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Lets go over some basic math you seem to be lacking. Okay, we know that the top 1% are the richest blah blah blah. Alright, under the conservative philosophy, everyone, if they make the right decisions, can become a millionaire. How is that true? It isn't, 1% can't be expanded, it will always be the 1% unless we redistribute the wealth.
So 1% cannot expand? We have 140 million working Americans today with a workforce of 154 million. Are you telling me tha 1% of 140 million is the same as 1% of 154 million? The 1% won't change but the actual number making up that one percent can and does change. Think Zuckerman was on that list a few years ago? A lot more self made millionaires created each year and there is plenty of room for you if you have the right attitude and get away from that negative entitlement mentality.
So 1% cannot expand?
But there isn't room for everybody who tries. Just 1%. You're trying the ever growing pie argument again.
How is 1% going to expand? Yes, it can gain a few more people, but it will still be 1%. That would only be true though if we gained population. It still means 99% of the people in the US aren't in the 1%, and I wonder how many of those think they have a shot of being in the 1% because of people like you.
How am I preventing you from being in that top 1%?
What entitles you to the spoils of my labor?
But there isn't room for everybody who tries. Just 1%. You're trying the ever growing pie argument again.
AMERICANS are an optimistic lot. If there is one thing they believe in above all, it is the ability to move ahead. In poll after poll, a majority reject the notion that success is determined by forces beyond their control. In early 2009, hardly a sunny period, 71% still agreed that hard work and personal skill are the main ingredients for success. A high degree of social mobility has always defined American culture, from the work of Alexis de Tocqueville and Horatio Alger to the remarkable story of Barack Obama himself.
But the reality for most Americans is becoming more complicated. The recession came at the end of a period marked by record levels of inequality. Many Americans, lacking true upward mobility, bought its trappings, such as a bigger house or better car. Disaster duly followed. As a result, American optimism has been pierced by doubt. In a new poll for The Economist by YouGov, 36% of respondents said they had less opportunity than their parents did, compared with 39% who thought they had more. Half thought the next generation would have a lower standard of living, double the share that thought living standards would rise. As the country recovers, two problems cloud its future. Rates of social mobility are unlikely to grow. Inequality, however, may widen even further.
These trends have been building up for years. In 1963 John Kennedy declared that a rising tide lifts all boats. Indeed, in 1963 this was true. Between 1947 and 1973, the typical American family’s income roughly doubled in real terms. Between 1973 and 2007, however, it grew by only 22%—and this thanks to the rise of two-worker households. In 2004 men in their 30s earned 12% less in real terms than their fathers did at a similar age, according to Pew’s Economic Mobility Project. This has been blamed on everything from immigration to trade to declining rates of unionisation. But the driving factor, most economists agree, has been technological change and the consequent lowering of demand for middle-skilled workers.
The most highly skilled, meanwhile, have stuffed their pockets happily. Between 1970 and 2008 the Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, grew from 0.39 to 0.47. In mid-2008 the typical family’s income was lower than it had been in 2000. The richest 10% earned nearly half of all income, surpassing even their share in 1928, the year before the Great Crash.
By you merely being in the top 1% lessens my odds of being in the top 1%.
Nothing, what entitles you not to pay enough taxes?
Is this the way you were raised and why are you then wasting your time in school if there is no opportunity for you in the future and this is your attitude towards individual wealth creation?
How do you know how much I pay in taxes, how much I give to charity, how much I donate to the Church?
You don't believe this is a problem in someone else claiming they know what someone else's fair share is?
1% of 140 million is 1.4 million people. 1% of 154 million is 1.54 million people or 140,000 more and that is today. As the population grows so does the 1%. Further you don't have to be in the 1% to be quite wealthy in all areas not just financial. I 35 years in the business world and did quite well. No one gave me anything other than the opportunity which I took advantage of. How am I preventing you from being in that top 1%? It is that kind of attitude that will assure you of reliance on the entitlement program for ever.
I always get a chuckle when those who tend to have failed personal economics 101 lecture those who got an A in that subject.
You might be interested in this article from the economist:.
Jryan;1059851638]Yes, I am proud to say this is the way I was raised, minuse one thing. If I did become rich I would find it to be my civil duty to give back to those who helped me along the way and gave me such a great place to live. IE, I would want the US to tax me and everyone else at my income level at 90% progressive taxation. I would not donate my money though if such tax did not exist because me donating 100 million dollars is a piss in a pond of 14.5 trillion dollars and rising.
How much you give to charity and to the church is your own business. Although I think it is a waste of time giving money to the church, but that is another discussion.
Yeah, obviously someone is mis-claiming that the top 1% are or are not paying their fair share.
Also, you gloated earlier in this thread about your income. Unless I misinterpreted that then feel free to correct me.
As you have been asked to you believe Zuckerman was on that original list of wealthiest people? That indicates that the pie is always growing. What are you doing to get your piece of the pie? I see a lot of people here whining but I assure you that will never get more of the pie whining. Those that have much of the pie today only get more of the growing pie if you allow it and don't compete.
All the graphs on income disparity clearly demonstrate that about 19%, have also benefitted from service to the 1%.
