Where are we going?

[eohrnberger]

Since you don't contradict my argument that the right-wing fosters and carries out this violence, you might consider that it can spread to the other side as well.

You haven't shown any proof of anything.
You've just spewed the left's political push narratives, in the hope that if its repeated often enough it becomes the accepted truth, i.e. gaslighting and propagandizing.

Did you realize that when political discourse and political rhetoric descends and degrades to the point where political enemies are identified, dehumanized, the next thing is totalitarianism? History has shown this to be the case. Why are you pushing so hard for a totalitarian regime?

Of course you don't.

You are ignoring the entire right-wing's belief that they have a right to political violence and are led by a demagogue undermining the peaceful transfer of power, based only on his psychotic word.

From my view and experience there is no such wide ranging or generally accepted belief. This appears to be little more than politically motived vilification, and it's results, as described in my response above.

But Hillary!

You're working that incredibly weak whataboutism logical fallacy straight into the ground.

Turning a blind eye 1/2 of the story only to trumpet the 1/2 which agrees with your politics is nothing more than political propaganda.

Some here have condemned the Republicans in January 2021 who didn't vote for certification of the Electoral Vote, yet ignore that:

Democrats Objected To Electoral Vote Certification In 2000, 2004, 2016

Leading Democrats over the weekend blasted Republican representatives for announcing their intention to object to the Electoral College vote certification on Jan. 6. However, some elected Democrats have objected to certifying Electoral College wins for the presidential contests of 2000, 2004...

www.dailywire.com

Being this politically one sided, you are more of the problem than any sort of solution, as such, I simply can't take you seriously in any way.

 

[j brown's body]

You haven't shown any proof of anything.
You've just spewed the left's political push narratives, in the hope that if its repeated often enough it becomes the accepted truth, i.e. gaslighting and propagandizing.

Did you realize that when political discourse and political rhetoric descends and degrades to the point where political enemies are identified, dehumanized, the next thing is totalitarianism? History has shown this to be the case. Why are you pushing so hard for a totalitarian regime?


From my view and experience there is no such wide ranging or generally accepted belief. This appears to be little more than politically motived vilification, and it's results, as described in my response above.


Turning a blind eye 1/2 of the story only to trumpet the 1/2 which agrees with your politics is nothing more than political propaganda.

Some here have condemned the Republicans in January 2021 who didn't vote for certification of the Electoral Vote, yet ignore that:

Democrats Objected To Electoral Vote Certification In 2000, 2004, 2016

Leading Democrats over the weekend blasted Republican representatives for announcing their intention to object to the Electoral College vote certification on Jan. 6. However, some elected Democrats have objected to certifying Electoral College wins for the presidential contests of 2000, 2004...

www.dailywire.com

Being this politically one sided, you are more of the problem than any sort of solution, as such, I simply can't take you seriously in any way.

The fact that refuse to address any of my points shows the absurdity of your weak whataboutism.

At the very best, you are justifying the right-wing violence by claiming Democrats have raised specific objections to election results in the past. But they have never claimed, with no evidence, that elections they lost were fraudulent because of the psychotic rantings of their political leader.

 

[j brown's body]

Demonizing implies that Lies were told.

The Republicans brought this on Kavanaugh by 1. Unethically stacking the court and 2. refusing to vet him properly.

They just feel entitled to do whatever the **** they want and then are outraged at others by the consequences.

 

[eohrnberger]

Fair point about both ends of the spectrum needing to tone down their rhetoric.

But I think a pretty strong argument can be made that Trump represents the extreme and he has a massive following that will seemingly do anything he demands. When the extreme becomes the norm, or at least acceptable by a majority, it is no longer the extreme.

I think you may be putting far more importance and significance on Trump than he is worthy of. I'm not seeing any large part of the electorate 'do anything he demands'.

That the events leading up to and involving 1/6 did not cause the republican party and a majority of republicans to completely distance themselves from Trump is a real problem.

I don't see the 1/6 riot at the capital as anything more than what it was, a protest which got overheated and turned into a riot; this view backup up by the charges that the majority of those who breached the capitol security barrier that day have been appropriately charged with.

Hawking 1/6 as 'A Dire Threat To Our Democracy', hawking 'MAGA Republican Extremists' are both just other examples of inflammatory and extreme political rhetoric as any other.

 

[eohrnberger]

The fact that refuse to address any of my points shows the absurdity of your weak whataboutism.

At the very best, you are justifying the right-wing violence by claiming Democrats have raised specific objections to election results in the past. But they have never claimed, with no evidence, that elections they lost were fraudulent because of the psychotic rantings of their political leader.

