Which developing country has the best political system?

[Troubadour]

The term "developing country" can mean anything from a third-world economy with high ambitions to a country that is on the verge of becoming first world, but isn't traditionally thought as such in the United States. Economies can be treacherous, but a solid political foundation can allow a country to grow and develop on a regular footing, weathering storms and making the most of opportunities. Which developing country do you feel has the best political foundation for its people to advance?

 

[pendulum_jaw]

Define "advance".

 

[Troubadour]

Define "advance".

I'll let people define it however they wish. Use common sense.

 

[pendulum_jaw]

Okay, so this is just rhetorical masturbation. Have fun.

 

[Arcana XV]

I really don't think that Singapore should be on that list.

 

[reefedjib]

The term "developing country" can mean anything from a third-world economy with high ambitions to a country that is on the verge of becoming first world, but isn't traditionally thought as such in the United States. Economies can be treacherous, but a solid political foundation can allow a country to grow and develop on a regular footing, weathering storms and making the most of opportunities. Which developing country do you feel has the best political foundation for its people to advance?

India




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[Troubadour]

Okay, so this is just rhetorical masturbation. Have fun.

Actually, the poll question is intended to foster intelligent conversation, which you've just helpfully excluded yourself from. Thanks.

I really don't think that Singapore should be on that list.

Neither do I, but I wanted to offer a broad range of options.

India

Democratic, but also chaotic and unwieldy.

 

[reefedjib]

Democratic, but also chaotic and unwieldy.

That's merely a healthy sign of democracy. Look at ours.

 

[Camlon]

First off Singapore is a developed country and is richer than the US, and should not be on the list.

Chile - Good country with a stable government and sound policies. Is the richest country in South America.
Indonesia - No, but it is not the worst country out there, but do have a lot of problems.
Malaysia - One of the better ones, but I don't like how they discriminate everyone that's not Malay.
Singapore - Not a developing country, but is doing very well
India - No, they should have done much more to get poor people out of poverty, and has a very limited economic freedom.
Brazil - Nice country for vacation, but certinally doesn't have the best political system. Too much crime and too little economic freedom. However, they are improving in both areas.
Turkey - Also one of the better ones especially compared to other muslim countries, but I don't believe they have any potential. Just a poorer and more extreme version of Greece.
Argentina - Never, they were a first world country and now is a third world country. How embarrasing! They are undermining their own potential by having huge restrictions on the market and they had huge troubles with their debts.
Mexico - Drug cartels, huge income inequality a lot of crime. I think that says enough

I have to go for Chile, since they are doing pretty well. They have kept crime down, they have good growth rates and is the richest country in South America, just joined OECD, but their income inequality is too high. But income inequality is too high in every single country in South America. Also Venezuela. Funny thing is, socialist Venezuala is filled with slums, while Chile has a lot less than other countries in South America.

 

[Troubadour]

That's merely a healthy sign of democracy.

It goes a little deeper than that. Don't get me wrong, I think India has a bright future - or at least bright relative to how most of its people currently live.

Look at ours.

Ours is a case study in incipient mass-psychosis, but that's a topic for another thread.

First off Singapore is a developed country and is richer than the US, and should not be on the list.

Point taken.

Chile[/B] - Good country with a stable government and sound policies. Is the richest country in South America.

Agreed.

Turkey - Also one of the better ones especially compared to other muslim countries, but I don't believe they have any potential. Just a poorer and more extreme version of Greece.

Sadly, I agree here too.

Argentina - Never, they were a first world country and now is a third world country. How embarrasing! They are undermining their own potential by having huge restrictions on the market and they had huge troubles with their debts.

I doubt they've become a third world country again simply due to debt. There is such a thing as social inertia.

They have kept crime down, they have good growth rates and is the richest country in South America, just joined OECD, but their income inequality is too high.

Good point, hadn't seen that part before.

But income inequality is too high in every single country in South America. Also Venezuela. Funny thing is, socialist Venezuala is filled with slums, while Chile has a lot less than other countries in South America.

They were filled with slums before they elected Chavez - it's probably why they did. Not that he's going to change that.

 

[Camlon]

I doubt they've become a third world country again simply due to debt. There is such a thing as social inertia.

