When will conservatives accept the fact that Iraq had no WMD or ties to al Qaeda?

[Jack Pott]

we saw on TV the inspectors waiting outside locked gates while trucks were being loaded - once the trucks left outside another gate, the U.N. inspectors were being allowed in!:shock: :rofl I am sure your left wing mind can come up with a 'reasonable' explanation for this besides Hussein was hiding that Sarin, Mustard gas, and other WMD we later found, all of which he had told Blix he had destroyed, all of which Blix reported as having been destroyed!

And you assume there were WMD in those trucks because...?

You do know that the claim concerning Iraq's alleged mobile biological labs has been debunked, right?

PS.

US weapons inspectors concluded that: "ISG judged the mobile units were impractical for biological agent production and almost certainly designed and built for the generation of hydrogen."

https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/chap6_annxD.html

Colin Powell admitted that the claim concerning mobile biological weapons labs in Iraq was false:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997766

 

[Hoot]

It's the old, tired republican mantra...

Tell a lie...

Repeat the lie...

Keep repeating the lie until enough people believe.

 

[ProudAmerican]

A small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions were found, that's all. A small number of old, abandoned munitions is not "stockpiles of WMD". The fact is that we knew Iraq had WMD in the 1980s (the US even sold Iraq materials that were used for developing WMD in the 1980s) but US weapons inspectors concluded that Iraq destroyed its WMD during the 1990s under UN supervision.

PS.

You still haven't provided any proof to back up your claim that Iraq moved its WMD to Syria.

this is how the left continues to change the rules. they say things like "a small number is not a stockpile"

make no mistake, the left doesnt WANT TO BE SPECIFIC. they leave things open ended so they can continue to change the rules.

whats a "small number" ? and when does that become a "stock pile"

I submit that 500 chemical warheads is far from being a "small number"

 

[Iriemon]

this is how the left continues to change the rules. they say things like "a small number is not a stockpile"

make no mistake, the left doesnt WANT TO BE SPECIFIC. they leave things open ended so they can continue to change the rules.

whats a "small number" ? and when does that become a "stock pile"

I submit that 500 chemical warheads is far from being a "small number"

All I can say is, if we went to war because of the "urgent threat" posed by Hussein's WMDs, which as opposed to hundreds of tons of chem and bio weapons were 500 old forgotten buried degraded gas shells left over from the Iran Iraq war, there was some serious misleading going on about Iraq being an "urgent threat" in my opinion.

 

[ProudAmerican]

All I can say is, if we went to war because of the "urgent threat" posed by Hussein's WMDs,

if that had been the ONLY reason, we might have a discussion. It wasnt, and you know it. Stop insisting this was the only reason.

which as opposed to hundreds of tons of chem and bio weapons were 500 old forgotten buried degraded gas shells left over from the Iran Iraq war

I dont recall ever hearing the president use the term "hundreds of tons"
and the point isnt that they were old, or buried, or from the Iran Iraq war. The point is that they WERE NOT DESTROYED as Saddam claimed and as the UN commanded.

there was some serious misleading going on about Iraq being an "urgent threat" in my opinion.

if so, it was started in 1998 by a democratic administration. wanna see the quotes again? you know, the ones you want to act like dont exist?

 

[Iriemon]

if that had been the ONLY reason, we might have a discussion. It wasnt, and you know it. Stop insisting this was the only reason.

The urgent threat posed by Iraq's WMDs was the reason we went to war. If there was no urgent threat there would have been no basis for the war.

"America will be making only one determination: is Iraq meeting the terms of the Security Council resolution [1441] or not?... If Iraq fails to fully comply, the United States and other nations will disarm Saddam Hussein."— President George W. Bush November 8, 2002.

"The world needs him [Saddam Hussein] to answer a single question: Has the Iraqi regime fully and unconditionally disarmed, as required by Resolution 1441, or has it not?"— President George W. Bush press conference, March 6, 2003

I dont recall ever hearing the president use the term "hundreds of tons"
and the point isnt that they were old, or buried, or from the Iran Iraq war. The point is that they WERE NOT DESTROYED as Saddam claimed and as the UN commanded.

"Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets."
— Secretary of State Colin Powell presentation to the UN Security Council, February 5, 2003

That is the conservative estimate. Maybe he meant "conservative" in the sense of politics as opposed to erring on the side of caution.

"The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax — enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn’t accounted for that material. He’s given no evidence that he has destroyed it. The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin — enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn’t accounted for that material. He’s given no evidence that he has destroyed it. Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He’s not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them."
— President George W. Bush State of the Union speech, January 28, 2003

if so, it was started in 1998 by a democratic administration. wanna see the quotes again? you know, the ones you want to act like dont exist?

I've seen them. What relevance does what people said in 1998 have to March 2003?

 

[easyt65]

A small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions were found, that's all. A small number of old, abandoned munitions is not "stockpiles of WMD". The fact is that we knew Iraq had WMD in the 1980s (the US even sold Iraq materials that were used for developing WMD in the 1980s) but US weapons inspectors concluded that Iraq destroyed its WMD during the 1990s under UN supervision.

PS.

You still haven't provided any proof to back up your claim that Iraq moved its WMD to Syria.

Hey Jackpot, thanks for stepping up to the plate as spokesman for all the Liberals out there and admitting that you were/are all wrong! You said it - we found WMD in Iraq....you were just wrong about the amount. The fact is that we found enough sarin to wipe out NYC. We found Mustard Gas and Sarin, which Saddam Hussein had reported as having been destroyed....which Hans Blix declared to the world had been destroyed because the dictator who raped., tortured, GASSED, and murdered his own people said so!

Well, gee, Jackpot - if it is THAT is what the U.N. inspection teams use as the basis for their investigations, we are all $crewed....because we all saw how reliable the word of a tyranical mad-man dictator is! We found some of the WMD he said he destroyed.

But wait - he now says that 'small' amount is all there is - he destroyed the rest of it! Well, h2lls bells, why didn't ya say so the 1st time! I'm sure you can take his word for it now! Surely he wouldn't lie AGAIN, especially when his @$$ is on trial for crimes like gassing the Kurds that could end in his death sentence!

1st the Dems say Iraq has WMD and call for a regime change. Then we get a GOP President who takes action on something the Dems were only giving lip service to. they then claim Iraq had no WMD, the U.N. Inspections did their job, and all the stuff was destroyed! But wait - we find all this WMD that was NOT destroyed, proving the U.N. Inspectors didn't do their job, was fooled by Hussein, and didn't know cr@p! THEN the Libs say, well the WMD you found was NOT ENOUGH WMD....and that is all there was to find anyway!

Finding the WMD that we did find and have secured has laready proven that YOU guys are parroting poor Hans Blix and Saddam Hussein, that you did not know what the h@ll you were talking about either when you guys said the U.N. Inspectors did their job, that the WMD had been destroyed, and that we can trust hussein and believe that is all there was, that after deceiving the world for over 12 years (with the U.N.'s help) Hussein can be trusted and be believed that he was not hiding anything else! So why in the h@ll should anyone listen to anything else you guys say about what was or is in Iraq?! Hussein made a fool of Hans Blix and all of you already as well as having destroyed your credibility on the subject!

So THANK YOU, again, jackpot, for personally putting an end to the Lib argument that there was NO WMD in Iraq, that the U.N. had done its job, that Hussein destroyed all of his WMD, and that we can sleep safely in our beds from now on believing hussein when he says that WMD we did find was all there is......cross-his heart!

You said it yourself - we found WMD. It had not been destroyed. Blix has no credibility because he said there was no WMD, that all of it had been destroyed. Anyone who says differently now will have to argue with YOU, Iriemon, Hans Blix, and the soldiers who you acknowledge found the WMD!

