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Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignored?

Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Here's my take in a nutshell - ALL of the US Constitution matters, equally.

<snipped for brevity>
Excellent post and topic.

Anyway, this was my first thought when I read the title. To not think of them equally pretty much defeats the entire purpose of the Constitution.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

I think it's safe to say that the Third has been moot or irrelevant almost since the beginning. I doubt it has ever been cited by any court decision.

But it does provide insight regarding the popular sentiment against a standing army.
I think it provides insight into the times as they were then.

Anyway, I think it has been since the early 1800s that the 3rd has been addressed in the SC, though about a year ago someone tried using it as an end run for something. Unfortunately, I forget what and am too tired right now to go look, but I think I had a short thread about it.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Teetering with the constitution is a slippery slope. I think unless the nation is unanimous in what they want to change, it shouldn't be done.

For instance. The hippies love the first amendment. Those guys love a good protest or chance to spit on a veteran.

The countryboys love them some 2nd amendment. What's more fun than shooting beer cans all day long?

In a nutshell, just leave it alone.

The Hippies love the First Amendment except when you're saying something they don't want to hear, are addressing freedom of religion or even freedom of the press when it isn't their press.

In my opinion, the founding fathers were brilliant and gave us a Constitution design to protect the minority from the majority and to protect all of us from the government.

Now, if we'd just consider following the Constitution.....
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

The Hippies love the First Amendment except when you're saying something they don't want to hear, are addressing freedom of religion or even freedom of the press when it isn't their press.
Conservatives love the First Amendment except when you're saying something they don't want to hear, such as anything relating to sex, or stopping the government from imposing a state religion on citizens, or even freedom of the press when it isn't their press.

See how that works? :mrgreen:


In my opinion, the founding fathers were brilliant and gave us a Constitution design to protect the minority from the majority and to protect all of us from the government.
The Framers were reasonably smart. They also were, for the most part, a bunch of wealthy, elite, slave-owning male aristocrats who did not agree on critical policies (like slavery, they punted on that), and could not possibly have predicted how their policies would play out 250+ years later in a society with 300 million plus citizens, autos, the Internet, cell phones, GPS, the NSA and so on.


Now, if we'd just consider following the Constitution.....
:roll:

Whenever anyone says this, what they REALLY mean is: "If only everyone did what I wanted them to do, everything would be great."

The reality is that we do in fact follow the Constitution, it just doesn't offer a good structure anymore. As noted already: It's stingy in the list of rights it protects. It has created a vetocracy, which makes it difficult to get anything done. Embedding distrust of government and a belief in its inefficiency is often what causes ineffective governance. Its structure forces a reliance on an unelected judiciary to make political decisions (a rarity in democratic societies), yet the people who decry this the loudest are also the most resistant to modifying the structure of government in order to reduce the importance of judicial review. (And no, whining about "judicial activism" when your side loses a ruling isn't enough.)

And blind worship of the Constitution, along with its own structure, makes it difficult -- if not impossible -- to modify our government.

The problem isn't that "we aren't following the Constitution." It's that the Constitution is a bad fit for the modern world.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Conservatives love the First Amendment except when you're saying something they don't want to hear, such as anything relating to sex, or stopping the government from imposing a state religion on citizens, or even freedom of the press when it isn't their press.

See how that works? :mrgreen:



The Framers were reasonably smart. They also were, for the most part, a bunch of wealthy, elite, slave-owning male aristocrats who did not agree on critical policies (like slavery, they punted on that), and could not possibly have predicted how their policies would play out 250+ years later in a society with 300 million plus citizens, autos, the Internet, cell phones, GPS, the NSA and so on.



:roll:

Whenever anyone says this, what they REALLY mean is: "If only everyone did what I wanted them to do, everything would be great."

The reality is that we do in fact follow the Constitution, it just doesn't offer a good structure anymore. As noted already: It's stingy in the list of rights it protects. It has created a vetocracy, which makes it difficult to get anything done. Embedding distrust of government and a belief in its inefficiency is often what causes ineffective governance. Its structure forces a reliance on an unelected judiciary to make political decisions (a rarity in democratic societies), yet the people who decry this the loudest are also the most resistant to modifying the structure of government in order to reduce the importance of judicial review. (And no, whining about "judicial activism" when your side loses a ruling isn't enough.)