In your view the left is as pure as the driven snow.
Oh please. I'm not that uninformed.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I suspect we will be in this mode for at least another decade. At some point the younger generations will have the numbers to obtain true political power and they don’t have the same appetites that the boomer generation does.

 

[j brown's body]

In your view the left is as pure as the driven snow.
Oh please. I'm not that uninformed.

Still dodging.

 

[Josie]

Someone jumped on the stage to try to attack Zeldin too.

 

[eohrnberger]

Still dodging.

I'm not the one who's dodging.
You have yet to post a citation to anything, and have chosen, instead, to continue to spew the same political extremist rhetoric that you are complaining about.

As I posted, you are making a caricature of yourself, being without any credibility. Keep it up.

 

[Buckeyes85]

I think you may be putting far more importance and significance on Trump than he is worthy of. I'm not seeing any large part of the electorate 'do anything he demands'.

Really? Trump retains the support of a solid majority of Republicans and he proudly announces that every time he can.
Trump tells them 2020 was stolen from him, and you/they believe it;
Trump demands absolute and unqualified support of all he does and all he says, and you/they give it;
Trump vitriolically attacks anyone who opposes him, including members of his own party, and his followers fall in line;
Trump wants any republican that questions him to be driven out of office, and his followers make it happen.
Trump decries any criticism or investigation of him as a conspiratorial witch hunt, and his people believe it.
Trump continues to demand his faithful flood him with money to defend the challenges he brought on himself, and they give it.

It would be a much shorter, perhaps a non existent list, to articulate the things he has demanded that his flock have not agreed to.

 

[j brown's body]

Really? Trump retains the support of a solid majority of Republicans and he proudly announces that every time he can.
Trump tells them 2020 was stolen from him, and you/they believe it;
Trump demands absolute and unqualified support of all he does and all he says, and you/they give it;
Trump vitriolically attacks anyone who opposes him, including members of his own party, and his followers fall in line;
Trump wants any republican that questions him to be driven out of office, and his followers make it happen.
Trump decries any criticism or investigation of him as a conspiratorial witch hunt, and his people believe it.
Trump continues to demand his faithful flood him with money to defend the challenges he brought on himself, and they give it.

It would be a much shorter, perhaps a non existent list, to articulate the things he has demanded that his flock have not agreed to.

It's difficult to ignore Trump's influence as we see Republican candidates across the country claim that they may not accept the election results if they lose.

But our friend here is an expert at ignoring.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The right-wing fosters this political violence and then hold themselves up as the true stewards of law and order.

At some point "progressives" (really anyone further left on the political scale) are going to have to accept that if they were so right about all of this they would be in real long term power, but the moderates and independents are not exactly lining up behind today's Democratic Party either.

That does not mean they are entirely responsible for what we are seeing out of today's hate and racist filled White Nationalism Republican Party under Trumpism, but they are culpable for what we are seeing in response that generates the lunacy of those like MTG, or Boebert, or Gosar, or Gaetz, or Jordan.

Of course the far right is hugely responsible for the rhetoric, conspiracy theory, and outright intention to see their opposition harmed. Trump's silence on this ironically speaks volumes.

But do not pretend the left does not have their factions of lunatics out there with the full intention to go harm someone.

 

[j brown's body]

I'm not the one who's dodging.
You have yet to post a citation to anything, and have chosen, instead, to continue to spew the same political extremist rhetoric that you are complaining about.

As I posted, you are making a caricature of yourself, being without any credibility. Keep it up.

When a political party believes that the second amendment gives you the right to poltical violence, should we not expect political violence?

 

[Buckeyes85]

I suspect we will be in this mode for at least another decade. At some point the younger generations will have the numbers to obtain true political power and they don’t have the same appetites that the boomer generation does.

I think it's going to last a lot longer than that.
In 15-20 years, the boomer generation worshiping Trump may be too old to storm the capitol, but they'll still be voting, and it will be 100% MAGA or the closest they can get to it.

And actually, a large amount of the support Trump has is with post baby boomer, which technically ended in 1964.

 

[j brown's body]

At some point "progressives" (really anyone further left on the political scale) are going to have to accept that if they were so right about all of this they would be in real long term power, but the moderates and independents are not exactly lining up behind today's Democratic Party either.

That does not mean they are entirely responsible for what we are seeing out of today's hate and racist filled White Nationalism Republican Party under Trumpism, but they are culpable for what we are seeing in response that generates the lunacy of those like MTG, or Boebert, or Gosar, or Gaetz, or Jordan.

Of course the far right is hugely responsible for the rhetoric, conspiracy theory, and outright intention to see their opposition harmed. Trump's silence on this ironically speaks volumes.

But do not pretend the left does not have their factions of lunatics out there with the full intention to go harm someone.

