn't do what Sutton did-set the curve at OSU graduating first in his class (as he had at Williams) and then clerking for a USSC Justice. He hasn't had any credentials as a real legal scholar like Kagan had who also had very little experience. I am taking no consideration of his political positions which are probably closer to my own than many other potential picks.

My view-he just doesn't have the academic and professional credentials for what should be a slot for the very best of the best legal scholars and appellate judges

OSU is a good legal school, but no appellate experience at all? Yikes.

 

[Absentglare]

I don't know much about the guy. I do know a bit about supreme court issues. This guy was a district judge for a few years. A district judge is a very different position than being an appellate judge District judges have to make snap decisions on objections or evidentiary rulings that pop up in trials. Appellate judges have lots of time to consider issues of law

that being said, at first blush, this guy's resume is very thin for a supreme court justice. He went to a good but not top of the line law school. Unlike 6th Circuit judge Jeffrey Sutton (whose name gets thrown around a lot as a potential GOP nominee) who also went to Ohio State, this guy didn't do what Sutton did-set the curve at OSU graduating first in his class (as he had at Williams) and then clerking for a USSC Justice. He hasn't had any credentials as a real legal scholar like Kagan had who also had very little experience. I am taking no consideration of his political positions which are probably closer to my own than many other potential picks.

My view-he just doesn't have the academic and professional credentials for what should be a slot for the very best of the best legal scholars and appellate judges

Interesting, that would seem to support Thrilla's theory that this is a rumor meant to do nothing more than make republicans look bad.

The matter of graduating at the top of your class doesn't hold too much water for me.

 

[Moderate Right]

They will also lose most of the independents they have.

I'm actually one of those independents who will be ticked off at their stupidity but I can't vote for Hillary or Bernie either.

 

[TurtleDude]

OSU is a good legal school, but no appellate experience at all? Yikes.

OSU might be the best law school in ohio But some rank CWRU and or U of Cincinnati Better. I didn't even consider OSU -it was ranked behind my backup schools (Duke, Texas and UNC at Chapel Hill). Its a very good school if you plan on practicing in Ohio. Why that guy came all the way to OSU is an interesting question. It appears him being an elected Republican and Hispanic is the main issues

Remember when the dems went bonkers over Harriet Miers? Well she went to SMU which was a law school about the same league as OSU. She was top of her class and an editor on the Law Review. She also was, IIRC, a partner in a major league law firm and the first woman president of the area's bar association. But she was panned as not having gone to a top 3 or at least a top 5 law school and having no appellate experience

BTW most people i know who are appellate advocates and practice before the high level appellate courts (DC circuit, First, second, Fourth, Sixth etc) believe top flight constitutional law professors are far more likely to be top appellate judges than say trial judges or politicians.

 

[TurtleDude]

Interesting, that would seem to support Thrilla's theory that this is a rumor meant to do nothing more than make republicans look bad.

The matter of graduating at the top of your class doesn't hold too much water for me.

for trial judges I would agree with you, for appellate judges which is really an academic exercise of extremely rigorous examinations of the law, I disagree. BTW how many federal appellate cases have you briefed or argued?

 

[OpportunityCost]

OSU might be the best law school in ohio But some rank CWRU and or U of Cincinnati Better. I didn't even consider OSU -it was ranked behind my backup schools (Duke, Texas and UNC at Chapel Hill). Its a very good school if you plan on practicing in Ohio. Why that guy came all the way to OSU is an interesting question. It appears him being an elected Republican and Hispanic is the main issues

Remember when the dems went bonkers over Harriet Miers? Well she went to SMU which was a law school about the same league as OSU. She was top of her class and an editor on the Law Review. She also was, IIRC, a partner in a major league law firm and the first woman president of the area's bar association. But she was panned as not having gone to a top 3 or at least a top 5 law school and having no appellate experience

BTW most people i know who are appellate advocates and practice before the high level appellate courts (DC circuit, First, second, Fourth, Sixth etc) believe top flight constitutional law professors are far more likely to be top appellate judges than say trial judges or politicians.

