Whether Or Not A Gun Makes Your Home Safer Depends On...

[soylentgreen]

what is DISHONEST about that? Do you believe that there is no ground to ever support someone fighting back?

Of course there are and that can be done by legal and far less lethal means than suggested by the pro-gun crowd.
And the trouble with what you suggest is that it really is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff approach to a problem.

and I doubt a compliance rate of more than 15%. Have you paid attention to the Bump stock nonsense?

And in this I agree with you. Anyone who is seriously thinking a ban on guns in america would work is someone who has not learnt the lesson of the 1930's alcohol prohibition. Bans do not work until the majority of the citizens say it will. That is why the gun bans in australia and nz worked.

 

[DebateChallenge]

"A gunman fatally shot two people before parishioners shot and killed him at a church near Fort Worth, Texas, on Sunday, authorities said...."

Only in America would a dead gunman at the cost of TWO innocent people be considered a "win"

So you would want a higher body count? Perhaps you would be more satisfied with a body count like the one in the Christchurch mosque shootings in New Zealand. There weren't any good people with guns in those shootings.

So you would assign every man, woman and child there own Secret Service then....ready to spring into action, the moment a gunman strikes ?

No that would be way too expensive and inconvenient, not to mention how severely it infringes in independence. But I would allow people to own and carry guns to stop gunmen.

Not sure how these bodyguards would help prevent incidents like the Vegas shooting though?

Nothing short of clairvoyance could've prevented the Vegas shooting.

As you seem to have got lost in the woods, you were talking about enforcing the laws, to PREVENT mass shootings from happening. You know, by the police ?
You know, like they just happened in Atlanta, Boulder, Indianapolis and Colorado Springs...
So the question still stands: HOW exactly, do you prevent mass shootings like those ?

You can't prevent mass shootings.

But you can stop them.

 

[Rich2018]

So you would want a higher body count?

No, a zero body count
Am I right in saying that your interpretation of "enforcing laws against murder", are to have a "good" gunman on hand, whenever a murderer might strike ?

Out of curiosity, do you know how many homicides, gun related or otherwise, happen in the USA every year ?
Not counting attempted homicides

Perhaps you would be more satisfied with a body count like the one in the Christchurch mosque shootings in New Zealand. There weren't any good people with guns in those shootings.

Or if the NZ had actually enforced their law against murder and stopped him

No that would be way too expensive and inconvenient, not to mention how severely it infringes in independence.

You don't say !!!!

But I would allow people to own and carry guns to stop gunmen.

So how would that have "enforced" the laws against murder, as recently happened in mass shooters in Atlanta, Boulder, Indianapolis and Colorado Springs (all of which were done by men with previously clean criminal records) ?

Nothing short of clairvoyance could've prevented the Vegas shooting.

Bingo
So there goes your point about "enforcing" the law against murder doesn't it ?

You can't prevent mass shootings.

But you can stop them.

Once they're already shot someone...or more.

 

[lemmiwinx]

Not sure if lack of being startled into a lack of capacity to plan, organise, initiate, self-monitor is good for promoting the 2nd. Just saying.

I self-monitor all the time. My therapist highly recommends it. She claims it'll keep me out of trouble.

 

[Rich2018]

I self-monitor all the time. My therapist highly recommends it. She claims it'll keep me out of trouble.

I self merrimack personally.

 

[lemmiwinx]

I self merrimack personally.

Very civil response.

 

[Rich2018]

Very civil response.

...down the long and winding Hampton Roads.

 

[lemmiwinx]

S

...down the long and winding Hampton Roads.

Speaking of long winding roads here's a little bit more of them.

 

[Rich2018]

S

Speaking of long winding roads here's a little bit more of them.

1:20 if you don't know the song.

 

[Nickyjo]

Lets discuss how you want to reduce access to firearms without infringing the rights of lawful gun owners.

