Which Hell Is Worse?

[MickeyW]

Anyone who has been paying attention to Trump's words, behavior, actions and 69 year history know for a fact that Trump will be horrible.

They said Reagan would be horrible and he turned out to be the best. Now, I'm not saying Trump is anything close to Reagan....but he could surprise you.

Trump will most definitley be horrible. Don't kid yourself.

Well, I know Hillary is already horrible, has always been horrible and will continue to be horrible.....so I'm willing to take a chance on Trump.

I'm not voting for her either. I don't want to vote for someone who will end up hurting the Republic.

We have two choices. A Hillary win will guarantee a hurt on the Republic...a Trump win may...but is actually speculation.
His history does not necessarily mean he will do poorly as POTUS.
I've known many judges, lawyers, cops and doctors who were criminals and real hail raisers when young and did 180s in their lives.

Donald Trump and Sen. Clinton are two peas in the same Democrat pod. They both lie as naturally as they breathe and Donald is the better liar. Donald has been the better con man if you consider making money the scorecard but then he did get a jump start by being born a multimillionaire and never having to work for anyone but daddy. But, they're running for President and Sen. Clinton has had far more experience selling government secrets and favors and that has made her and her husband quite rich. And, of course, Mr. Trump and Sen. Clinton are both, as Democrats, liberals, and wealthy elites above the law.

Going by what you say, should we stay home, ignore them on election day....and hope for the best, knowing the worst will happen?

 

[Ikari]

We have two choices. A Hillary win will guarantee a hurt on the Republic...a Trump win may...but is actually speculation.
His history does not necessarily mean he will do poorly as POTUS.
I've known many judges, lawyers, cops and doctors who were criminals and real hail raisers when young and did 180s in their lives.

We have more than two choices, and I'm not voting for a candidate who will damage the Republic. Hillary and Trump will damage the Republic, Trump probably a bit more than Hillary. I'm not going to vote for some unknown for President on a lark. Trump has no experience and does not have the temperament for the job. he would be an unmitigated disaster. Hillary would likely be some mitigated disaster. Why the hell would I vote for either of them? I don't want a disaster to occupy the WH.

Now that may be what we're going to get regardless, but it doesn't mean I have to like it or support it. I do not. I will vote for the candidate I feel will do best at the job, who won't be the disaster Hillary or Trump will be. End of story.

 

[roughdraft274]

Good grief, how far to the left does one need to be to consider Hillary a "centrist"? :doh

I bet you think Obama is a moderate, amirite?

Could you describe the policies that would be espoused by a centrist democrat? Or an example of someone you would call a centrist democrat?

 

[MickeyW]

We have more than two choices, and I'm not voting for a candidate who will damage the Republic. Hillary and Trump will damage the Republic, Trump probably a bit more than Hillary. I'm not going to vote for some unknown for President on a lark. Trump has no experience and does not have the temperament for the job. he would be an unmitigated disaster. Hillary would likely be some mitigated disaster. Why the hell would I vote for either of them? I don't want a disaster to occupy the WH.

Now that may be what we're going to get regardless, but it doesn't mean I have to like it or support it. I do not. I will vote for the candidate I feel will do best at the job, who won't be the disaster Hillary or Trump will be. End of story.

Your vote may seem like a noble gesture to you....but it's a meaningless, wasted vote!

We are going to have a Trump or Clinton as president by next month....your attitude is unrealistic!

When you see something real ugly, like a tarantula on your ceiling....your choice is to cover your eyes.

 

[Ikari]

Your vote may seem like a noble gesture to you....but it's a meaningless, wasted vote!

I don't care what you think, the system doesn't work by voting a "lesser" of two evils time and time again. I will not support those who will hurt the Republic. Both Hillary and Trump are toxic to the Republic. If you don't care about the whittling down of freedom, go ahead and vote for one of them, doesn't really matter which one. But I do care, I am sick of it, and the status quo cannot be changed by supporting the status quo.

We are going to have a Trump or Clinton as president by next month....your attitude is unrealistic!

When you see something real ugly, like a tarantula on your ceiling....your choice is to cover your eyes.