Who on the left does this?

 

[Slartibartfast]

I think it's going to last a lot longer than that.
In 15-20 years, the boomer generation worshiping Trump may be too old to storm the capitol, but they'll still be voting, and it will be 100% MAGA or the closest they can get to it.

And actually, a large amount of the support Trump has is with post baby boomer, which technically ended in 1964.

Yup most of the youngest millennials of newer generations have a perspective that is almost never mentioned on this forum. The real world is so completely different than the topics that are on this forum as the media tends to cater to older people and the younger people tend to have a social peer to peer model of media consumption versus a centralized broadcast model.

The future will (by the perspective of most here) be weird and resemble more stuff like Linus tech tips or Jenna marbles (small company catering to a small audience) and less like NBC.

The social narratives will be different and far less violent.

 

[eohrnberger]

It's difficult to ignore Trump's influence as we see Republican candidates across the country claim that they may not accept the election results if they lose.

Yet you have chosen to ignore and / or minimalize:

Election deniers? 82 Democrats who called GOP election wins questionable, illegitimate or stolen

"Without voter suppression, Stacey Abrams would be the governor of Georgia; Andrew Gillum is the governor of Florida," then-Sen. Kamala Harris said.

justthenews.com

But our friend here is an expert at ignoring.

 

[jpevans]

Someone jumped on the stage to try to attack Zeldin too.

Wingnuts come in all shapes & sizes. Wait 'til the Rigged Election* beats some of those righty tighty A-holes who want to control the world.
* sarcasm

 

[jpevans]

I think it's going to last a lot longer than that.
In 15-20 years, the boomer generation worshiping Trump may be too old to storm the capitol, but they'll still be voting, and it will be 100% MAGA or the closest they can get to it.

And actually, a large amount of the support Trump has is with post baby boomer, which technically ended in 1964.

How long did the "Troubles" in Ireland last?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Are these people more skilled, producitive,hard working than the national average?

At what they do? Yes, very much so.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Congressman Scalise shot. A plot to kidnap the Governor of Michigan. Violent protesters in the Capitol carrying zip-ties. An armed man arrested outside the family home of Justice Kavanaugh. The Speaker’s 82 year-old husband beaten with a hammer.

This is heading to a place not unlike the assassination era of the 1960’s.

These are the USAs "Bread & Circus" days IMO.
I imagine the folks in the Soviet Union saw these days firsthand a few decades ago.

Buckle up, its going to get a LOT worse before it gets any better. If it ever gets any better.
Thats just my opinion.
Always sort of wanted to see the collapse of an empire up close, never thought I would.
But by golly I may get my wish after all.

 

[eohrnberger]

You can start by removing all the 'you's that are in there, for the simple reason that they don't apply.

Really? Trump retains the support of a solid majority of Republicans and he proudly announces that every time he can.
Trump tells them 2020 was stolen from him, and you/they believe it;
Trump demands absolute and unqualified support of all he does and all he says, and you/they give it;
Trump vitriolically attacks anyone who opposes him, including members of his own party, and his followers fall in line;
Trump wants any republican that questions him to be driven out of office, and his followers make it happen.
Trump decries any criticism or investigation of him as a conspiratorial witch hunt, and his people believe it.
Trump continues to demand his faithful flood him with money to defend the challenges he brought on himself, and they give it.

It would be a much shorter, perhaps a non existent list, to articulate the things he has demanded that his flock have not agreed to.

Reading and re-reading this list I'm left with the impression that while each point in turn may in reality apply to 'some', but you are portraying each as unequivocally applying to all, in absolute terms.

'absolute and unqualified support', 'any republican that questions', 'decries any criticism', always in absolute terms, terms that more realistically probably only apply to some.

And this is your 'dire threat to our Democratic Republic'? I hardly think so. I think our Democratic Republic is much more resilient than that, and would certainly hope so. Thinking back in US history, Theodore Roosevelt Jr. comes to mind as being similarly bombastic, and our Democratic Republic survived that.

Interesting to note that you use such absolute terms in the same way that Trump does, and yet call for extreme political voices to rightly tone down their rhetoric.

'Flood him with money' - "A fool and his money are soon parted".
I don't contribute to any politician or political campaign, as a matter of policy.

 

[Blue Dog]

We are heading toward the lesson of Lord Of The Flies….

 

[j brown's body]

When a political party believes that the second amendment gives you the right to poltical violence, should we not expect political violence?

Crickets.

 

[eohrnberger]

When a political party believes that the second amendment gives you the right to poltical violence, should we not expect political violence?

You are first going to have to support your assertion that the Republican "political party believes that the second amendment gives you the right to poltical violence".

Historically, it is the left which resorts to political violence.