Correct, the story is much more complicated than that. It all started with a right wing military government taking over Argentinas economy. They actually did cause growth, reduced their chronic trade deficit and reduced poverty, but it also increased civil unrest and in 1973 they had elections again. Then the socialist Juan Perón took back the power. Juan Perón wasn't too bad the last time, and he had some good policies, for instance building a lot og schools and hospitals. However, this time he was much worse. He started using wage hikes and price controls, and we know from experience that price controls do cause a lot of problems. The economy went from trade surpluses to trade deficits and the economy soon crashed, with huge currency devauations.

Then the military took back the economy and crashed it even more. Becaue the junta didn't listen to the economists and rather wanted to spend the budget on defense and didn't want to discourage investors to take advantage over Argentias instability, because they were investing themselves. And after that, people in Argentina will blame all of their problems on capitalism. Argentina has improved since then, but the market is heavily regulated, and they are loosing a lot of potential.

To just show what the standard of living was back in 1973, here is a list of countries with real GDP per capita. Only Switzerland and the US had more than 14K GDP.
# 10 Australia: $12,485.00
# 11 Belgium: $11,905.00
# 12 Austria: $11,308.00
# 13 Japan: $11,017.00
# 14 Finland: $10,768.00
# 15 Venezuela: $10,717.00
# 16 Italy: $10,409.00
# 17 Norway: $10,229.00
# 18 Spain: $8,739.00
# 19 Argentina: $7,970.00
# 20 Greece: $7,779.00
# 21 Portugal: $7,568.00
# 22 Ireland: $7,023.00

 

[Camlon]

And here is 1950. Venzuela was richer, but that was due to oil. Although, after what I see in videos from the 1950s, their infrastructure then was better than now. Their economy crashed as well.
Here is something to watch about how Venezuela looked like in 1956 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkgFDzexcXM

# 1 United States: $9,573.00
# 2 Switzerland: $8,939.00
# 3 New Zealand: $8,495.00
# 4 Venezuela: $7,424.00
# 5 Australia: $7,218.00
# 6 Canada: $7,047.00
# 7 Sweden: $6,738.00
# 8 Denmark: $6,683.00
# 9 Netherlands: $5,850.00
# 10 Belgium: $5,346.00
# 11 France: $5,221.00
# 12 Argentina: $4,987.00
# 13 Norway: $4,969.00
# 14 Germany: $4,281.00
# 15 Finland: $4,131.00
# 16 Chile: $3,827.00
# 17 Austria: $3,731.00
# 18 Ireland: $3,518.00
# 19 Italy: $3,425.00
# 20 Hungary: $2,480.00
# 21 Poland: $2,447.00
# 22 Spain: $2,397.00

 

[Le Marteau]

Eh, I'm surprised South Africa isn't on that list.

Of the developing nations, I'm sure South Africa is slated to be a player on the world stage, a great power, if you will, before the century is out.

 

[Camlon]

Eh, I'm surprised South Africa isn't on that list.

Of the developing nations, I'm sure South Africa is slated to be a player on the world stage, a great power, if you will, before the century is out.

Yeah right! Some problems with your theory.
1. South Africa is a medium sized country with a population of 50 million people. If France (which is developed country) can't be a world power, then South Africa certainly can't.
2. South Africa has a GDP per capita of 9000-10000 USD dollars. And a low economic growth rate compared to other developing countries. It's nominal GDP (not per capita) is behind Denmark.
3. South Africa is a declining society. It suffers from a huge brain drain, because they are not tackling crime. When their brightest citizens leave, then the country will decline. Also, AIDS is another problem that will be hard to solve. It's infrastructure is falling apart and it's pretty much living off old wealth. In 1973 Taiwan and South Africa had the same GDP per capita. Today Taiwan's GDP per capita is 3 times as high.

South Africa won't be a world power anytime soon. The new world powers are India and China.

 

[Le Marteau]

Yeah right! Some problems with your theory.
1. South Africa is a medium sized country with a population of 50 million people. If France (which is developed country) can't be a world power, then South Africa certainly can't.
2. South Africa has a GDP per capita of 9000-10000 USD dollars. And a low economic growth rate compared to other developing countries. It's nominal GDP (not per capita) is behind Denmark.
3. South Africa is a declining society. It suffers from a huge brain drain, because they are not tackling crime. When their brightest citizens leave, then the country will decline. Also, AIDS is another problem that will be hard to solve. It's infrastructure is falling apart and it's pretty much living off old wealth. In 1973 Taiwan and South Africa had the same GDP per capita. Today Taiwan's GDP per capita is 3 times as high.