Have a nice night! :2wave:

 

[Simon W. Moon]

We also have audio tape of Hussein talking to his generals before the war about moving WMD into Syria.

This was a straight up lie when you said it the first time and it is still a straight up lie.
Have you no shame?

Yes, I am am straight up, flat out saying that you are repeating a known lie that you have already been called you on.

 

[Iriemon]

Hey Jackpot, thanks for stepping up to the plate as spokesman for all the Liberals out there and admitting that you were/are all wrong! You said it - we found WMD in Iraq....you were just wrong about the amount. The fact is that we found enough sarin to wipe out NYC. We found Mustard Gas and Sarin, which Saddam Hussein had reported as having been destroyed....which Hans Blix declared to the world had been destroyed because the dictator who raped., tortured, GASSED, and murdered his own people said so!

Well, gee, Jackpot - if it is THAT is what the U.N. inspection teams use as the basis for their investigations, we are all $crewed....because we all saw how reliable the word of a tyranical mad-man dictator is! We found some of the WMD he said he destroyed.

But wait - he now says that 'small' amount is all there is - he destroyed the rest of it! Well, h2lls bells, why didn't ya say so the 1st time! I'm sure you can take his word for it now! Surely he wouldn't lie AGAIN, especially when his @$$ is on trial for crimes like gassing the Kurds that could end in his death sentence!

1st the Dems say Iraq has WMD and call for a regime change. Then we get a GOP President who takes action on something the Dems were only giving lip service to. they then claim Iraq had no WMD, the U.N. Inspections did their job, and all the stuff was destroyed! But wait - we find all this WMD that was NOT destroyed, proving the U.N. Inspectors didn't do their job, was fooled by Hussein, and didn't know cr@p! THEN the Libs say, well the WMD you found was NOT ENOUGH WMD....and that is all there was to find anyway!

Finding the WMD that we did find and have secured has laready proven that YOU guys are parroting poor Hans Blix and Saddam Hussein, that you did not know what the h@ll you were talking about either when you guys said the U.N. Inspectors did their job, that the WMD had been destroyed, and that we can trust hussein and believe that is all there was, that after deceiving the world for over 12 years (with the U.N.'s help) Hussein can be trusted and be believed that he was not hiding anything else! So why in the h@ll should anyone listen to anything else you guys say about what was or is in Iraq?! Hussein made a fool of Hans Blix and all of you already as well as having destroyed your credibility on the subject!

So THANK YOU, again, jackpot, for personally putting an end to the Lib argument that there was NO WMD in Iraq, that the U.N. had done its job, that Hussein destroyed all of his WMD, and that we can sleep safely in our beds from now on believing hussein when he says that WMD we did find was all there is......cross-his heart!

You said it yourself - we found WMD. It had not been destroyed. Blix has no credibility because he said there was no WMD, that all of it had been destroyed. Anyone who says differently now will have to argue with YOU, Iriemon, Hans Blix, and the soldiers who you acknowledge found the WMD!

Have a nice night! :2wave:

Well if we count those 500 leftovers all they need to find is another 15,500 shells and we'd be at Powell's conservative estimate!

 

[Jack Pott]

You said it - we found WMD in Iraq

We found Mustard Gas and Sarin

we find all this WMD that was NOT destroyed

So THANK YOU, again, jackpot, for personally putting an end to the Lib argument that there was NO WMD in Iraq

You said it yourself - we found WMD. It had not been destroyed.

found the WMD!

You are pathetic. Unlike what you claimed in your rant, no one has denied the fact that old abandoned chemical munitions (from the 1980s) were found in Iraq. It was stated very clearly in the ISG report. I cited the report in my original post:

"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter."

Here's the report:

https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5.html#sect0

Is there something you just don't understand?

 

[ProudAmerican]

The urgent threat posed by Iraq's WMDs was the reason we went to war.

nope. it was A reason we went to war.