And blind worship of the Constitution, along with its own structure, makes it difficult -- if not impossible -- to modify our government.

The problem isn't that "we aren't following the Constitution." It's that the Constitution is a bad fit for the modern world.

I do see how that works. And now the Democrats, weatlhy elites, want to do away with the Constitution and rule by fiat. See how that works.

What works is the Constitution. We should try it. We should do shocking things such as amending the Consitution is we wish but not pretending it deals with abortion and not simply ignoring it because the Democrat elites have the power.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

The Hippies love the First Amendment except when you're saying something they don't want to hear, are addressing freedom of religion or even freedom of the press when it isn't their press.

In my opinion, the founding fathers were brilliant and gave us a Constitution design to protect the minority from the majority and to protect all of us from the government.

Now, if we'd just consider following the Constitution.....

Ok now you have gone too far, that would be living up to the actual ideals setup by the Founders, and according to some they were nothing but a bunch of slave holders living in the dark ages.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Ok now you have gone too far, that would be living up to the actual ideals setup by the Founders, and according to some they were nothing but a bunch of slave holders living in the dark ages.

And according to some, mature men should be allowed to have sex with young boys. They're called pedophiles. There are those, not the "some" you're talking about, who can understand that Roman Polanski is both a brilliant movie director and a pedophile. There are some, not the "some" you're talking about, who can understand the U.S. Grant was a slave owner and a general who was instrumental in winning the War Between the States. No, for those "some", Barack Obama will never be anything but a dope-smoking wastrel because they can't conceive of anyone being a dope smoking wastrel and anything else.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

I do see how that works. And now the Democrats, weatlhy elites, want to do away with the Constitution and rule by fiat. See how that works.
:roll:

In case you missed it, the Republican party is also front-loaded with wealthy elites. For decades, their policies have benefitted the wealthy, by cutting their taxes; slashing regulations on their businesses, while passing regulations or tariffs to put their thumbs on the scale for their donors; shielding corporations from liability; putting wealthy cronies in charge of government agencies, and hastening regulatory capture. I could be here all day listing powerful and wealthy donors, ranging from Koch to Adelson to Thiele to....

Bush 43 spent lots of time ignoring and subverting the US Constitution, mostly by ignoring due process (warrantless wiretaps, military tribunals, Guantanamo etc) and the explicit prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. John Yoo, formerly of the Office of Legal Council, basically said that could legally violate the entire Bill of Rights in the pursuit of counterterrorism efforts. Bush personally held the ability to indefinitely detain a suspect, with no due process and no protections against torture.

Bush 43 also slashed taxes for the wealthy; failed to enact even basic oversight of derivatives or mortgages or banks; deliberately prevented Medicare from haggling with Big Pharma over Medicare Part D prices.... The list goes on.

If you want to see rule by fiat, and to the benefit of the wealthy? Just look at Bush 43.


My views are certainly not held by the majority of Democrats. Contrary to -- if not invisible to -- the right is that Democrats routinely cite and point to the Constitution to support their policies. Ironically, my position is influenced by a former darling of the conservatives and a big proponent of liberal democracy, Francis Fukuyama:
The Decay of American Political Institutions - The American Interest

More importantly, you're setting up a false choice. It is not "we follow the US structure exactly, or are ruled by dictators!" That is exactly the kind of absurdity fostered by ignorant devotion to one specific system. There are alternatives, currently in use right now, that result in governments that are more effective, equally (or more) accountable, protect more rights, are able to move faster, are less prone to vetocratic blockades, and are not totalitarian in nature. England, Canada, Germany, Ireland, France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Japan come to mind.


What works is the Constitution. We should try it. We should do shocking things such as amending the Consitution is we wish but not pretending it deals with abortion and not simply ignoring it because the Democrat elites have the power.
Again: Your own comments make it very clear that you are conflating your own policy preferences with "what is Constitutional."

We DO largely follow the Constitution. We repeatedly see conflict between the Legislative, Judiciary and Executive branches, which compete against one another for power, and routinely interfere with each other's influence, exactly as the Framers planned. We see how the current incarnation of federalism causes repeated clashes, as the framers expected. We see the Legislature routinely delegates authority to the Executive branch -- something they did not plan, but did not block, and is wholly Constitutional. We see the Judiciary engaged in extensive judicial review and defending the rights of the minority, as the Framers expected. The concept of an executive order is Constitutional, because in almost every case it is merely the Executive exercising powers delegated by the legislature.