Universal background checks, recording private sales or transfers, magazine capacity restrictions, safe home storage requirements. Suggest looking at the Brady website, Bradyunited.org

 

[Rucker61]

Universal background checks

UBCs aren't effective or enforceable:


In the 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies" the DOJ noted that “universal” background checks can’t be effective without a reduction in the illegal sources of guns to criminals and can’t be enforced without comprehensive firearm registration.

In "Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016", the DOJ reported in Table 5 where criminals get their guns. We see that vast majority of guns in the hands of criminals come from straw purchases, family transfers, theft and the underground market (Illegal sources of firearms that include markets for stolen goods, middlemen for stolen goods, criminals or criminal enterprises, or individuals or groups involved in sales of illegal drug). A total of 0.8% come from gun shows. Purchases from "good guys" in private sales don't even show up.


What does a UBC do to prevent criminals from getting guns?

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

details

health.ucdavis.edu

, recording private sales or transfers

Only law abiding citizens will do this, meaning it will do nothing to reduce or prevent crime.

, magazine capacity restrictions

Given that standard capacity magazines are in common use for lawful purposes, this violates the protections of the Second Amendment.

, safe home storage requirements

Violates DC v Heller.

. Suggest looking at the Brady website, Bradyunited.org

When I need a laugh, I will.

 

[Nickyjo]

UBCs aren't effective or enforceable:


In the 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies" the DOJ noted that “universal” background checks can’t be effective without a reduction in the illegal sources of guns to criminals and can’t be enforced without comprehensive firearm registration.
++ So you would allow someone who walked away from a hospital for the criminally insane walk into a gun shop and buy a gun. No law or solution will solve the problem of gun violence. The objective is to reduce the number of victims. Anti-gun control advocates seem to demand perfection from laws and rules.

In "Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016", the DOJ reported in Table 5 where criminals get their guns. We see that vast majority of guns in the hands of criminals come from straw purchases, family transfers, theft and the underground market (Illegal sources of firearms that include markets for stolen goods, middlemen for stolen goods, criminals or criminal enterprises, or individuals or groups involved in sales of illegal drug). A total of 0.8% come from gun shows. Purchases from "good guys" in private sales don't even show up.
What does a UBC do to prevent criminals from getting guns?

++ It might prevent or slow down a wife beater or two with restraining orders from getting guns.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

details

health.ucdavis.edu

Only law abiding citizens will do this, meaning it will do nothing to reduce or prevent crime.
++ As noted below, why have any laws regulating any potentially dangerous activity or product?


Given that standard capacity magazines are in common use for lawful purposes, this violates the protections of the Second Amendment.
++ Not sure I understand. I can publish a newspaper lawfully and still be subject to libel laws. I can have a car without seatbelts or smog control that I use for lawful purposes. And the obvious question comes up, would you place any limit on any weapon’s capacity. How many rounds do you need to kill a deer or moose?


Violates DC v Heller.
++ The court left open legislation regulating weapons.


When I need a laugh, I will.

++ Go and laugh in the face of Brady’s family and after that of my friend who is in his 4th decade in a wheelchair.
And points seem to reveal the old bumper sticker mentality, “When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns.” Well, when (heroin/robbery/trespassing) are outlawed, only outlaws will (use heroin/steal/trespass.) Keep your guns happily. Just show someone you know how to use them, store them safely, and if you manufacture or sell them, abide by the same liability rules as other industries. And travel the world to visit other developed nations just as free as the US with fewer guns and, go figure, fewer gun deaths.

 

[Wayne Jr]

Of course, guns are dangerous to the bad guys, they're supposed to be. But in the right hands guns are very safe, to those you don't want to hurt.

You mean 'harmless', which still is not true because 'the rights hands' doesn't actually mean anything and the gun will still fire if the handler is negligent.

 

[Wayne Jr]

Safe storage should be encouraged but not required by law.

Safe storage should be required by law because people are leaving their guns out where children have gotten ahold of them and the gun owner is not punished when an injury or death occured as a result.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Obviously you have no experience with guns.

So what? Using one is obviously not required to know why they exist and what type of damage bullets do.

