earthworm
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2005
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Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.
Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?
Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?
Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?
Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?
What think you?
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.
Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?
Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?
Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?
Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?
What think you?
I suppose it depends on the medium being exploited as well. Some have better privacy policies than others. I think we can both agree it's a terribly difficult situation.Yeah, I'm talking about parents taking these things away. I can easily agree with your thoughts on the one being bullied...if one could police the posts so the child wouldn't see them. But I don't think that can be done. Even if you defriend the trouble-makers, unless all one's other friends defriend as well, their posts will still be seen. I don't know . . . maybe a month's hiatus and then try again...?
Why would I want my kid to stand in a room surrounded by people who are making fun of him and calling him names? That's just plain sadistic. Get him out of the room. Sign him off social media. Same thing.
I understand what you're saying, but what I'm saying is it's not usually that cut and dry or black and white. Bullying is more than physical or even words, it could be something as simple as otherwise innocuous actions, but ones which are obviously intended to intimidate.No what I'm saying is that if nothing happened in school it's the parent's responsibility to deal with it not the schools.
I suppose it depends on the medium being exploited as well. Some have better privacy policies than others. I think we can both agree it's a terribly difficult situation.
I understand what you're saying, but what I'm saying is it's not usually that cut and dry or black and white. Bullying is more than physical or even words, it could be something as simple as otherwise innocuous actions, but ones which are obviously intended to intimidate.
I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is there's no on/off switch and that what happens at home carries over to school and vice versa.
I would not.Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
The problem with deciding where a line "should" be drawn is the fact real life has no lines. The bullying which happens over text and Facebook over the weekend is brought into the schools on Monday. This is a problem our school dealt with just this week.
What "should" happen is parents SHOULD jerk on knot in their child's tail if their child is bullying someone when they are home. What SHOULD happen is the school should only be responsible for educating, not teaching manners and how to behave. What SHOULD happen is parents should be parents and be responsible for their child's actions.
Unfortunately, what SHOULD happen is not what actually happens. So the school has to step in and take action when behaviors over the weekend have an effect at school. The hard part is knowing what qualifies as affecting education. At the end of the day, if the school can help prevent the abuse of one child by another child or children, then they should do what they can to protect the first child.
At the end of the day, the school is part of the community and the community should do everything they can to protect children who need protecting.
I agree, give them one of those granny cell phones. Calls home, parents work, and 911.
Why does a kid need a phone at all?
Agreed. I want to say kids don't need phones... though the definition of "need" should factor in as well... but the reality is that the world has changed. For good or for bad, they are becoming more and more necessary.Actually, I want to agree with this, but pay phones are few and far between - at least where I live.Why does a kid need a phone at all?
What "should" happen is parents SHOULD jerk on knot in their child's tail if their child is bullying someone when they are home. What SHOULD happen is the school should only be responsible for educating, not teaching manners and how to behave. What SHOULD happen is parents should be parents and be responsible for their child's actions.
It would depend on the issue really. For example, whenever students are caught with alcohol, most schools suspend or dismiss the student from the athletic team. I see it happen all the time at different schools. I would think if a student attempted to murder another one, then they would not be allowed at school either.Agreed. Do you view bullying as a special case? Would you, for example, view a school policy of expelling a student who committed a crime - say possession of marijuana - off school property as a legitimate exercise of school authority?
When you say "any kind of punishment", are you limiting that to major offense? Because surely you understand schools simply don't have time to play phone tag every time someone gets a detention for being late to class.I will agree with part of what you said.
The school should get the parents involved to resolve whatever situation arises, however if the parents do not do anything or the behaviour continues, then the school should step in if, as you say, it is affecting the schoolwork of the child.
The parent should always be the first call before the school hands down any kind of punishment.
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.
Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?
Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?
Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?
Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?
What think you?
Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.
Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?
Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?
Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?
Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?
What think you?
Good post. I like your hole in the fence scenario. In that case, the school was probably negligent and should be held responsible.I think it depends slightly on if we are talking specifically about authority as it relates to your bullying example or if we also include general responsibility. For example: An elementary school has a fence around it's playground. But there is a widening hole and one day a second grader climbs through it and his struck by a car. Is the school responsible? I think they probably are. In that sense what happens when the student leaves school, even if it was illicit, is very much on the schools shoulders.
But authority over students? I'm not sure. It seems hard to argue (to me) that a public school should have the right to penalize or scrutinize what students do with their speech (FB, Twitter, etc) on their own free time regardless of the deleterious effects it might have at school. Unless it's against the law in which case I think schools have clauses that give them rights to discipline students I'm not sure it's a justifiable, or good for that matter, precedent to establish.
Though I'm sympathetic to contrary arguments.
To a great degree, sure. Fact is that most kids meet at school, and spend the majority of their active social time at school, and much of this time is spent with other kids that they both like and dislike.Implicit in your scenario described is the school's lack of involvement in dealing with the bullying in the first place, since you describe it as occurring at at school and then expanding. As such, the school is actually complicit in the bullying since it allows it to occur.
Before anything else, I believe those who administer schools should take responsibility for their role in the process. Without such, it simply becomes a matter of doing what is expedient instead of doing that which fosters safety and a healthy learning environment.
Actually, I want to agree with this, but pay phones are few and far between - at least where I live.
It would depend on the issue really. For example, whenever students are caught with alcohol, most schools suspend or dismiss the student from the athletic team. I see it happen all the time at different schools. I would think if a student attempted to murder another one, then they would not be allowed at school either.
When you say "any kind of punishment", are you limiting that to major offense? Because surely you understand schools simply don't have time to play phone tag every time someone gets a detention for being late to class.
If you're simply talking about major offenses, then I agree and usually schools will. I obviously cannot speak for all schools, but from what I know of the schools I have knowledge/experience with, they will call.
As a kid I can't remember even one time I needed to make a call onthe Street.
What is so important to a kid that they have to make a call right at that second, and plkease don't say he needs it for an emergency, because that is not true. There si always a pone available in case of an emergency.
Could be used to call for help.Why does a kid need a phone at all?
Turning to the school isn't the answer. File restraining orders and a harassment lawsuit against the children directly instead.Example: Mary and her friends have been harassing Dorothy at school. Bullying, if you will. Said harassing and bullying eventually expands to walking home, and then beyond that to Facebook and the internet at all times of the day.
Where should the line be for a public school's authority over students?
Should the school's authority to discipline stop at the school's property line?
Should the school be responsible until the student(s) get home?
Should the school have authority to discipline at all hours, which would essentially be anything and anywhere?
What think you?
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