We also see how the system has repeatedly failed to achieve its preferred goals. It hasn't stopped factionalism, it doesn't guarantee freedom, it hasn't stopped many of the worst excesses of democratic or elite rule. You're basically insisting that bloodletting is the only possible treatment for blood loss.

The Constitution worked reasonably well for many decades, but even its own authors did not expect it to be unchanged for all eternity. They did not want us enslaved to the political will of a bunch of politicians who have been dead for centuries. Nor could they possibly have predicted every outcome of every political decision. We need to govern ourselves, according to the structures and policies that we choose, and the values we hold today.

The end result is an inefficient and decaying government, frozen in amber not based on the merits of the structure but out of an ignorant devotion to nostalgia. And no one should want that. Even people who want less government should want it to be efficient and healthy, not exhaling dust.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

:roll:

In case you missed it, the Republican party is also front-loaded with wealthy elites. For decades, their policies have benefitted the wealthy, by cutting their taxes; slashing regulations on their businesses, while passing regulations or tariffs to put their thumbs on the scale for their donors; shielding corporations from liability; putting wealthy cronies in charge of government agencies, and hastening regulatory capture. I could be here all day listing powerful and wealthy donors, ranging from Koch to Adelson to Thiele to....

Bush 43 spent lots of time ignoring and subverting the US Constitution, mostly by ignoring due process (warrantless wiretaps, military tribunals, Guantanamo etc) and the explicit prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. John Yoo, formerly of the Office of Legal Council, basically said that could legally violate the entire Bill of Rights in the pursuit of counterterrorism efforts. Bush personally held the ability to indefinitely detain a suspect, with no due process and no protections against torture.

Bush 43 also slashed taxes for the wealthy; failed to enact even basic oversight of derivatives or mortgages or banks; deliberately prevented Medicare from haggling with Big Pharma over Medicare Part D prices.... The list goes on.

If you want to see rule by fiat, and to the benefit of the wealthy? Just look at Bush 43.


My views are certainly not held by the majority of Democrats. Contrary to -- if not invisible to -- the right is that Democrats routinely cite and point to the Constitution to support their policies. Ironically, my position is influenced by a former darling of the conservatives and a big proponent of liberal democracy, Francis Fukuyama:
The Decay of American Political Institutions - The American Interest

More importantly, you're setting up a false choice. It is not "we follow the US structure exactly, or are ruled by dictators!" That is exactly the kind of absurdity fostered by ignorant devotion to one specific system. There are alternatives, currently in use right now, that result in governments that are more effective, equally (or more) accountable, protect more rights, are able to move faster, are less prone to vetocratic blockades, and are not totalitarian in nature. England, Canada, Germany, Ireland, France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Japan come to mind.

the same can be said of the democrats, both parties are corrupt, and have their own faction/special interest.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Conservatives love the First Amendment except when you're saying something they don't want to hear, such as anything relating to sex, or stopping the government from imposing a state religion on citizens, or even freedom of the press when it isn't their press.

See how that works? :mrgreen:



The Framers were reasonably smart. They also were, for the most part, a bunch of wealthy, elite, slave-owning male aristocrats who did not agree on critical policies (like slavery, they punted on that), and could not possibly have predicted how their policies would play out 250+ years later in a society with 300 million plus citizens, autos, the Internet, cell phones, GPS, the NSA and so on.



:roll:

Whenever anyone says this, what they REALLY mean is: "If only everyone did what I wanted them to do, everything would be great."

The reality is that we do in fact follow the Constitution, it just doesn't offer a good structure anymore. As noted already: It's stingy in the list of rights it protects. It has created a vetocracy, which makes it difficult to get anything done. Embedding distrust of government and a belief in its inefficiency is often what causes ineffective governance. Its structure forces a reliance on an unelected judiciary to make political decisions (a rarity in democratic societies), yet the people who decry this the loudest are also the most resistant to modifying the structure of government in order to reduce the importance of judicial review. (And no, whining about "judicial activism" when your side loses a ruling isn't enough.)

And blind worship of the Constitution, along with its own structure, makes it difficult -- if not impossible -- to modify our government.

The problem isn't that "we aren't following the Constitution." It's that the Constitution is a bad fit for the modern world.