The overseer class.
This is what has produced the huge numbers of newly rich in southeast asia.
It appears these numbers are pretty constant globally and historically.
1-2% have most of the wealth, the next 18-19% share in this wealth in exchange for "managing" the lower 80%.
Prior to the mid 70s America was NOT following this pattern.
Since then we have been returning to the good old status quo.
Turtle, how do you define "those who got an A in that subject".... personal economics 101 that is? We have many who did get an A in the subject courtesy of Mumsy and Daddykins passing onto them the brilliance of their decisions and hard work to be born into that family. I guess we would call that a "legacy A"?
The pie is growing unfortunately the number of people taking slices of the pie has increased much faster, that means smaller pieces for everyone except for a few who control the distribution of the pie, I know/expect you under stand this but just in case lets say that in America we have 320 million people drawing from the pie and then we bring in 1.3 billion Indians and another 1.2 billion Chinese. Now lets say that the pie represents jobs and their are 1.2 billion jobs and 3 billion job seekers that means that 1.8 billion do not have a slice of the pie and it will not matter what that 1.8 million do even if they re-educate their selves and displace some of those working those workers that they replaced now take their place as unemployed or underemployed.
I question myself as to whether a global economy "pie" is a good or bad thing, short term it has hurt the american worker maybe long term "10-20 years" it would be good. I wonder if it is/was preventable but their is no way that anyone can deny the impact it has had on America's working middle class. Now those who have benefitted the most from the Chinese and Indian merging into the job pie are those who hand out the slices you know those that can invest in foreign markets. It seems that for some reason the Republicans and Wall Streeter's fight any effort to make the Chinese live up to the trade agreements and to bring their undervalued currency up
Senate moves toward final vote on China currency
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he wants a vote on legislation that could punish China for undervaluing its currency.
The bill is intended to impose enough trade penalties against China so Beijing will keep the yuan below market values.
The measure cleared an important procedural vote Thursday, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he wanted a vote on passage either late Thursday or Friday.
STORY: House leader against punishing China on currency
The White House has raised concerns about taking unilateral action against the Chinese. Multinational corporations that do business in China widely oppose the plan, fearing it could lead to a trade war.
But the legislation has bipartisan backing from senators responding to popular resentment to the way China has come to dominate U.S. markets and drive American manufacturers out of business.
Sen. Lindsey Graham, a Republican, cited estimates that China has cost the U.S. some 2 million manufacturing jobs in the past decade, and that the 30% advantage Chinese producers have because of the undervalued currency could prove devastating as China prepares to enter world markets in commercial aircraft and automobiles.
Economists agree that the yuan is undervalued by 25% to 30% against the dollar; some put it as high as 40%. The result is that Chinese goods are increasingly cheaper in the United States and U.S. products more expensive in China.
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said in a statement this week that the bill violated World Trade Organization rules "and seriously disturbed China-U.S. trade and economic relations."
Because of the support the Chinese receive from many republicans and Wall Streeters, The American worker can not compete against the low wages paid to foreign workers the Wall Streeter's and the many republicans supporting the Chinese
=Conservative;1059851694]Still waiting for your answer as to how my earning income and getting wealthy hurt you or your family? What is my fair share in the form of State, Local, and Federal Taxes? Your focus is misguided as you ignore the liberal greed to focus on what individuals make on their own.
First off I do not care what you make, you can't seem to under stand I am fine my family is fine we all worked and worked hard to make a living, my concern is for those less fortunate then I am, why because we are all part of the whole, not one of us could stand on our own. Maybe the difference is in where we came from the experiences we had that shaped our lives and opinions,
If you did not participate in the scams that Wall Street perpetrated on Americans stealing from the middle class, poor and elderly by speculating on life essential needs, by engaging in our profiting from predatory lending practices ect. In other words if you worked for a living I could care less about what you have
It seems to me that the greatness of America is that people on the lower rung of the economic ladder found ways to climb that ladder, rather than live in a caste system where people were constrained by their birth.
If the proposals from your side is that we no longer want people to aspire and find ways to move up the ladder, rather the way to achieve is to pull others down then that should be of great concern. This mindset of what we can't do and need to pull others down will not get us out of the problems we face in my view.
there are a very small percentage of those people you are describing but that doesn't stop you from stereotyping anyone that has more than you.
and it surely doesn't stop you from stereotyping those who have less than you.
If you want to pay 90% in taxes, do it, but why force everyone else to do the same thing?
Jryan;1059851836]Because one person paying 90% taxes does nothing.
there are a very small percentage of those people you are describing but that doesn't stop you from stereotyping anyone that has more than you.
Originally Posted by EarlzP
First off I do not care what you make, you can't seem to under stand I am fine my family is fine we all worked and worked hard to make a living, my concern is for those less fortunate then I am, why because we are all part of the whole, not one of us could stand on our own. Maybe the difference is in where we came from the experiences we had that shaped our lives and opinions,
If you did not participate in the scams that Wall Street perpetrated on Americans stealing from the middle class, poor and elderly by speculating on life essential needs, by engaging in our profiting from predatory lending practices ect. In other words if you worked for a living I could care less about what you have
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