Where Is The Praise?

[liblady]

i looked. big deal. the overwhelming majority of cathoilic women have used birth control. whether it's 68% or 75% or 98%, it's a LOT.

 

[mac]

i looked. big deal. the overwhelming majority of cathoilic women have used birth control. wether it's 68% or 75% or 98%, it's a LOT.

The implication was over 90% use birth control, not have used at least once in their lifetime. There is a difference. :shrug:

 

[liblady]

The implication was over 90% use birth control, not have used at least once in their lifetime. There is a difference. :shrug:

i agree. but as i said, 68% regular users is just as impactful. a lot a cafeteria catholics out there.

 

[mac]

i agree. but as i said, 68% regular users is just as impactful. a lot a cafeteria catholics out there.

What do you mean by Cafeteria Catholics? What relevance do you think 68% (if any more accurate than 98%) has to the debate? Personally I would rather 68% of Catholics used birth control than got abortions, so, I don't think the impact of this is as effective as non-Catholics seem to think.

 

[choiceone]

How does this substantiate the 90% claim?

Sorry, I thought you wanted both points substantiated. I said in my post that I had not seen the actual reports. That means I did not vouch for the claim, but merely put forth what I had noted in the news. Now, I have not only read the site to which you linked, but have looked at the stats.

One site for the stats:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf.

If they are hard to access that way, go to: National Health Statistics Report, Ananji Chandra et al, Mar 3, 2011, which provides the Guttmacher Institute publication RK Jones and J Dreweke, Countering and unpublished tabulations of the 2006-2008 National Survey of Family Growth, Conventional wisdom: New evidence on religion and contraceptive use (NY: Guttmacher Institute, 2011).

Based on the stats, the proper statement would be that, of self-identified Catholic women who are not pregnant, post-partum, or trying to get pregnant, 87% are using contraceptive methods not approved by the Catholic church, 11% are using no method, and 2% are using natural method (i.e., the rhythm method). The proper statement is that 87% of self-identified Catholic women are using methods of BC that the Catholic church says are wrong.

Who cares about the difference between 87%, 90%, and 98%? The Catholic church wants women to get married, have sex without any BC but the rhythm method, produce lots of children, stay home, and raise them. It does not want women to work, though most women need to work even if they would rather stay home because their husbands do not make a sufficient living for their families. Some women just want to have careers. Some women do not want to produce lots of children because it is terrible for the health of most women to produce more than two or three, and it is bad for the health of many women to produce two or three. The Catholic church does not care even if an 11-year-old victim of forcible rape will be permanently paralyzed from the neck down and become permanently psychotic if she is forced to give birth: it just wants babies out of females even if they said "no." It thinks women are human breeding cattle, but most of the women themselves don't think they are. Not surprising.

 

[mac]

Sorry, I thought you wanted both points substantiated. I said in my post that I had not seen the actual reports. That means I did not vouch for the claim, but merely put forth what I had noted in the news. Now, I have not only read the site to which you linked, but have looked at the stats.

One site for the stats:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/Religion-and-Contraceptive-Use.pdf.

If they are hard to access that way, go to: National Health Statistics Report, Ananji Chandra et al, Mar 3, 2011, which provides the Guttmacher Institute publication RK Jones and J Dreweke, Countering and unpublished tabulations of the 2006-2008 National Survey of Family Growth, Conventional wisdom: New evidence on religion and contraceptive use (NY: Guttmacher Institute, 2011).

Based on the stats, the proper statement would be that, of self-identified Catholic women who are not pregnant, post-partum, or trying to get pregnant, 87% are using contraceptive methods not approved by the Catholic church, 11% are using no method, and 2% are using natural method (i.e., the rhythm method). The proper statement is that 87% of self-identified Catholic women are using methods of BC that the Catholic church says are wrong.