It's going to be Clinton, actually. Come November, Trump will have no chance of actually winning. I'm not covering my eyes. When I see something real ugly, like two tarantulas on my ceiling, my choice is the double fudge icecream cone next to them all. You partisans are the one covering your eyes. Pretending that somehow we're going to be better off with one disaster over a different disaster when the reality is both are damaging.

I will not betray this Republic and set upon it Presidents that are dedicated to its destruction. Both Hillary and Trump will hurt the Republic.

 

[tres borrachos]

They said Reagan would be horrible and he turned out to be the best. Now, I'm not saying Trump is anything close to Reagan....but he could surprise you.

The "they" who said Reagan would be horrible are the same "they" who said Romney would be horrible. They were wrong about Reagan and Romney. The people who say Trump will be horrible include lots and lots of smart people who knew Reagan would be great. That's because we aren't being conned by a con man. Like you are.

 

[MickeyW]

I don't care what you think, the system doesn't work by voting a "lesser" of two evils time and time again. I will not support those who will hurt the Republic. Both Hillary and Trump are toxic to the Republic. If you don't care about the whittling down of freedom, go ahead and vote for one of them, doesn't really matter which one. But I do care, I am sick of it, and the status quo cannot be changed by supporting the status quo.



It's going to be Clinton, actually. Come November, Trump will have no chance of actually winning. I'm not covering my eyes. When I see something real ugly, like two tarantulas on my ceiling, my choice is the double fudge icecream cone next to them all. You partisans are the one covering your eyes. Pretending that somehow we're going to be better off with one disaster over a different disaster when the reality is both are damaging.

I will not betray this Republic and set upon it Presidents that are dedicated to its destruction. Both Hillary and Trump will hurt the Republic.

I don't want to betray this Republic either. But truth be told, if neither you or I voted at all, it would not change anything. I haven't missed a vote in over 40 years and I will never vote for a Clinton....and there is no one else running............ who matters.

 

[MickeyW]

The "they" who said Reagan would be horrible are the same "they" who said Romney would be horrible. They were wrong about Reagan and Romney. The people who say Trump will be horrible include lots and lots of smart people who knew Reagan would be great. That's because we aren't being conned by a con man. Like you are.

I'm not being conned....I'm voting against Hillary....no matter who runs against her.
They guy with the best chance of beating her....gets my vote...

 

[Ikari]

I don't want to betray this Republic either. But truth be told, if neither you or I voted at all, it would not change anything. I haven't missed a vote in over 40 years and I will never vote for a Clinton....and there is no one else running............ who matters.

I won't "not vote", that's how the establishment wins. But I cannot, will not, support subpar candidates who do not echo my own political beliefs and who will do damage to the Republic. It means I cannot vote Clinton or Trump this election. But I must still vote, so I am left with Johnson who does echo many of my own political beliefs, who has proven himself capable as an Executive in government, and who will work for the bettterment of the Republic.

I know the odds, but the odds don't matter. I have to vote and I can only vote for the best candidate, and this time around it means I cannot support Hillary or Trump.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

I won't "not vote", that's how the establishment wins. But I cannot, will not, support subpar candidates who do not echo my own political beliefs and who will do damage to the Republic. It means I cannot vote Clinton or Trump this election. But I must still vote, so I am left with Johnson who does echo many of my own political beliefs, who has proven himself capable as an Executive in government, and who will work for the bettterment of the Republic.

I know the odds, but the odds don't matter. I have to vote and I can only vote for the best candidate, and this time around it means I cannot support Hillary or Trump.

Is Johnson really the best candidate?

Domestic policy is Johnson’s calling card, and the candidate is well known for his laissez-faire attitude toward regulating guns and pot. The Chicago Tribune singled out for praise Johnson’s sensible approach to the deficit and economic growth. "We wish the two main parties had not run away from today’s centrists,” the editorial’s authors wrote.

But far from “centrist,” the Libertarian candidate’s economic ideas are so radical they make Trump seem downright moderate. He would abolish federal income taxes, replace the current tax code with a more regressive national consumption tax, cut Medicare and Medicaid by 40 percent, push for a constitutional amendment to forbid the U.S. to run deficits even during downturns, ban federal bailouts of states, and seek to eliminate the Federal Reserve.