Didn't Taft go there? Sorry Im being lazy about looking it up :lol:

 

[TurtleDude]

Didn't Taft go there? Sorry Im being lazy about looking it up :lol:

Taft went to the U of Cincinnati Law school after Yale.

You have to understand something as well: its only in the last 40 or so years that the USSC justices became almost exclusively law review editors from the very top law schools. Stephens was the last Justice who went to a law school that is not consistently ranked in the top 5. And Northwestern is still on everyone's list of major league top of the line national law schools. But like Duke, Chicago, Cornell, Michigan, UVa, and NYU, it doesn't seem to get much respect when it comes to USSC because those schools are perceived as being where you go when you DO NOT get into Harvard, Yale or Stanford

 

[OpportunityCost]

Taft went to the U of Cincinnati Law school after Yale.

You have to understand something as well: its only in the last 40 or so years that the USSC justices became almost exclusively law review editors from the very top law schools. Stephens was the last Justice who went to a law school that is not consistently ranked in the top 5. And Northwestern is still on everyone's list of major league top of the line national law schools. But like Duke, Chicago, Cornell, Michigan, UVa, and NYU, it doesn't seem to get much respect when it comes to USSC because those schools are perceived as being where you go when you DO NOT get into Harvard, Yale or Stanford

Yeah Stanford is the only one with the same gravitas as the Ivy Leagues, well Northwestern but its a bit lower in prestige consideration.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yeah Stanford is the only one with the same gravitas as the Ivy Leagues, well Northwestern but its a bit lower in prestige consideration.

The usual rankings go like this

Yale
Harvard

Chicago-Columbia-Stanford

then Michigan, Duke, Cornell, Penn, NYU, UVa

the Chicago, Stanford Columbia ratings move around

Michigan and UVa are interesting because the credentials to get in out of state are extreme meaning people who get into Harvard or Columbia may be rejected by Michigan or UVa while in state acceptances into those two state schools are generally going to be turned down at any of the other top ten or 15 schools.

as one of my friends from rural Va (who went to UVa law) said to me when we were discussing our law school choices-

well UVa is 90% guys like me and 10% smart Jewish boys or Yankees like you but the Law review is 90% guys like You and 10% guys like me!

 

[Absentglare]

for trial judges I would agree with you, for appellate judges which is really an academic exercise of extremely rigorous examinations of the law, I disagree. BTW how many federal appellate cases have you briefed or argued?

Irrelevant.

Time spent in law school is a relatively small sliver of someone's life with which to judge their comprehensive usefulness.

 

[TurtleDude]

Irrelevant.

Time spent in law school is a relatively small sliver of someone's life with which to judge their comprehensive usefulness.

so tell us why the last 9 justices all went to Harvard, Yale or Stanford and all but one was an editor of the law review

 

[Hatuey]

Sandoval may have an R beside his name, but he's currently in the doghouse bigtime with republican voters. That's why he didn't endorse last night, merely made a statement of support. Because his endorsement is currently kryptonite. The senate repubs will have no problem refusing him.

Lulwut? I don't think you thought out this sentence too well.

 

[Chomsky]

Taft went to the U of Cincinnati Law school after Yale.

You have to understand something as well: its only in the last 40 or so years that the USSC justices became almost exclusively law review editors from the very top law schools. Stephens was the last Justice who went to a law school that is not consistently ranked in the top 5. And Northwestern is still on everyone's list of major league top of the line national law schools. But like Duke, Chicago, Cornell, Michigan, UVa, and NYU, it doesn't seem to get much respect when it comes to USSC because those schools are perceived as being where you go when you DO NOT get into Harvard, Yale or Stanford

I think you might be accurate in the bolded assessment.

It's been my pleasure to have had a personal & professional association with NU (not in law), and can attest that amongst the undergrads at least, there's a large contingent of students that are there because they *DIDN'T* get into an Ivy - and some are openly unhappy about it! This is particularly prevalent with the influx of students from the east coast, and has been a point of annoyance for some of their fellow students.