 

[Rich2018]

Safe storage should be required by law because people are leaving their guns out where children have gotten ahold of them and the gun owner is not punished when an injury or death occured as a result.

So children would have to be 18 before a parent could keep a loaded gun by the bedside ?

 

[TurtleDude]

I self merrimack personally.

now that was funny.

 

[TurtleDude]

Universal background checks, recording private sales or transfers, magazine capacity restrictions, safe home storage requirements. Suggest looking at the Brady website, Bradyunited.org

the brady thugs are a joke and among the most dishonest turds going. I ripped up Sarah Brady so badly 33 years ago, she said she'd never come back to Cincinnati. She was a lying POS and the organization named after her and her husband are lying POSs.

as if criminal are going to comply with any of that. All those are are ways to harass honest people

 

[DebateChallenge]

No, a zero body count
Am I right in saying that your interpretation of "enforcing laws against murder", are to have a "good" gunman on hand, whenever a murderer might strike ?

Yes, or at least allowing good people to own and carry guns so they will be able to stop would be murderers.

Out of curiosity, do you know how many homicides, gun related or otherwise, happen in the USA every year ?
Not counting attempted homicides

About 4.96 per 100,000 people, it varies from year to year but that was in the year 2018.

Or if the NZ had actually enforced their law against murder and stopped him

By allowing good people to carry guns.

You don't say !!!!

I sure do.

So how would that have "enforced" the laws against murder, as recently happened in mass shooters in Atlanta, Boulder, Indianapolis and Colorado Springs (all of which were done by men with previously clean criminal records) ?

By allowing good people a means to stop the shooters.

Bingo
So there goes your point about "enforcing" the law against murder doesn't it ?

In rare cases such as the Vegas shooting, the law would be impossible to enforce without clairvoyance, but such cases are rare and far and few between.

Once they're already shot someone...or more.

Better than letting them shoot fifty plus people, as in the case of the New Zealand mosque shootings.

 

[Rucker61]

++ It might prevent or slow down a wife beater or two with restraining orders from getting guns.

How? Straw purchases, theft, and the black market are wide open?

++ Go and laugh in the face of Brady’s family and after that of my friend who is in his 4th decade in a wheelchair.

I'm not laughing at Brady's family, but the suggestion that the Brady bunch is a good source for Constitutional, effective gun control.

And points seem to reveal the old bumper sticker mentality, “When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns.” Well, when (heroin/robbery/trespassing) are outlawed, only outlaws will (use heroin/steal/trespass.) Keep your guns happily. Just show someone you know how to use them, store them safely, and if you manufacture or sell them, abide by the same liability rules as other industries.

I follow the laws. Stop trying to implement unconstitutional, ineffective and unenforceable solutions.

And travel the world to visit other developed nations just as free as the US with fewer guns and, go figure, fewer gun deaths.

I've been to 22 countries on four continents and one subcontinent. I don't recall China being as free as the US, even though they have zero gun deaths from anyone but the government.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Safe storage should be required by law because people are leaving their guns out where children have gotten ahold of them and the gun owner is not punished when an injury or death occured as a result.

Is safe storage required by law for medicine? Power tools? Cars and car keys?

 

[noonereal]

allowing good people to own and carry guns so they will be able to stop would be murderers.

earth to challenge, earth to challenge, good people do not stop would be murderers.

 

[DebateChallenge]

So what? Using one is obviously not required to know why they exist and what type of damage bullets do.

What you say here and what you said in post #487 goes to show just how ignorant you are when it comes to guns. Arguing about something you have no experience with is pointless and will get you nowhere. When you get experience like me we can have a reasonable discussion.

 

[TurtleDude]

earth to challenge, earth to challenge, good people do not stop would be murderers.

really? where did you come up with that nonsense? is it a faith based "belief" because it sure as hell isn't factual. Did you hear about a recent incident where a citizen used a telescoped rifle to stop a mass shooter?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Well, when (heroin/robbery/trespassing) are outlawed, only outlaws will (use heroin/steal/trespass.)

Guns are not the same thing as heroin, robbery, and trespassing.