This is worse than fiscal irresponsibility. These ideas aren't politically or even morally responsible. Taken together, they could trigger a recession by taking hundreds of billions of dollars out of the economy, handcuff the federal government’s ability to stabilize the private sector, and throw millions of adults off health insurance, creating a needless economic crisis while whistling under the banner of economic freedom and choice. “Johnson is proposing an immediate fiscal tightening of 3 percent of gross domestic product,” the Washington Post’s Matthew O’Brien wrote. Without the Federal Reserve to buttress the downturn, O’Brien projected that the ensuing recession could push unemployment back above 7 percent.

No, Not Gary Johnson - The Atlantic

 

[Ikari]

Is Johnson really the best candidate?

Yes..

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Yes..

I disagree, his fiscal policies are catastrophically ill-conceived.

 

[Ikari]

I disagree, his fiscal policies are catastrophically ill-conceived.

I disagree. His tax policies need some refinement, but is overall fiscal policies are not catastrophic. Not in the sense of attempting to cut spending and getting the debt under control and removing financial obligations such as massive corporate subsidies and bank bailouts. Overall, I think his financial and economic policies are a step in the right direction to restore jobs, innovation, and manufacturing to America.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

I disagree. His tax policies need some refinement, but is overall fiscal policies are not catastrophic. Not in the sense of attempting to cut spending and getting the debt under control and removing financial obligations such as massive corporate subsidies and bank bailouts. Overall, I think his financial and economic policies are a step in the right direction to restore jobs, innovation, and manufacturing to America.

Austerity measures did not work in Europe and Johnsons economic policies are dangerous.

 

[MickeyW]

I won't "not vote", that's how the establishment wins. But I cannot, will not, support subpar candidates who do not echo my own political beliefs and who will do damage to the Republic. It means I cannot vote Clinton or Trump this election. But I must still vote, so I am left with Johnson who does echo many of my own political beliefs, who has proven himself capable as an Executive in government, and who will work for the bettterment of the Republic.

I know the odds, but the odds don't matter. I have to vote and I can only vote for the best candidate, and this time around it means I cannot support Hillary or Trump.

I got it....a wasted vote....

 

[tres borrachos]

I'm not being conned....I'm voting against Hillary....no matter who runs against her.
They guy with the best chance of beating her....gets my vote...

I'm not voting for Hillary either. She's just as bad as that con man named Donald Trump who has convinced the easily led and clueless that he's a Republican conservative who is qualified to be President.

 

[MickeyW]

I'm not voting for Hillary either. She's just as bad as that con man named Donald Trump who has convinced the easily led and clueless that he's a Republican conservative who is qualified to be President.

I know he's not the best choice, but to me, the only choice........ he still says things that get my vote....Hillary can never say anything to get my vote....that's why I don't watch debates....waste of my time.

 

[tres borrachos]

I know he's not the best choice, but to me, the only choice........ he still says things that get my vote....Hillary can never say anything to get my vote....that's why I don't watch debates....waste of my time.

Yes, I'll bet he says things that will get your vote.

 

[Ikari]

I got it....a wasted vote....

Whatever floats your boat. But I hope you've prepared yourself fully to be saying President Clinton again. Actually, I'll just call her Clinton II.

 

[Patrickt]

MickeyW: "They said Reagan would be horrible and he turned out to be the best. Now, I'm not saying Trump is anything close to Reagan....but he could surprise you."

What has Donald Trump done in his life that would lead you to believe he would suprise us as a president? He brags about bribing politicians, he brags about making money on bankruptcies, he ran casinos, as the son of a multimillionaire he managed to be unfit for military service while being an outstanding athlete.

He supports gun control, raising the federal minimum wage, increasing the use of eminent domain, restricting free speech, universal healthcare like Canada or Great Britain and you think he has surprises.

Sorry, MickeyW. I think Donald Trump and Sen. Clinton are a matched pair except one has been bribing politicians and the other has been accepting bribes. Two sides of the same corrupt, corroded, diseased coin.