Who cares about the difference between 87%, 90%, and 98%? The Catholic church wants women to get married, have sex without any BC but the rhythm method, produce lots of children, stay home, and raise them. It does not want women to work, though most women need to work even if they would rather stay home because their husbands do not make a sufficient living for their families. Some women just want to have careers. Some women do not want to produce lots of children because it is terrible for the health of most women to produce more than two or three, and it is bad for the health of many women to produce two or three. The Catholic church does not care even if an 11-year-old victim of forcible rape will be permanently paralyzed from the neck down and become permanently psychotic if she is forced to give birth: it just wants babies out of females even if they said "no." It thinks women are human breeding cattle, but most of the women themselves don't think they are. Not surprising.

What does what people want have anything to do with sin?

 

[choiceone]

What does what people want have anything to do with sin?

Sorry, I did not realize we were talking about sin. If we are, please note that my understanding is that Jesus Christ taught we were all sinners and should try hard not to be but recognize that if we judge others, we will be judged. The Roman Catholic pope told everybody who was not Roman Catholic that they were engaged in all sorts of sexual sins, and since Jesus Christ taught that we should be forgiving, I prayed that God would forgive the pope for judging others instead of trying not to be a sinner himself. In just a few days, the biggest sex scandal in Roman Catholic church history broke out into public news and is an ongoing problem for the church, whose pope may actually be charged with covering up sex crimes of priests by the International Court. We are supposed to work on our own morality, not stick our noses in other people's private business. Stop coveting the contents of other people's sex organs. Stop committing adultery by concerning yourself with the sex organs of women other than your own wife. Stop trying to make the government violate the commandment, "He who curses (=grievously physically or mentally afflicts) father or mother, let him die the death." Stop interfering with what is happening inside other people's bodies and clean up your own act.

 

[mac]

Sorry, I did not realize we were talking about sin. If we are, please note that my understanding is that Jesus Christ taught we were all sinners and should try hard not to be but recognize that if we judge others, we will be judged. The Roman Catholic pope told everybody who was not Roman Catholic that they were engaged in all sorts of sexual sins, and since Jesus Christ taught that we should be forgiving, I prayed that God would forgive the pope for judging others instead of trying not to be a sinner himself. In just a few days, the biggest sex scandal in Roman Catholic church history broke out into public news and is an ongoing problem for the church, whose pope may actually be charged with covering up sex crimes of priests by the International Court. We are supposed to work on our own morality, not stick our noses in other people's private business. Stop coveting the contents of other people's sex organs. Stop committing adultery by concerning yourself with the sex organs of women other than your own wife. Stop trying to make the government violate the commandment, "He who curses (=grievously physically or mentally afflicts) father or mother, let him die the death." Stop interfering with what is happening inside other people's bodies and clean up your own act.

We're talking about the Church's stance, how can you not now we are talking about sin? The Church opposes contraception because they feel it interferes with God's intentions. Saying that that is irrelevant is you attempting to impose your moral view on them.

 

[choiceone]

We're talking about the Church's stance, how can you not now we are talking about sin? The Church opposes contraception because they feel it interferes with God's intentions. Saying that that is irrelevant is you attempting to impose your moral view on them.

Sorry, I don't think the Roman Catholic church is a viable authority on Christian values or sin because the pope is not capable of demonstrating instantaneous spiritual healing of physical illness, physical disability, insanity, or death. If he did, I might be interested in investigating. Otherwise, as a Protestant, I pay attention to the statement, "Call no man your father upon this earth . . . Call no man Master, for there is only one master, that is Christ." I don't consider the pope Christ and I do not ever refer to any priests as "father," as this is a direct contradiction of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

[Bodi]

Sorry, I don't think the Roman Catholic church is a viable authority on Christian values or sin because the pope is not capable of demonstrating instantaneous spiritual healing of physical illness, physical disability, insanity, or death. If he did, I might be interested in investigating. Otherwise, as a Protestant, I pay attention to the statement, "Call no man your father upon this earth . . . Call no man Master, for there is only one master, that is Christ." I don't consider the pope Christ and I do not ever refer to any priests as "father," as this is a direct contradiction of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

You begin a lot of posts with "sorry".