I agree mostly with what you say, but in view of the USA Patriot Act and the NDAA suspension of Habeas, I would say you're really kidding yourself to claim that the government is governing in accordance with constitutional principles, that 'we are following the Constitution.'
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

the same can be said of the democrats, both parties are corrupt, and have their own faction/special interest.

Not really. Republicans want jobs with everyone working. Democrats want more people on welfare, with their kids attending non-performing schools, with no jobs available, and no job skills that the market needs. Democrats intend to keep the ghettos intact for "their" black people.

Republicans are willing to try something new whether it's charters schools and vouchers or jobs for working class people. Democrats are willing to raise taxes and spend more money. That's their only solution.

And I'm a fiscal conservative. I think the First Amendment, specifically the free speech provision is essential for our country. Liberal fight it tooth and nail. They have passed laws against free speech, which is what the First Amendment specifically forbids. Hate crimes are a free speech crime. Forbidden words are a free speech issue. Forbidding prayers or mentioning gods is a free speech issue. It's been Sen. Reid, Sen. Clinton, and Donald Trump who preach for more restrictions on free speech. All are liberal Democrats. All are proud liars.
 
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Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

to infringe on the 1st Amendment Right of Muslims (as Trump has called for)

I don't know what you're referring to. Muslim aliens who have not yet entered U.S. territory do not enjoy the protections of the First Amendment, or of any other part of the Constitution.





Which rights matter to you, and which ones do not? Are there any rights that are more important than others?

Please don't go into the "Your rights end where mine begin" because we all know that although there are limitations such as public accommodations. If you want to have a conversation about public accommodations and how that may impose on your religious beliefs and rights, feel free to open a new thread about that, but this isn't the thread for that discussion.

Here's my take in a nutshell - ALL of the US Constitution matters, equally. The separation of powers. The limitations placed on the governments power, and the recognition of the inalienable rights of the people and the powers reserved to the states, all are important.

In my opinion, it matters not for what purpose an erosion of a Constitutional right or protection is undertaken, the potential damage is unacceptable and must be stopped.

I have read post after post of why one group or another has to relinquish its rights for the greater good. Please, tell why I should agree with that. Pick your right that you believe must be curtailed for the greater good and why it's less important than the other rights. Not the stuff you can talk about in the Gun Control forum (like you disagree with the language interpretation), or the Religion forum (like one religion is a religion of peace and one isn't therefore the one that isn't shouldn't be allowed in the country), but why the right itself is less important than the other rights.

Please proceed under the assumption that the rights laid out in the US Constitution apply to all people within the boundaries of the United States and its possessions, not just US Citizens (pretty much because that's the truth).

Zyphlin, If I've unintentionally broken a rule by doing this, please delete or move this thread as you see fit.[/QUOTE]
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Not really. Republicans want jobs with everyone working. Democrats want more people on welfare, with their kids attending non-performing schools, with no jobs available, and no job skills that the market needs.
Will you stop with the utter nonsense?

Everyone wants good schools, good jobs, skilled workers and working markets. The difference between the parties in these respects is the method, not the goals.


Democrats intend to keep the ghettos intact for "their" black people.
How do you not understand that is precisely the attitude that has alienated blacks for generations?


Republicans are willing to try something new whether it's charters schools and vouchers or jobs for working class people. Democrats are willing to raise taxes and spend more money. That's their only solution.
:roll:

Republicans have spent years doing the same thing -- cutting taxes when the economy is good, cutting taxes when the economy is bad, and cutting education funding. Oh, and saying they'd cut spending, then turning around and increasing it.

Since you missed it, many of the attempts to tie safety nets to jobs, and to give the working poor tax credits (EITC), are actually bipartisan. It was Clinton who pushed for and signed into law "workfare" requirements; it was Reagan who started the EITC, and both Republicans and Democrats have

Both Republicans and Democrats have supported charter schools. Clinton even spoke in favor of charters in June.

And vouchers are not a "new idea," they are an old way to weaken the public schools and try to do an end-run around the *cough* Constitutional prohibition on the establishment of a religion.