That being said, at one time in the late '80's into the 90's Kellogg was ranked extremely competitively with Harvard Business, and it's over-all a pretty decent university offering a top-flight education in a great setting!

 

[danarhea]

I'm actually one of those independents who will be ticked off at their stupidity but I can't vote for Hillary or Bernie either.

Gary Johnson, Libertarian Party.... Hint, hint.

 

[TurtleDude]

I think you might be accurate in the bolded assessment.

It's been my pleasure to have had a personal & professional association with NU (not in law), and can attest that amongst the undergrads at least, there's a large contingent of students that are there because they *DIDN'T* get into an Ivy - and some are openly unhappy about it! This is particularly prevalent with the influx of students from the east coast, and has been a point of annoyance for some of their fellow students.

That being said, at one time in the late '80's into the 90's Kellogg was ranked extremely competitively with Harvard Business, and it's over-all a pretty decent university offering a top-flight education in a great setting!

its amazing how a school's ranking can change. IN the winter of 1980, Cornell Law was up to five in the national rankings. The board of regents had really made an effort to boost the rankings of what was always a top flight school that was attractive to many since it wasn't in a big city. well at that time there was a search for a new Dean and several major league talents (and Egos) were fighting for the position including the top evidence professor in probably history-One Irving Younger. well the powers that be chose a non-controversial guy from my hometown who was a solid law professor but not an international superstar-One Peter Martin. due to that, Younger went from full professor to adjunct professor (took a position with Williams and connolly)another big Ego,Norm Penny left (only to be murdered in DC) and a third guy who I don't recall left as well dropping Cornell down to 9 or 10 in the rankings. Cornell was one of my top choices and I remember Dean of Admissions Anne Lukingbeal calling me and several of my other friends who had been offered admissions as Yale undergrads trying to assure us that Cornell was still among the very best

some of those ranking factors are silly-number of volumes in the Library or % of alumni who give money etc. But there is no doubt that Yale is the most selective of all the law schools with Stanford Harvard and then chicago being next. and many people vetting USSC justice candidates figure if you didn't get into at least Stanford, you weren't the best of the best

 

[Chomsky]

its amazing how a school's ranking can change. IN the winter of 1980, Cornell Law was up to five in the national rankings. The board of regents had really made an effort to boost the rankings of what was always a top flight school that was attractive to many since it wasn't in a big city. well at that time there was a search for a new Dean and several major league talents (and Egos) were fighting for the position including the top evidence professor in probably history-One Irving Younger. well the powers that be chose a non-controversial guy from my hometown who was a solid law professor but not an international superstar-One Peter Martin. due to that, Younger went from full professor to adjunct professor (took a position with Williams and connolly)another big Ego,Norm Penny left (only to be murdered in DC) and a third guy who I don't recall left as well dropping Cornell down to 9 or 10 in the rankings. Cornell was one of my top choices and I remember Dean of Admissions Anne Lukingbeal calling me and several of my other friends who had been offered admissions as Yale undergrads trying to assure us that Cornell was still among the very best

some of those ranking factors are silly-number of volumes in the Library or % of alumni who give money etc. But there is no doubt that Yale is the most selective of all the law schools with Stanford Harvard and then chicago being next. and many people vetting USSC justice candidates figure if you didn't get into at least Stanford, you weren't the best of the best

Interesting.

You've pretty much validated my (law school) outsider's understanding.

I've always heard: Yale for clerkships (esp SC), Harvard for Wall Street, and Chicago if you "don't want an easy 'A'"!

Chicago has an amazing undergrad program though; they take 'the life of the mind' pretty dayem seriously, even in the most basic pedestrian classes! I can honestly say I never met a Chicago undergrad that wasn't smart and more importantly very well educated in both breadth & depth.