South Africa won't be a world power anytime soon. The new world powers are India and China.

Firstly, France is a world power -- it's one of the great five, and according to Bismarckian theory (as well as all modern estimates), France is one of the top three most powerful nations on Earth. So I'm not sure how well that example holds up.

Secondly, I believe the question was, which nation's political system seems to hold potential, or something to that effect. I didn't say I predicted the rise of South Africa as the next British Empire, or anything like that. Just that its political system has proven surprisingly... Well, surprising. South Africa is the only nation to have had nuclear weapons, and disarm all of them. South Africa was the pioneer of successful black leadership. It's just an interesting place, and i'd like to see how it turns out in coming years.

 

[Bodi]

Mexico? You have got to be kidding me, that place is a corrupt warzone...

 

[Camlon]

Firstly, France is a world power -- it's one of the great five, and according to Bismarckian theory (as well as all modern estimates), France is one of the top three most powerful nations on Earth. So I'm not sure how well that example holds up.

Right now there is only one world power. No other country are strong enough to have a heavy influence on the rest of the world. Yes, France nominal total GDP is on 5th place, but it's still only 4.6% of the world GDP. On nearly the same level you find Italy who has 3.7% of worlds GDP. Is Italy a world power? Can Italy act on their own like the US did with the Iraq war.

Anyway, if your definition is going to be that loose, then South Africa has been a world power, but it's not a world power anymore.

Secondly, I believe the question was, which nation's political system seems to hold potential, or something to that effect. I didn't say I predicted the rise of South Africa as the next British Empire, or anything like that. Just that its political system has proven surprisingly... Well, surprising. South Africa is the only nation to have had nuclear weapons, and disarm all of them. South Africa was the pioneer of successful black leadership. It's just an interesting place, and i'd like to see how it turns out in coming years.

Yeah right, South Africa is so our model. South Africa has a murder rate of around 40 per 100K, and different from US (with a much lower rate) random people get shot. It's not just gang violence. The rape rate is very high. Their AIDS/HIV rate is very high and lies around 30% for pregnant women. Due to the high crime rate and their affirmative action (discrimination) then high educated people are leaving. Also, they are not taking care of their infrastructure and their economic growth rate is low.

If you want a model country for Africa and good black leadership, then Mauritius and Botswana are much better models.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Right now there is only one world power. No other country are strong...

Georgia would disagree.

 

[Kandahar]

First of all, I question whether some of these even qualify as developing countries. Singapore is fabulously wealthy. Chile and Mexico are in the OECD. And most parts of Malaysia are, for all intents and purposes, already "developed" as well.

I don't think it's really fair to compare the political systems of these countries. They face different challenges, and different political systems are appropriate for different circumstances. I can think of several developing countries that are doing quite well given their circumstances: Colombia, Ghana, and Botswana are all very well-governed and committed to economic development. The worst performers are countries that SHOULD be doing well but aren't (Argentina, I'm looking at you).

India is somewhere in between...although their economy has been booming for the last couple decades, this is largely DESPITE their business environment, rather than because of it. It's still a hugely inefficient system...but the flipside of that is that there is lots of room for improvement. On a human development level, India is far worse off than it should be. Levels of malnutrition and gender inequality are appallingly high, given the fact that India isn't THAT poor from a GDP per capita standpoint.

Brazil has far too much wealth inequality to really be effective in my opinion. Yes, its economy is booming...but the money is still going to relatively few people rather than producing many benefits to society.

 

[zimmer]

The term "developing country" can mean anything from a third-world economy with high ambitions to a country that is on the verge of becoming first world, but isn't traditionally thought as such in the United States. Economies can be treacherous, but a solid political foundation can allow a country to grow and develop on a regular footing, weathering storms and making the most of opportunities. Which developing country do you feel has the best political foundation for its people to advance?

Spain... Espana.
Once they get rid of Zapatero, who won thanks to the Madrid bombings... they might progress to a first world economy.

.

 

[Turin]

I would add Costa Rica to the list.