And I'm a fiscal conservative. I think the First Amendment, specifically the free speech provision is essential for our country. Liberal fight it tooth and nail.
Yes, conservatives love the ACLU. lol


They have passed laws against free speech, which is what the First Amendment specifically forbids. Hate crimes are a free speech crime.
lol... 1992 called and wants its bad arguments back

ANY criminal judgment involves attempts to determine the intent of the perpetrator; when we view the intent as more heinous, we increase the punishment. Hate crimes have nothing to do with speech, and no one is punished because of statements they made while *cough* committing a violent felony. Rather, it determines that if you commit a violent crime out of racial animus, then we adjust the punishments for those crimes appropriately.


Forbidden words are a free speech issue.
Who has passed laws forbidding words?


Forbidding prayers or mentioning gods is a free speech issue.
1992 is still on the phone for you

There is only one reason to "forbid prayers," and that is when doing so would establish a religion -- a violation of the 1st Amendment. Ever heard of it? ;)

I love it when people who claim to defend the Constitution don't seem to understand what it actually says....
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Will you stop with the utter nonsense?

Everyone wants good schools, good jobs, skilled workers and working markets. The difference between the parties in these respects is the method, not the goals.



How do you not understand that is precisely the attitude that has alienated blacks for generations?



:roll:

Republicans have spent years doing the same thing -- cutting taxes when the economy is good, cutting taxes when the economy is bad, and cutting education funding. Oh, and saying they'd cut spending, then turning around and increasing it.

Since you missed it, many of the attempts to tie safety nets to jobs, and to give the working poor tax credits (EITC), are actually bipartisan. It was Clinton who pushed for and signed into law "workfare" requirements; it was Reagan who started the EITC, and both Republicans and Democrats have

Both Republicans and Democrats have supported charter schools. Clinton even spoke in favor of charters in June.

And vouchers are not a "new idea," they are an old way to weaken the public schools and try to do an end-run around the *cough* Constitutional prohibition on the establishment of a religion.



Yes, conservatives love the ACLU. lol



lol... 1992 called and wants its bad arguments back

ANY criminal judgment involves attempts to determine the intent of the perpetrator; when we view the intent as more heinous, we increase the punishment. Hate crimes have nothing to do with speech, and no one is punished because of statements they made while *cough* committing a violent felony. Rather, it determines that if you commit a violent crime out of racial animus, then we adjust the punishments for those crimes appropriately.



Who has passed laws forbidding words?



1992 is still on the phone for you

There is only one reason to "forbid prayers," and that is when doing so would establish a religion -- a violation of the 1st Amendment. Ever heard of it? ;)

I love it when people who claim to defend the Constitution don't seem to understand what it actually says....

Snarky and stupid. Isn't it wonderful.
"Everyone wants good schools, good jobs, skilled workers and working markets. The difference between the parties in these respects is the method, not the goals."
Don't be ridiculous. Democrats want strong teachers unions. Education, job skills, not necessary. And of course Democrats wants jobs in the cities and it's not their fault they drive the jobs out. Oh, wait. Yes, it is.

"How do you not understand that is precisely the attitude that has alienated blacks for generations?"
I realize that makes sense to the racists. Do you understand that alienating Americans has nothing to do with race?

"Republicans have spent years doing the same thing -- cutting taxes when the economy is good, cutting taxes when the economy is bad, and cutting education funding. Oh, and saying they'd cut spending, then turning around and increasing it."

Cutting funding to education? That's hilarious. School budgets aren't cut. Liberals call getting less of an increase than they want a cut. That's called lying. School pensions are unsustainable and politicians are "kicking the can down the road." But, it's going to land on our tables. And, cutting taxes and increasing revenues is a concept liberals can't understand. Oh, an a hammock is not a safety net.

"Who has passed laws forbidding words?"
I know this is a tough one for liberals who aren't familiar with the Constitution they hate but who passes laws. I know right now the king can do it but under the constitution Congress and subsidiary legislative bodies pass laws. Hate laws based on spoken words, which most are, are laws making certain words illegal. If I am in a fight and the other fellow calls me a fat ****, that's not illegal. If he calls me a ugly prick, that's not illegal. If he calls me a pitiful pansy, or a stupid gimp, or a retard old fart then it's a hate crime just on what was said.

And, how in the hell, does a high school valedictorian making a speech and thanking a god for success violate the establishment of religion clause?