And oddly, I also know a young man that very recently graduated top of his class from Chicago Law (top 10%), took a well paying offer (staying in Chicago), and just now announced he's done with major law firms, and resigned from his position! Wow! His parents are not happy at all. And dad's a prominent politically connected attorney!

Life can be strange.

 

[Absentglare]

so tell us why the last 9 justices all went to Harvard, Yale or Stanford and all but one was an editor of the law review

What does that have to do with anything ?

The idea that these schools tend to produce more qualified candidates (if that is your claim) doesn't extend to claim that everyone else is so inferior so as to be beneath consideration.

 

[TurtleDude]

What does that have to do with anything ?

The idea that these schools tend to produce more qualified candidates (if that is your claim) doesn't extend to claim that everyone else is so inferior so as to be beneath consideration.

its not MY claim, its what BOTH PARTIES have done over the last 30+ years

 

[TurtleDude]

Interesting.

You've pretty much validated my (law school) outsider's understanding.

I've always heard: Yale for clerkships (esp SC), Harvard for Wall Street, and Chicago if you "don't want an easy 'A'"!

Chicago has an amazing undergrad program though; they take 'the life of the mind' pretty dayem seriously, even in the most basic pedestrian classes! I can honestly say I never met a Chicago undergrad that wasn't smart and more importantly very well educated in both breadth & depth.

And oddly, I also know a young man that very recently graduated top of his class from Chicago Law (top 10%), took a well paying offer (staying in Chicago), and just now announced he's done with major law firms, and resigned from his position! Wow! His parents are not happy at all. And dad's a prominent politically connected attorney!

Life can be strange.

Chicago was the only major school that interviewed candidates Not all. about 50 got in without an interview. Most people were turned down since only about 15-20% were accepted when I was applying. but Dean Richard Badger (circa 1981) would interview those who would fill out most of the positions. I learned a lot from him in the interview (plus that I was going to be offered a place). Some really brilliant students went there including one of the smartest people I ever met at Yale-Federalist Society Founder Lee Liberman (Otis). Chicago had a reputation for turning out legal scholars. Cornell for turning out top wall street attorneys Yale-law professors. Harvard was so big-everything. But U of C was seen as an academic law school while Cornell and Columbia were seen as "professional schools" turning out practicing attorneys.

 

[Eric7216]

Seems a little premature, then. Isn't there enough angry and dissent without throwing in some hypothetical just to arouse more dissent?

 

[Anthony60]

With the clown who appears to be headed for the GOP nomination, Hillary will be the next president. The GOP's only hope is for a brokered convention, and nominating Marco Rubio.

Your girl Hillary is not looking too good. She was supposed to be rid of Sanders bye now. Under performing again. That seems to be a common trait of hers, in both jobs and elections. What's with that? Why so optimistic?

Now there's Trump, looking to be her Obama '08 in this election, the monkey in the wrench, all her plans laid to waste again. I don't know why you people think she is an automatic win, when she's done nothing but disappoint, time after time.

 

[Chomsky]

Chicago was the only major school that interviewed candidates Not all. about 50 got in without an interview. Most people were turned down since only about 15-20% were accepted when I was applying. but Dean Richard Badger (circa 1981) would interview those who would fill out most of the positions. I learned a lot from him in the interview (plus that I was going to be offered a place). Some really brilliant students went there including one of the smartest people I ever met at Yale-Federalist Society Founder Lee Liberman (Otis). Chicago had a reputation for turning out legal scholars. Cornell for turning out top wall street attorneys Yale-law professors. Harvard was so big-everything. But U of C was seen as an academic law school while Cornell and Columbia were seen as "professional schools" turning out practicing attorneys.

Interesting, because I was aware there were Federalist Society connections to Chicago, but that's about it. Chicago actually has some conservative chops, including in economics with Milton Friedman et al. I've got nothing but respect for U of C as a whole, though.

I wasn't aware of Cornell Law's stature, though. I'm so used to hearing YHS ... Chicago, ... etc ...

But as to Yale, I always heard of their propensity for producing SC Justices.

Just wondering: What did you think of the U of C Campus?