I've seen them. What relevance does what people said in 1998 have to March 2003?

none, to a partisan. but to anyone with an open mind it shows that the dems thought saddam was just as big a threat as any republican did. the difference is only the republicans had the guts to do something about a problem that BOTH SIDES OF THE ISLE agreed existed.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by ProudAmerican
if that had been the ONLY reason, we might have a discussion. It wasnt, and you know it. Stop insisting this was the only reason.

It's hard to stay current on all the reasons. They change everytime the wind blows.

 

[bismitch]

I dont know about what you guys think, but I think it would be hard as **** to smuggle chemical weapons into the us. It probally would be easier to make the weapons in the us, then to ship already existing ones. The only kind of WMDs that can really effect America in a big way are the biological ones. Hand carried nukes might be a problem, but there arent that many nukes in the world and I dont think many nations would take that risk if they had a nuke.

I dont think that Iraq would use the weapons against another nation, because their *** would be kicked by them. I think that Saddam wouldnt risk his position again after almost losing it.

 

[easyt65]

You are pathetic. Unlike what you claimed in your rant, no one has denied the fact that old abandoned chemical munitions (from the 1980s) were found in Iraq. It was stated very clearly in the ISG report. I cited the report in my original post:



Is there something you just don't understand?

No, but maybe there is something YOU don't understand!

The rabid libs have declared NO WMD in Iraq....and they were proven wrong, as I demonstrated earlier.

The rabid Libs said no WMD existed because Blix said they were all destroyed...and they were proven wrong, as I demonstrated earlier.

NOW the rabid Libs say we should believe that this small amount we did find is all there was, that the Syrians and Iraqis who have come forward to testify that they have personally seen more and know they were moved into Syria, that the tapes we have of Hussein himself talking about moving WMD into Syria pre-war should all be ignored as lies JUST because they can not substantiate the claims...just as they could not substantiate their own claim that all the WMD had been destroyed. Everything - all the 'absolutes' the Libs have claimed about WMD have been proven FALSE.....

so why in the HE!! should we believe them NOW?

 

[Jack Pott]

The rabid Libs said no WMD existed because Blix said they were all destroyed...and they were proven wrong, as I demonstrated earlier.

Wrong again. Unlike what you keep claiming in your rants, no one has denied the fact that a small number of old abandoned chemical munitions (from the 1980s) were found in Iraq. It was stated very clearly in the ISG report:

"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter."

https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq...ap5.html#sect0

Is there something you just don't understand?

 

[ProudAmerican]

Is there something you just don't understand?

yes. I dont understand how people can be so blinded by partisan politics.

that I will never understand.

 

[Jack Pott]

yes. I dont understand how people can be so blinded by partisan politics.

You're the one who's been blinded by partisan politics. You keep claiming that there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda despite the fact that the report by the 9/11 Commission and the new Senate report DEBUNKED the claim that there was a collaborative operational relationship between the two.

You refuse to accept the fact that the Bush administration misled Americans into war by distorting intelligence because you are blinded by partisan politics...

 

[ProudAmerican]

You're the one who's been blinded by partisan politics. You keep claiming that there was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda despite the fact that the report by the 9/11 Commission and the new Senate report DEBUNKED the claim that there was a collaborative operational relationship between the two.

You refuse to accept the fact that the Bush administration misled Americans into war by distorting intelligence because you are blinded by partisan politics...

nope.

The 9/11 commission admitted a relationship between the two. and we are fighting them there now. thats the bottom line.

I have numerous quotes from Democrats proving they believed the same thing Bush believed all the way back to 1998.

I would support this mission even if Clinton were in charge.

So theres no partisanship here my friend. none at all.

 

[Jack Pott]

nope.

The 9/11 commission admitted a relationship between the two.

Do you know the difference between "contacts" and "collaborative operational relationship"?

We know that bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq" while he was in Sudan in the 1990s (Iraq never responded to a bin Laden request for help in 1994, according to the report by the 9/11 Commission) and there were reports of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda after bin Laden went to Afghanistan in 1996, but the 9/11 Commission concluded that "they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship".