I realize the left doesn't have much to work with but you could try harder. Oh, and I was a member of the ACLU but I'll admit I joined so I could write letters as a member asking them to return to defending the Constitution and to quit being shills for the left. The last moment I was proud of them was Skokie, Illinois. They held their noses and did something they hated to do because the Constitution required it.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Snarky and stupid. Isn't it wonderful.
You're not snarky.


Democrats want strong teachers unions. Education, job skills, not necessary. And of course Democrats wants jobs in the cities and it's not their fault they drive the jobs out. Oh, wait. Yes, it is.
:roll:

1) Learn to quote kthx

2) In the same way that Democrats support unions, Republicans want to break unions.

3) Yes, everyone wants a skilled workforce. Even some Republicans, like Paul Ryan, are willing now to pony up for job training.

4) The idea that "Democrats kill jobs" is beyond absurd. Republicans and Democrats alike have promoted free trade, higher productivity, automation, and tax breaks on capital expenditures for years (all things that eliminate crappy manufacturing jobs). Both have promoted "Workfare." Both have frequently added work requirements to safety nets.

5) Manufacturing has been declining as a part of the workforce since the 1950s. I hate to break this to you, but Democrats have not had exclusive control over the government and economy for the past 60 years.

Jobs in rural areas are declining because there isn't much work there. Rural areas don't have much to draw employers. They don't have large workforces, the workers aren't often highly educated, the population is older, there is less infrastructure. Why would a big employer want to move to an area with minimal cell reception, poor sewer systems, declining population, no money to fix roads, and that isn't near consumers?


"How do you not understand that is precisely the attitude that has alienated blacks for generations?"
I realize that makes sense to the racists. Do you understand that alienating Americans has nothing to do with race?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that treating blacks as an actual constituency, knowing the history of their transition of support away from Republicans to Democrats, and seeing that you openly patronize black voters, doesn't actually make me a racist.


Cutting funding to education? That's hilarious. School budgets aren't cut.
Why the GOP's Education Funding Bill Gets an F | US News Opinion
Gov. Sam Brownback cuts higher education as Kansas tax receipts fall $53 million short | The Kansas City Star
Education Cuts Could Swing the 2012 Election | The Fiscal Times
Charlie Crist says Rick Scott cut K-12 by $1.3 billion in his first year and higher ed by $300 million in his second | PolitiFact Florida
Oklahoma continues to lead U.S. for deepest cuts to education
etc


And, cutting taxes and increasing revenues is a concept liberals can't understand.
That's because it is complete and utter nonsense. There is not the slightest bit of evidence that cutting taxes will spark enough growth to offset the lost revenues -- as Kansas and Louisiana are showing right now.


"Who has passed laws forbidding words?"
I know this is a tough one for liberals who aren't familiar with the Constitution they hate but who passes laws.....
I didn't ask for another screed. I asked for concrete examples. Which you did not provide.


And, how in the hell, does a high school valedictorian making a speech and thanking a god for success violate the establishment of religion clause?
The principal at the school may not sponsor or promote a religious exercise. So if the valedictory speech has to be shown to the principal before it is delivered and the principal knows that it includes a prayer, the school is going to be held responsible for the content of the speech, including the prayer. The courts that have engaged this question so far have said, no, that’s not good. It becomes the school’s speech. The school owns that speech – is responsible for that speech – when it supervises and signs off.... Even when it’s a student, if it’s somehow part of the enterprise of the commencement that everyone in the audience has to involve themselves in the prayer, this perhaps crosses the line.
http://www.pewforum.org/2007/05/09/school-graduations-religion-and-the-courts/

I'm curious, if the valedictorian was praising Allah instead of Jesus, would you still defend his rights?


I realize the left doesn't have much to work with but you could try harder. Oh, and I was a member of the ACLU but I'll admit I joined so I could write letters as a member asking them to return to defending the Constitution and to quit being shills for the left.
So, that would be a "no, conservatives generally don't like the ACLU."

They've pursued plenty of cases that the left don't like, by the way.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Not really. Republicans want jobs with everyone working. Democrats want more people on welfare, with their kids attending non-performing schools, with no jobs available, and no job skills that the market needs. Democrats intend to keep the ghettos intact for "their" black people.

Republicans are willing to try something new whether it's charters schools and vouchers or jobs for working class people. Democrats are willing to raise taxes and spend more money. That's their only solution.