 

[Mr Person]

Vote Trump because his ideas are too crazy for anyone else to go along with him?

Excuse me if I'm not sold. And yes, as for Hillary, she is a centrist. She had to flip-flop just to pretend to be more left, to dig into potential Sanders supporters. If you look fairly at her career - and I'm not talking about scandals, real or imagined - she is a bit left of center and is willing to compromise with the right. What's the problem with that? Is there an assumption in play that anything government does is a problem and it will be a problem if Hillary is elected because government might actually do things due to the ability to compromise?

Excuse me if I'm not sold on that either.



Now take the alternative: you're saying Hillary's ideas are really crazy. Well if Trump's are too crazy for anyone else to go along with, why aren't Hillary's?

Good grief, how far to the left does one need to be to consider Hillary a "centrist"? :doh

I bet you think Obama is a moderate, amirite?

I bet you think Obamacare is "socialist."




Anyway, I certainly won't rely on your opinion of me. I have noticed in my time here that plenty of conservatives, moderates, and liberals have agreed or disagreed with me, depending on what I've said. If I was extremely liberal, I suspect that would not be the case (and indeed, I've disagreed many times with those calling themselves "very liberal"). But enough. Arguing about my lean with you is rather pointless.

I think that I will instead worry about the issues.






Have a ....day

 

[Mr Person]

I'm not being conned....I'm voting against Hillary....no matter who runs against her.
They guy with the best chance of beating her....gets my vote...

Sure you are.


The reason you're being conned is that the reasons for which you vote against Hillary are all measurements that, when applied, find that Trump is worse on every single metric. Bigger liar, bigger loudmouth, bigger ***hole, bigger idiot.

But you knew that.

 

[Jack Hays]

Sure you are.


The reason you're being conned is that the reasons for which you vote against Hillary are all measurements that, when applied, find that Trump is worse on every single metric. Bigger liar, bigger loudmouth, bigger ***hole, bigger idiot.

But you knew that.

No. Both are unacceptable and Hillary is no better than Trump.

 

[Exquisitor]

I don't care what you think, the system doesn't work by voting a "lesser" of two evils time and time again. I will not support those who will hurt the Republic. Both Hillary and Trump are toxic to the Republic. If you don't care about the whittling down of freedom, go ahead and vote for one of them, doesn't really matter which one. But I do care, I am sick of it, and the status quo cannot be changed by supporting the status quo.



It's going to be Clinton, actually. Come November, Trump will have no chance of actually winning. I'm not covering my eyes. When I see something real ugly, like two tarantulas on my ceiling, my choice is the double fudge icecream cone next to them all. You partisans are the one covering your eyes. Pretending that somehow we're going to be better off with one disaster over a different disaster when the reality is both are damaging.

I will not betray this Republic and set upon it Presidents that are dedicated to its destruction. Both Hillary and Trump will hurt the Republic.

No. Both are unacceptable and Hillary is no better than Trump.

I like how you guys like comparing Mrs. Clinton with Donald Trump. There is no comparison Between Mrs. Clinton and Donald Trump. Donald Trump is Republican who cut taxes for rich which got us into this mess. Moreover you're rewarding a Republican. Sad truth, but this is the Hell which is.

 

[calamity]

Here's a nice summary of the situation as we face the choice of which Hell we'd rather have: The Hell of President Clinton or the Hell of President Trump.

It's a comment left by SaltyDonnie at instapundit.com. I wish I'd written it, but I'll have to settle for stealing it:



I suppose Trump's trade policy isn't really a worry because, hey, he's never going to get to enact it! Nor will he be doing any of the other crazy stuff he says he wants to do. Hillary, on the other hand...

IMO, voting in Trump would be far worse. We would elect a guy who not only refused to follow traditional norms like turning over his tax returns, but also electing the ultimate "safe place" *****, who blocks reporters he doesn't like, sues comedians who poke fun at him and refuses to do interviews with anyone who he believes will make him look bad. It would be like electing a left wing, millennial social justice warrior without the social skills or the strive to achieve justice.