 

[Jack Pott]

nope.
I have numerous quotes from Democrats proving they believed the same thing Bush believed all the way back to 1998.

The difference between the Clinton administration and the Bush administration is that the Bush administration knew the evidence concerning Iraq's alleged WMD and ties to al Qaeda was weak. The Bush administration misled the Congress and the American people by presenting conjecture as evidence:


Iraq's Alleged Al-Qaeda Ties Were Disputed Before War

September 9, 2006

A declassified report released yesterday by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence revealed that U.S. intelligence analysts were strongly disputing the alleged links between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda while senior Bush administration officials were publicly asserting those links to justify invading Iraq:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...6/09/08/AR2006090800777.html?nav=rss_politics

 

[ProudAmerican]

Do you know the difference between "contacts" and "collaborative operational relationship"?

absolutely....and since I have never once claimed they had a "collaborative operational relaitionship" we dont have much to debate there.

 

[ProudAmerican]

The difference between the Clinton administration and the Bush administration is that the Bush administration knew the evidence concerning Iraq's alleged WMD and ties to al Qaeda was weak. The Bush administration misled the Congress and the American people by presenting conjecture as evidence:

damn you are funny.

thats just good stuff right there.

so what you are saying is that when Clinton said it, he thought it was genuine, but when Bush said it, he knew it was a lie.

damn....thats partisan hack nonsense at its finest right there.

not to mention that Bush actually GOT IT RIGHT since we have found WMDs.

you keep forgettint that part.

 

[easyt65]

This was a straight up lie when you said it the first time and it is still a straight up lie.
Have you no shame?

Yes, I am am straight up, flat out saying that you are repeating a known lie that you have already been called you on.

Check out the many links that have been posted on this board to the tapes and the interpretor declaring/telling the story!

 

[Jack Pott]

I have never once claimed they had a "collaborative operational relaitionship"

Oh?

there is plenty of evidence to suggest there was an Iraq / AQ link.

You do realize that there's no evidence of a link between Iraq and al Qaeda, right?

REMINDER:

Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed

Thursday, June 17, 2004

The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq

The staff report said that bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq" while in Sudan through 1996, but that "Iraq apparently never responded" to a bin Laden request for help in 1994. The commission cited reports of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda after bin Laden went to Afghanistan in 1996, adding, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html

 

[easyt65]

You are pathetic. Unlike what you claimed in your rant, no one has denied the fact that old abandoned chemical munitions (from the 1980s) were found in Iraq.

Thank you again for helping my point by admitting the Libs were WRONG when they initially said there were no WMD in Iraq, BEFORE being proven wrong and BEFORE they changed their chant to 'Not ENOUGH WMD found in Iraq', 'That is all there is/was to find', Hussein did not have any MORE WMD'!

Libs have posted on this board that Hussein did not have ANY WMD in Iraq when we went in.
Libs have posted on this board that there were no WMD in Iraq because hans Blix sid so....BEFORE they and Hans Blix were proven to be clueless by finding that WMD reported to have been destroyed.

As I said, hose accusations have been proven false, those making those claims proven WRONG....but NOW they want us to believe that the WMD that was found was all there is BECAUSE THEY SAY SO yet demand we discard the testimonyof Iraqi generals, syrians, and others who say they saw more and ask us to believe them because THEY say so.

So far, the Iraqis and surians who said Hussein did not destroy all of his WMD and actually had WMD when we went in have been proven to be correct while the Libs who swore there were no WMD (on the word of hans Blix and Hussein) have been proven to be completely WRONG!

So, AGAIN, why the HE!! should we listen to the Libs who are so rabidly against Bush and the war that, even in the face of being proven wrong, they are STILL declaring the 'absolute' that there is NO WAY there are any more WMD! If I recall, that is what they were saying BEFORE we found the WMD that was NOT destroyed, as they had claimed!