And I'm a fiscal conservative. I think the First Amendment, specifically the free speech provision is essential for our country. Liberal fight it tooth and nail. They have passed laws against free speech, which is what the First Amendment specifically forbids. Hate crimes are a free speech crime. Forbidden words are a free speech issue. Forbidding prayers or mentioning gods is a free speech issue. It's been Sen. Reid, Sen. Clinton, and Donald Trump who preach for more restrictions on free speech. All are liberal Democrats. All are proud liars.

republicans like democrats have their factions, who they play to and do their bidding.

ask yourself a question when Bush was elected in 2000 -2006 we had for the first time since the 1950's a republican congress and president, why did the republicans not roll back many liberal things which had been created since the 1960's?

with that power they had, they could have done so many things they claimed they would do if they ever got such power.

why didn't they get rid of the dept of education?..but create "no child left behind"

why did they expand government and make it bigger?..patriot act.


one thing people need to stop doing is quite playing the republican/democract game, and start thinking clearly without party influence.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

republicans like democrats have their factions, who they play to and do their bidding.

ask yourself a question when Bush was elected in 2000 -2006 we had for the first time since the 1950's a republican congress and president, why did the republicans not roll back many liberal things which had been created since the 1960's?

with that power they had, they could have done so many things they claimed they would do if they ever got such power.

why didn't they get rid of the dept of education?..but create "no child left behind"

why did they expand government and make it bigger?..patriot act.


one thing people need to stop doing is quite playing the republican/democract game, and start thinking clearly without party influence.

Because Republicans have been liberals for years. President Nixon initiated Affimative Action, he wanted nationalized health care and couldn't get it but he did get SSI, a factory for fraud. He also founded the liberal boondoggle of the EPA.

Why didn't President Clinton when he was first prsident and had a Democrat congress implement nationalized healthcare? Because, congress was Democrat but at the time Democrat wasn't synonymous with socialist.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Because Republicans have been liberals for years. President Nixon initiated Affimative Action, he wanted nationalized health care and couldn't get it but he did get SSI, a factory for fraud. He also founded the liberal boondoggle of the EPA.

Why didn't President Clinton when he was first prsident and had a Democrat congress implement nationalized healthcare? Because, congress was Democrat but at the time Democrat wasn't synonymous with socialist.

in 92-93 the Clinton adminstartion tried too get healthcare, it failed because the nation did not want it, dont you remember the healthcare bus, which was going around the u.s. trying to sell the idea?

after that the congress became republican for the first time in about 40 years.

i am pointing out both parties suck, and are about power and money and not about what is good for the people- the states- and the union.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

in 92-93 the Clinton adminstartion tried too get healthcare, it failed because the nation did not want it, dont you remember the healthcare bus, which was going around the u.s. trying to sell the idea?

after that the congress became republican for the first time in about 40 years.

i am pointing out both parties suck, and are about power and money and not about what is good for the people- the states- and the union.

Do you remember Hillary's healthcare plan? No, because you never heard what it was. When the Democrats gave us Obamacare the people didn't want it but since when to the Democrats care about that. it's what they can get away with. All hail, Dr. Gruber, and his saluted to stupid Americans.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Do you remember Hillary's healthcare plan? No, because you never heard what it was. When the Democrats gave us Obamacare the people didn't want it but since when to the Democrats care about that. it's what they can get away with. All hail, Dr. Gruber, and his saluted to stupid Americans.

was is my point?..which you can reject if you want too, that each of the parties is corrupt and about power and money, neither one follows the constitution at all.

until Americans stop with the republican /democrat blame game, and return to constitutional government the nation will continue to slide downward.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Ok now you have gone too far, that would be living up to the actual ideals setup by the Founders, and according to some they were nothing but a bunch of slave holders living in the dark ages.

Slavery isnt in the Constitution.


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Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Slavery isnt in the Constitution.


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Correct, in fact it is distinctly antislavery.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

Correct, in fact it is distinctly antislavery.

The Constitution ensures that slavery would be abolished.

The problem then is the same problem today, by the same party. Trying to define who is a person or not.


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Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

The Constitution ensures that slavery would be abolished.

The problem then is the same problem today, by the same party. Trying to define who is a person or not.


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I do not see either Party saying anyone is not a person.
 
Re: Which parts of the US Constitution are less important than others or can be ignor

I do not see either Party saying anyone is not a person.

Then you are ignorant of the legal argument to deny the unborn the right to life.


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